Dreaming of the Stella

[Thadsgood]

Yes, if you want a scooter mainly for looks get the Stella, if you want it to run, get the buddy (or a modern vespa). I've had the good fortune to have both. I have my reliable daily scooter and if I want to be in a parade I've got the Stella!

[squidsie]

Hello! I went to a scooter shop this afternoon, for my first time! I got to see the Stella and a Buddy 170i!!! I was in heaven just looking at all their little details!

I have to say that the Stella is a lot heavier than I had imagined! Although I did not get to sit on the Buddy 170i it seemed a lot smaller in size. I liked the Buddy more than I expected to. I like the fact that it has both the little glove compartment, underseat storage, and 12 Volt.

So now I feel more unsure then I did before. I probably wont buy for another 6 months so I definitely have some time to think about it. I was hoping that someone could explain the "fuel injection" feature that is only on the Buddy 170i. Also, does anyone own the Buddy International (i love the looks of those!). If going for the Buddy, which would be better?

Thanks to everyone who has responded!

[Southerner]

Just about everything is going to fuel injection instead of an old-school carburetor. It's more precise, which means it can pass clean air regs easier. For the user, the benefit is that the bike doesn't need a choke and doesn't have to "warm up" like a carbureted bike.
Some old cranks will prefer the carb because they know how to work on it if need be and can adjust it. For most of us who keep our hands off the internal workings, it makes no difference.

I don't consider having either one a dealbreaker where a choice is concerned, though.

[Ethan Allison]

You can't kickstart an injected engine so you should make sure to get a battery tester/maintainer. Smaller engines have way smaller battery charging systems (compared to size) so it can take something like 10 minutes to fully charge after a start.

[Southerner]

I don't really miss the kicker since my last 3 MCs didn't have one either, but you can't "bump-start" a CVT machine either (can you?) so the battery condition is a big consideration. I know on the PC800 group I'm on, one regular topic of discussion is attaching a battery meter. Don't recall it ever being mentioned in scooter forums.

[desmolicious]

I have to say that the Stella is a lot heavier than I had imagined!

Before you do anything, take the CA MSF course. I know this has been mentioned before.
The Stella really is a light bike. Taking the course will give you a much better understanding of the dynamics and may make you reconsider how you look at ANY of these bikes.

[noodoggy]

I have to say that the Stella is a lot heavier than I had imagined!

Before you do anything, take the CA MSF course. I know this has been mentioned before.
The Stella really is a light bike. Taking the course will give you a much better understanding of the dynamics and may make you reconsider how you look at ANY of these bikes.

The stella really isnt that heavy. But I definitely agree with desmo...take the course. if i hadnt taken the course i wouldnt feel as comfortable on the stella as i do already. it's made a huge difference. and I finally got to ride it today! it was so much fun...still gotta practice the shifting, esp not popping out the clutch. but it was fun to zip along, even though I am shifting early b/c its still in the break in period. oh well...guess i have to ride it alot to get out of the break in period and then i can really have fun! lol

[Southerner]

Genuine's spec sheets aren't what I would call replete with info, but I read that the Stella weighs about 240 pounds. For comparison, a Buddy weighs about 225 pounds. I say "about" because there are different versions of the Buddy and there are the 4 stroke and 2-stroke versions of the Stella. That last won't be able to buy, at least not new, in Cali, anyway, not that I would advise it for a newb, anyway.

This get back to what I was saying about shopping around before you settle. Not only is it fun, it gives you at least a somewhat basis for comparison.

This is a good thread, BTW. I've enjoyed learning myself about the differences between these two machines.

[Keith]

For whatever it's worth, if I had to sell one of my scooters it would be the Grand Vista. Don't get me wrong. I love the Grand Vista but Stella is clearly the other women in my life......Shhhhhhh, don't tell my darling bride.

[Southerner]

Yeah, I have a thing for Stella myself. I keep trying to rationalize it as being more practical for me than it is, but it really needs to be capable of about 10-15 more mph at a steady cruise to fit my needs.

Rats!

[viney266]

^^^ Do the modifications to make it faster...If its a 2 stroke stella anyway...LOTS of options. Just a pipe and carb on the stock cylinder make a huge difference.

[Southerner]

A 2t would be no problem for me. Heck, I've still got a mixer dirt bike.

Assuming I did these mods, what kind of performance could I expect?

[supermach]

Get a buddy 125. I have both the stella 4 t and the buddy italia 125. Get the buddy. Get the buddy.

Why do you suggest the Buddy?

On the buddy you should learn everything you need to know. The stella is alittle bit of a hard/diffent drive then normal scooters... Well the best way to put it is get the buddy learn drop it if needed and then get the stella... I'm happy the stella wasn't my first scooter it's my 3th.

[viney266]

A 2t would be no problem for me. Heck, I've still got a mixer dirt bike.

Assuming I did these mods, what kind of performance could I expect?

^^^ Gonna bounce up 1-2 HP with just a good pipe or carb, most see about 2. Doesn't sound like much, but going from 9 to 11 is a BIG DEAL...and there are always big bore kits too. Going to wait till my top end gets tired before I do that. Then you can see 14+ HP easy.

The biggest difference on the 2t stella is you can hold 4th gear comfortably up hills and use the nice fat midrange...look up SIP road or sito plus for a good stock looking exhaust. But they are louder (but not obnoxious )...there are tonnes of options, but I like keeping it "stockish"...

I have yet to ride a 4t stella...I look fwd to it.

[squidsie]

When I finally buy my scooter I plan to have it for a while. I also probably won't ever have more thAn one scooter at a time. That's why I'm continuing to do my homework. A 15-20 pound difference in the weight is a big differrence. I am 5'4" and want to be comfortble. I was definitely on my tippy toes when sitting on the Stella. Can't wait to sit on a Buddy someday to feel it's weight and the difference.

[Southerner]

I have to say, they first time I went to the now-defunct scooter shop here in town, I was surprised at the seat heights of a lot of scooters. For traditional scoots, it seems to hover in the 28 to 31 inch range. For comparison, 31 inches is the seat height of my 800cc Honda. Cruiser bikes can have heights as low as 26 inches. Maxi scooters also seem to have low seats relative to other scoots. Go figure.

I guess it has to do with the location of the engine, sometimes the fuel tank, and also any underseat storage. Something's gotta give somewhere.

Of course, seat height is not the lone determinant of comfortable stance. The seat width is also a factor.

[desmolicious]

A 2t would be no problem for me. Heck, I've still got a mixer dirt bike.

Assuming I did these mods, what kind of performance could I expect?

A top speed of maybe 60mph

[Keith]

A 2t would be no problem for me. Heck, I've still got a mixer dirt bike.
Assuming I did these mods, what kind of performance could I expect?

Faster than you'll want to go on that light weight small wheel Stella. I did the Sito+ pipe, Mazz Crank and tweaked the carb on my 2T. She'll do 60+ but by the time I hit 55 I'm feeling a little uncomfortable. My thought with respect to feeling comfortable is that if you aren't feeling that way you're probably beyond your skill set and starting to put yourself in danger. In my opinion, giving the Stella a boost is fine but you do need to remember what it was built for. That's why I eventually added the Grand Vista to the collection for greater speed, highway driving, and stability.

[neotrotsky]

A 2t would be no problem for me. Heck, I've still got a mixer dirt bike.

Assuming I did these mods, what kind of performance could I expect?

A top speed of maybe 60mph

My p200e Vespa has the largest carb and bore made for a vintage scooter and 65 is about the best it has. You have to remember that when yoy modifiy a two stroke scooter, top speed is a secondary result. All of the mods out there help get you faster acceleration and better torque throughout the entire range. Like mentioned before, you may not see a huge bump in your top end. But in traffic and acceleration will seem like a different beast

[Southerner]

For city traffic, that's a definite plus.
In my case, being miles from town, a bit higher cruising speed would be a bigger priority. Guess I'm barking up the wrong tree.

[neotrotsky]

For city traffic, that's a definite plus.
In my case, being miles from town, a bit higher cruising speed would be a bigger priority. Guess I'm barking up the wrong tree.

Much of your top speed is limited by gearing, and going faster means that the engine is spinning faster which means more wear. Honestly a 150cc largeframe is good for about 60-65 perhaps tops. You hear about crazy modders on custom Vespa P200's getting 80mph+, but those are VERY overbuilt machines costing anywhere from 5 to 7 grand and are NOT daily drivers.

[Southerner]

I've got a book here on modifying Harley Sportsters, in which the author makes the statement that the life of a racing engine is measured in hours, not years. No, I like my bikes understressed. and over-engineered.

I imagine something with taller wheels might be better as well.

[neotrotsky]

I've got a book here on modifying Harley Sportsters, in which the author makes the statement that the life of a racing engine is measured in hours, not years. No, I like my bikes understressed. and over-engineered.

I imagine something with taller wheels might be better as well.

The size of the wheels helps with stability yes, but the only scooters you'll find with larger wheels are the Kymcos, Hondas and Aprilias. All of which are very nice bikes but, aside from the Kymcos, cost quite a bit more. And, they are modern auto shifters and just aren't the same kind of bike

[Silver Streak]

I've got a book here on modifying Harley Sportsters, in which the author makes the statement that the life of a racing engine is measured in hours, not years. No, I like my bikes understressed. and over-engineered.

I imagine something with taller wheels might be better as well.

The Stella 4T engine is about the most understressed motor you'll find anywhere.

It could do with just a little bit of stressing.

[desmolicious]

The Stella 4T engine is about the most understressed motor you'll find anywhere.

How do you know this? I'm curious as I don't know.

[Silver Streak]

The Stella 4T engine is about the most understressed motor you'll find anywhere.

How do you know this? I'm curious as I don't know.

Low compression ratio and inability to rev high due to breathing restrictions from emission controls. It just runs out of air before it can do any harm to itself.

Much more like a farm tractor than a modern motorcycle engine.

[Southerner]

You're saying it's designed to be asthmatic?

In any case, there's still that inverse relationship between performance and reliability.

[viney266]

^^^ True ...to a point...But if you do a pipe and intake that works better on your gas powered air pump, it just becomes more efficient without working harder...You only get 1-3 HP instead of 10, but I would argue that a good pipe and a carb would not wear a stella any more than stock...

Now a 180 screamer making 20 HP? Yeah thats gonna wear

[Silver Streak]

You're saying it's designed to be asthmatic?

Essentially, yes... not to deliberately limit performance, but because it is one way to keep emissions in check.

In any case, there's still that inverse relationship between performance and reliability.

To some extent, but not always... if the good engineering and metallurgy are there to support the performance potential. You can get good reliably cheaply by limiting the performance, but you can also go the more expensive route and engineer the design for good performance and still get good reliability.

I beat the piss outta my good ol' Miata for 267,000 miles, and the engine was still like new when I finally got rid of it. It wasn't exactly a race engine, but it had considerably higher output/liter than a Stella.

I agree with Viney... you could easily get 25% more horsepower out of a Stella 4T without adversely affecting the reliability.

[Southerner]

Actually, I was making a weak attempt at a joke but I wouldn't have any qualms about de-restricting both the intake and exhaust ends. That's in what Harley calls "Stage One." I expect a big bore kit in a mild state of tune would work as well albeit more expensively. It's a kind of "have your cake and eat it too" situation. I like the idea of the classic metal scoot and combined with some more usable "oomf", it would be irrestible.

[desmolicious]

I rode a Stella 4T at Rte 6 MC (Marina Del Rey).
It had a pipe, some carb work and whatever that big bire kit is.
Really did not notice much difference apart from sound compared to my stock Stella..

[Silver Streak]

I rode a Stella 4T at Rte 6 MC (Marina Del Rey).
It had a pipe, some carb work and whatever that big bire kit is.
Really did not notice much difference apart from sound compared to my stock Stella..

As I've said before, all the mods in the world won't necessarily make an improvement if done in an uninformed way. The scooter could have been running way rich or way lean, which would negate any improvement from the mods. Too big a carb for the engine can also make performance worse.

I plan to do all these things to my 4T in the spring, and I'll document the performance changes with some timed 0 - 40 runs and two-way top speed runs.

[ericalm]

I rode a Stella 4T at Rte 6 MC (Marina Del Rey).
It had a pipe, some carb work and whatever that big bire kit is.
Really did not notice much difference apart from sound compared to my stock Stella..

As I've said before, all the mods in the world won't necessarily make an improvement if done in an uninformed way. The scooter could have been running way rich or way lean, which would negate any improvement from the mods. Too big a carb for the engine can also make performance worse.

I plan to do all these things to my 4T in the spring, and I'll document the performance changes with some timed 0 - 40 runs and two-way top speed runs.

I'm a firm believer in doing these kinds of mods incrementally rather than all at once. It helps track down where something may be off or maladjusted and you can get a better idea of the performance benefits of each part.

[Southerner]

But wouldn't you say that a newer, less restrictive pipe should be accompanied by a free-er flowing intake side? The pipe won't be able to do much good if the carb is still smotheringly restrictive. At least some sort of air cleaner mod would be in order, I think.

[desmolicious]

But wouldn't you say that a newer, less restrictive pipe should be accompanied by a free-er flowing intake side? The pipe won't be able to do much good if the carb is still smotheringly restrictive. At least some sort of air cleaner mod would be in order, I think.

How would you mod the air filter/intake?
You seen where it is, hidden in the 'bowels' of the bike?

[Southerner]

I was just thinking generally. I just assumed there was some sort of mod available. I guess you could figure a way to get one of those Screamin' Eagle air cleaners to work.

[viney266]

I'm a firm believer in doing these kinds of mods incrementally rather than all at once. It helps track down where something may be off or maladjusted and you can get a better idea of the performance benefits of each part.

^^^ Agreed, its tough to "iron out" problems when you have changed 3 or 4 things at once...Sometimes you need to, like big bore kits, but keep it to a minimum at one time:)

[Silver Streak]

I'm a firm believer in doing these kinds of mods incrementally rather than all at once. It helps track down where something may be off or maladjusted and you can get a better idea of the performance benefits of each part.

^^^ Agreed, its tough to "iron out" problems when you have changed 3 or 4 things at once...Sometimes you need to, like big bore kits, but keep it to a minimum at one time:)

I'm generally in agreement with Eric, for exactly the reasons he stated. However, with the big bore kit, better breathing is likely necessary to see much improvement other than raw low-end torque.

When I do mine, I'll probably install just the kit first, do a performance check, and then install the pipe and carb at the same time. Installing one without the other just means more work, as the jetting on the carb will likely have to be determined through trial and error depending on which pipe is on there.

[Silver Streak]

But wouldn't you say that a newer, less restrictive pipe should be accompanied by a free-er flowing intake side? The pipe won't be able to do much good if the carb is still smotheringly restrictive. At least some sort of air cleaner mod would be in order, I think.

How would you mod the air filter/intake?
You seen where it is, hidden in the 'bowels' of the bike?

Looks like several vendors have worked that out. Complete kits are available from Scooterworks and P.O.C., maybe SIP, too, IIRC.

[viney266]

Silverstreak.... That is one place I agree. When doing a pipe, carb work and cylinder...Yeah do it all at once and only jet it one time...Worth the effort to do it just once.