I took the Stella out on a group ride through canyons and passes, the Simi Valley, and into the mountains. We headed to the town of Santa Paula, home of the California Oil Museum, which is hosting an exhibit of vintage Honda motorcycles.
The Stella performed like a champ on the ride up, keeping up with the group and handling tight curves with ease. On the way back, we decided to take the 126, a 4-lane highway (not freeway, which is much different in CA) with posted speed limits of 55-60mph. The slowest scoots on the ride were the Stella, a Rattler and Vespa VBB with a P200 engine in it. Truth be told, I was a bit concerned but the plan was to put the three of us in front and let us maintain the pace.
Honestly, I could have been anywhere in the pack. I'm happy to report the Stella ably maintained top speeds of 55-65mph the whole way, mostly in the 55-60mph range. Top speed for the day, about 65 indicated, which I hit a few times. Not bad at all!
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
I have not. The one time I tracked it, I did so by using Google maps to figure out my distance since I knew exactly where I'd ridden since filling up. I got close to 120mpg the previous day, which was a rally.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
ericalm wrote:I kind of am, too. Not with the whitewalls. Probably going to through some Zippys or Michelins on them.
I love my micheline S83s. They arn't the most attractive tire but they do great in the wet and the tread looks brand new with 2k on them. I do have to say that I think the thread being rather agressive hurts the top end though. Its a decent trade being as I ride the buddy in all kinds of crap weather I probably shouldn't I'm currently looking for some better tires for winter weather, not so much ice (can't find studded tires in buddy 50 size) but something that has a cold weather compound.
"Only the curious have, if they live, a tale worth telling at all" Alastair Reid
JoshWED wrote:@eric: how long did you have her going at 55?
i always wonder how to gauge engine temperature...any clues you use besides smell?
Hour or more. We did pull over a couple times to let the pokey people catch up. Someone else's scooter was making the hot scooter smell, but not mine.
anyone else use anything besides the "hot scooter smell"? when I used to beat the shit out of my 50cc i became well quite familiar with that smell, but was wondering if there is a better method.
I'm still trying to figure out what brand of whitewalls I should substitute for the Savas when my 4T finally gets here. I was looking at the Primas, but I now see that the Scooterworks website says they won't work on the back for the Stella 4T. Doesn't say why, but I presume they must rub. Anybody know?
Any other quality whitewalls that will fit? I think the Contis require tubes. How about Maxxis? The dealer suggested Shinkos, but I've seen some fairly negative comments about them on here. There don't seem to be any other alternatives for whitewalls.
jmkjr72 wrote:
infact i have 2 on my stella an analog one and a digtal one
from what i understand, you anchor them under your spark plug? how do you have two installed? any problems with the spark plug and/or gauge sender breaking due to vibration?
there are several types yes most have a ring under the spark plug and wires that run out from it
how do i have 2 installed well only one is runing at a time i have yet to slpit the signal i put the digital one on as i have some questions about the acuracy of the cheap analog one i installed and running the digital has confirmed that the cheap analog one is way out of calibration
i have made a special ring where i have the wires for bith sodered to the ring that goes under the plug
the only time i have broken the wires was when i wasnt pataing attention when i cahnged the plug but have sense changed the routing of the wores where the ring doesnt come off then i change the plug
Silver Streak wrote:Any other quality whitewalls that will fit? I think the Contis require tubes. How about Maxxis? The dealer suggested Shinkos, but I've seen some fairly negative comments about them on here. There don't seem to be any other alternatives for whitewalls.
you know the stella has split rims so it needs a tube tire right
stay far far away from the shinkos they are worthless
I had already put the Shinko whitewalls on my Stella before it broke down. I did not expect to do a lot of riding on such an ancient scooter, and I bought the Stella mainly for looks and it's mechanical simplicity, including the 2T engine, which lasted a total of 389 miles. I have ordered a new cylinder, piston, rings, and base gasket, and hope to have it running again soon. After that, I will probably sell it. Another local Genuine dealer (not the one I bought the Stella from) is prepping a Blackjack for me right now. The OTD price is almost exactly what I paid for the Stella. I am going to loose a lot of money, but I wish I had bought the Blackjack to begin with. I had a chat with BoneGirl, and am convinced the Blackjack will hold up. Jerry.
Thanks, everybody. Apparently there must be some clearance difference at the rear between the 2T and 4T Stellas, as Scooterworks says the Prima whitewalls will work on 2T Stellas and on the front of 4T Stellas, but not at the rear on 4Ts. Go figure!
Silver Streak wrote:Thanks, everybody. Apparently there must be some clearance difference at the rear between the 2T and 4T Stellas, as Scooterworks says the Prima whitewalls will work on 2T Stellas and on the front of 4T Stellas, but not at the rear on 4Ts. Go figure!
I think this is due to the size of the rear shock on the 4T.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
JunkyardDog wrote:I had already put the Shinko whitewalls on my Stella before it broke down. I did not expect to do a lot of riding on such an ancient scooter, and I bought the Stella mainly for looks and it's mechanical simplicity, including the 2T engine, which lasted a total of 389 miles. I have ordered a new cylinder, piston, rings, and base gasket, and hope to have it running again soon. After that, I will probably sell it. Another local Genuine dealer (not the one I bought the Stella from) is prepping a Blackjack for me right now. The OTD price is almost exactly what I paid for the Stella. I am going to loose a lot of money, but I wish I had bought the Blackjack to begin with. I had a chat with BoneGirl, and am convinced the Blackjack will hold up. Jerry.
What was wrong with the Stella? As has been said in other threads, whatever happened in your case isn't a prevalent or common problem with the 2Ts in general. You've mentioned several times that the engine failed. Why not bring it back to the dealer? It should be under warranty. You should not have to order parts. If the Stella was that bad, you may even be covered by your state's lemon laws.
Nothing personal, but the story has a lot of holes. I've asked these questions before; without answers, I think you're unfairly casting the Stella in a negative light.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
My Stella turned out to have 2 broken rings, apparently due to them catching on the exhaust port, as it also showed damage. Both the piston and cylinder were badly scored, the cylinder was damaged beyond repair. I am replacing the cylinder, base gasket, piston, rings, wrist pin, and circlips. I am also going to chamfer the ports of the new cylinder before putting it all back together. It looks like a case of very poor workmanship to me, which I do not find surprising, considering where the Stella is made. The Royal Enfield motorcycle is also made in India, and you will hear stories of people who have ridden them around the world, you will also hear stories of new owners who never made it home from the dealer.
I do not doubt that many Stellas have accumulated very high mileage without serious problems, but there are also many Stellas that had serious engine failures at very low mileage. That indicates a serious lack of consistency in workmanship to me.
I have studied the Stella's engine design, and cannot find any reason why it would not be reliable if properly built out of high quality materials. I do not believe Stella engine failures are a design problem, I believe they are a problem with materials and workmanship. India is after all a third world country.
The same issues affect all Chinese built scooters. The GY6 is a good solid reliable design, but the Chinese do not build it right. They use poor quality materials and workmanship, which is why most Chinese scooters fall apart right away, and it is that reason they have the bad reputation they currently do. Honda could build a GY6 that would last forever.
I am concerned about the new 4T Stella, for a couple of reasons. If it is being built by LML, I have no reason to believe the quality will be any better than the 2T, and a 4T has a lot more to go wrong. If it is a copy of the Bajaj 4T, then it is also a good design, how it holds up will depend on how well it was built, and the quality of the materials it is built out of.
Apparently the reason you cannot yet buy a 4T Stella is because LML did not build the new engine to Genuine's specs, and that is not good. I can't help but wonder if Genuine had anything to do with the specs of the Stella 2T engine. Aside from the engine, and the electrical components, especially switches, the Stella is a good solid scooter, though not nearly as slickly finished as the scooters coming from Taiwan, and Vespa's new scooters. The fit and finish leave a lot to be desired, but that is part of it's charm. All old vehicles have this issue, including my mid '60s car and truck, but they are solid, built out of heavy steel, and though their engines are an ancient design, they do not break down.
If I wind up keeping the Stella, I will build a new engine for it, from the ground up, and I will build it right. If I run into anything that I am not satisfied with, I will know it, and find a way to make it right.
The Stella is what it is, but IMO, that does not mean it can't be made better. Jerry.
Silver Streak wrote:Thanks, everybody. Apparently there must be some clearance difference at the rear between the 2T and 4T Stellas, as Scooterworks says the Prima whitewalls will work on 2T Stellas and on the front of 4T Stellas, but not at the rear on 4Ts. Go figure!
I think this is due to the size of the rear shock on the 4T.
What happened? Last time I heard Scooterworks said the Primas would not work on the 2T.
226 Vintage Hot Wing, GGR Hot Reeds, Mazzy Race Cut Crank, P200 filter, 128 Main, BJ Stack, Trailtech CHT
Ericalm, it's great to hear the 4T runs like a beast in the upper 50's. I look forward to more reports!
JunkyardDog, sorry about your luck. Did you buy new? If so, why not put in for warranty repair, especially if you intend to sell it as soon as it is up and running?
not to sure abt maxxis w/w fitting. I got some for my chetak and it rubbed ever so lightly in the rear. Some say to use washers and move the wheel out, my maxxis are shelved for now. BTW im getting a blackjack to go with the tires. I would try mount old throw away to double check b4buying new ones
JunkyardDog wrote:
Apparently the reason you cannot yet buy a 4T Stella is because LML did not build the new engine to Genuine's specs, and that is not good. I can't help but wonder if Genuine had anything to do with the specs of the Stella 2T engine.
Not quite that scientific.
Actually another member has ferreted out the actual reason for the delay: a sticker made on the wrong type of material (supposed to self destruct when attempting to peel it off...did not) and a missing droplet of glue to secure a carburetor screw.
JunkyardDog wrote:
Apparently the reason you cannot yet buy a 4T Stella is because LML did not build the new engine to Genuine's specs, and that is not good. I can't help but wonder if Genuine had anything to do with the specs of the Stella 2T engine.
Not quite that scientific.
Actually another member has ferreted out the actual reason for the delay: a sticker made on the wrong type of material (supposed to self destruct when attempting to peel it off...did not) and a missing droplet of glue to secure a carburetor screw.
Things are rarely as dismal as some may think....
And Genuine already said the "faults" had nothing to do with anything mechanical or polution control related. Meaning the specs of the engine were perfect, and they were simply being anal retentive. Oh, and since they were able to determine... aka, access... both the stickers and the carbs, to determine these "faults", I don't see why they couldn't just replace the stickers and add a drop of epoxy to the screw. Yes, I know people said it would be a mess to uncrate and recrate (or whatever) all those scoots, but, like I said, if the inspectors were able to reach and inspect those areas, it should have been a simple thing to send off for new stickers, and to buy and use some epoxy, without the need to ship all the scoots back to India. So I would think...
Roose Hurro wrote:
And Genuine already said the "faults" had nothing to do with anything mechanical or polution control related. Meaning the specs of the engine were perfect, and they were simply being anal retentive. Oh, and since they were able to determine... aka, access... both the stickers and the carbs, to determine these "faults", I don't see why they couldn't just replace the stickers and add a drop of epoxy to the screw. Yes, I know people said it would be a mess to uncrate and recrate (or whatever) all those scoots, but, like I said, if the inspectors were able to reach and inspect those areas, it should have been a simple thing to send off for new stickers, and to buy and use some epoxy, without the need to ship all the scoots back to India. So I would think...
That would definitely be the common sense approach, but I don't think common sense was permitted.
If I'm not mistaken, I don't believe the importer has legal access to any goods impounded by US Customs. If you don't have access. you can't make even simple corrections.
Silver Streak wrote:That would definitely be the common sense approach, but I don't think common sense was permitted.
If I'm not mistaken, I don't believe the importer has legal access to any goods impounded by US Customs. If you don't have access. you can't make even simple corrections.
If so, why couldn't Customs perform the changes, or bring someone in who could? (Like the EPA...)
Silver Streak wrote:That would definitely be the common sense approach, but I don't think common sense was permitted.
If I'm not mistaken, I don't believe the importer has legal access to any goods impounded by US Customs. If you don't have access. you can't make even simple corrections.
If so, why couldn't Customs perform the changes, or bring someone in who could? (Like the EPA...)
Being a federal retiree myself who dealt for a while with importation of electronic devices that had to comply with FCC regulations, I can definitely tell you that taxpayer resources would never be spent to make something legal that was illegally imported in the eyes of the Feds. That would be like expecting the State Police to pay the fees to get your car properly registered if you were caught driving on expired tags. Illegally imported and impounded electronic devices were often simply destroyed back when I was involved.
I am surprised, though, considering the easy correctability of the minor infractions involved here, that Genuine was unable to negotiate something with Customs and EPA. I'd wager that if they'd hired a K Street attorney knowledgeable in such matters, they never would have had to send the scooters back to India and would have been given some way to make the changes.
Unless, that is, Customs was trying to make an example of them as part of a crackdown.
Silver Streak wrote:Being a federal retiree myself who dealt for a while with importation of electronic devices that had to comply with FCC regulations, I can definitely tell you that taxpayer resources would never be spent to make something legal that was illegally imported in the eyes of the Feds. That would be like expecting the State Police to pay the fees to get your car properly registered if you were caught driving on expired tags. Illegally imported and impounded electronic devices were often simply destroyed back when I was involved.
I am surprised, though, considering the easy correctability of the minor infractions involved here, that Genuine was unable to negotiate something with Customs and EPA. I'd wager that if they'd hired a K Street attorney knowledgeable in such matters, they never would have had to send the scooters back to India and would have been given some way to make the changes.
Unless, that is, Customs was trying to make an example of them as part of a crackdown.
That's always a possibility... and thanks for the info.
Silver Streak wrote:Being a federal retiree myself who dealt for a while with importation of electronic devices that had to comply with FCC regulations, I can definitely tell you that taxpayer resources would never be spent to make something legal that was illegally imported in the eyes of the Feds. That would be like expecting the State Police to pay the fees to get your car properly registered if you were caught driving on expired tags. Illegally imported and impounded electronic devices were often simply destroyed back when I was involved.
I am surprised, though, considering the easy correctability of the minor infractions involved here, that Genuine was unable to negotiate something with Customs and EPA. I'd wager that if they'd hired a K Street attorney knowledgeable in such matters, they never would have had to send the scooters back to India and would have been given some way to make the changes.
Unless, that is, Customs was trying to make an example of them as part of a crackdown.
That's always a possibility... and thanks for the info.
Roose Hurro wrote:And Genuine already said the "faults" had nothing to do with anything mechanical or polution control related. Meaning the specs of the engine were perfect, and they were simply being anal retentive. Oh, and since they were able to determine... aka, access... both the stickers and the carbs, to determine these "faults", I don't see why they couldn't just replace the stickers and add a drop of epoxy to the screw. Yes, I know people said it would be a mess to uncrate and recrate (or whatever) all those scoots, but, like I said, if the inspectors were able to reach and inspect those areas, it should have been a simple thing to send off for new stickers, and to buy and use some epoxy, without the need to ship all the scoots back to India. So I would think...
It's really not a matter of what we think is easiest, most common sense, or most convenient. Folks, we're dealing with government bureaucracy here.
As has been said in other threads, it's possible the EPA and Customs would not permit Genuine to access and correct the scooters.
We now know why the scoots were detained. Some folks had made what we now know were a lot of incorrect and wild assumptions. With what we know now, it's probably best if we stick to what we know or what we have actual information about.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
It's good to know the problems were not serious. But I would still take a 2T over a 4T anyday. First I am a 2T fan from age 8, (43 years) second, a 2T can be rebuilt a LOT cheaper than a 4T, and for those so inclined, also has a lot more performance potential. Damned EPA. Jerry.
ericalm wrote:What was wrong with the Stella? As has been said in other threads, whatever happened in your case isn't a prevalent or common problem with the 2Ts in general. You've mentioned several times that the engine failed. Why not bring it back to the dealer? It should be under warranty. You should not have to order parts. If the Stella was that bad, you may even be covered by your state's lemon laws.
JunkyardDog wrote:My Stella turned out to have 2 broken rings, apparently due to them catching on the exhaust port, as it also showed damage. Both the piston and cylinder were badly scored, the cylinder was damaged beyond repair. I am replacing the cylinder, base gasket, piston, rings, wrist pin, and circlips. I am also going to chamfer the ports of the new cylinder before putting it all back together. It looks like a case of very poor workmanship to me, which I do not find surprising, considering where the Stella is made.
So what is the rest of the story? New scooter with serious mechanical defect. What happened when you tried to get it repaired under warranty. All of us are certainly interested in how Genuine handles warranty issues when a scooter has a major problem.
JunkyardDog wrote:My Stella turned out to have 2 broken rings, apparently due to them catching on the exhaust port, as it also showed damage. Both the piston and cylinder were badly scored, the cylinder was damaged beyond repair. I am replacing the cylinder, base gasket, piston, rings, wrist pin, and circlips. I am also going to chamfer the ports of the new cylinder before putting it all back together. It looks like a case of very poor workmanship to me, which I do not find surprising, considering where the Stella is made.
So what is the rest of the story? New scooter with serious mechanical defect. What happened when you tried to get it repaired under warranty. All of us are certainly interested in how Genuine handles warranty issues when a scooter has a major problem.
junkyard dog didnt want the dealer wrenching on it so he didnt take it in or make a warranty claim
i have seen the crank issue handled 2 diffrent ways
1 they rebuild the engine for you and the other is genuine sends your dealer a new engine to put in your scoot
one bit of advice i have is if you want to upgrade your crank make sure your dealer files the warranty claim before you order your new crank if you get it fromscooter works
