Took the red stella out for my first long ride.....comments

scoobyjax · Post by **scoobyjax** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:31 pm

Well, yesterday I finally spent the 1.5 hours waiting at the DMV so I can register my ride and get a tag. So, this morning I finally went out for a nice long ride. It was a lot of fun, but it's still going to take a little time to get used to the shifter and the rear brake. I did have a couple of questions just to see if this is a common beginner thing of if there may be something wrong. The first thing I noticed is that sometimes when I was at a red light in neutral, I couldn't get it into 1st gear. I had to let it catch a little in whatever gear I was, then clutch again and then I could go into 1st. I remember having this same problem with cars...so it's probably not a big deal.

The bigger issue I had was a little scary. It seems that the the scooter gets a little squirrely whenever I went over 40 mph or so. It's not that it felt wobbly and was fairly fine when I was going in a straight line, but any slight adjustment and I felt like I could get into a bad wobble. I felt like I had to keep a tight grip on the handle bars and wouldn't dare try with just one hand. I really didn't go much faster than 45-47 even though I was in a 55mph zone. I just didn't feel safe.
I did check the air pressure in the tires. It was 15-17 pounds. After reading a few posts, I went ahead and now have 30 psi in both tires. I really couldn't tell too much of a difference. One thing to mention though is that it's pretty windy today so that may have something to do with it. Also, when I leaned down towards the handle bars, it seemed to have gotten a little better.....like lowing my center of gravity.

I don't know. I'm not a speed freak, so staying under 50 isn't an issue for me, but I just want to know if scooter are supposed to feel like this. My background is crotch rockets and cruisers so I'm not used to the feel of the ride yet.

Also, I put gas in it. I had forgotten what it was like to fill up with 1 gallon!!! felt so good...especially knowing that it's going to last me all week!

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:12 pm

Your wheelbase is much, much shorter than on a cruiser or even a sport bike. That's part of what's registering as squirrelly: the shorter the distance between the tires' contact patches, the less you need to do to get a response from the bike. I'm coming from the other direction: my cruiser feels like I have to practically SHOVE to get a countersteer lean. Weaving through curves is hard work! On the scooter, it seemed like I just had to think about it and it happened. The telepathic link was great.

I'd say just give yourself some time to adjust to it and keep those tires inflated.

Lovelandstella · Post by **Lovelandstella** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:01 pm

scoobyjax wrote: It seems that the the scooter gets a little squirrely whenever I went over 40 mph or so. It's not that it felt wobbly and was fairly fine when I was going in a straight line, but any slight adjustment and I felt like I could get into a bad wobble. I felt like I had to keep a tight grip on the handle bars and wouldn't dare try with just one hand. ... One thing to mention though is that it's pretty windy today so that may have something to do with it. ...

I'm not entirely confident I know Exactly what you are saying but I agree with Cheshire. I don't think any thing is wrong with the scooter. yay!

I ride with one hand a lot at 45+ you will get used to it.

you just don't want to do any fast handlebar moves yourself at that speed as the scoot is RESPONSIVE! you turn and it really turns! - I think that might be what you mean.

here's one way to look at it:
the scooter is the "power steering" of the motorcycle universe.
with a big, heavy, And long motorcycle you have a lot of leeway to keep it going straight because it takes a fair amount to get it to turn. you can wobble your handlebars A LITTLE on purpose and not be in too much trouble. but pulling a u-turn in ONE lane (necessary in my state for a Motorcycle endorsment) is a pretty hard thing to do. A "Lot" only goes a "Little".
yet the Little, Light and SHORT scooter with the practically upright front "fork" (if-you-will) responds to Everything. You have very Little leeway to keep it going straight because it hardly takes Anything to get it to turn. "a Little goes a Lot." If you wobble a little on purpose you will do exactly that! so be careful. but eventually you may do it (slowly) for fun!
I haven't done it yet but I wonder how close I could weave through a line of quarters if laid on the road... 2 feet apart? 1 foot apart? maybe even twice the width of the tire?! that would be laughable on a motorcycle but on a scooter it's no problem. just do it at 5 mph and not 45...

so riding with one hand? Feasable! riding with no hands? NO. even a little movement escalates VERY fast and in 1 second you could be off the ride.

so just learn to hold it STRAIGHT-LY and not TIGHTLY or HEAVILY. and you can relax (yay!)in the 55 mph zones and spend more focus on the @$$ holes trying to make everybody go 80+ in the 55..

Spiffy · Post by **Spiffy** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:17 pm

I agree about the sensitivity of the steering... but I think your problem had a lot to do with the wind... when I take the freeway bridges up to Vancouver I get blown around a LOT if I don't make extra effort to keep myself straight and tuck down...

with the neutral to first gear thing I sometimes have an issue getting into first at a stop when in neutral... it's better when I'm in neutral while still moving as a come to a stop... if I try to put it into neutral while stopped then it has problems shifting out...

ScootLemont · Post by **ScootLemont** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:29 pm

scoobyjax wrote: The first thing I noticed is that sometimes when I was at a red light in neutral, I couldn't get it into 1st gear. I had to let it catch a little in whatever gear I was, then clutch again and then I could go into 1st. I remember having this same problem with cars...so it's probably not a big deal.

sometimes I need to roll forward a little forward to be able to put it into 1st.
Seems like a "thing" with Stellas - It doesn't happen all the time to me but once in a while.... & now the roll, when needed, is 2nd nature.
-give that a try.

Lokky · Post by **Lokky** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:38 pm

As far as having trouble with shifting to first while stationary it is perfectly normal and due to the gearing design.

When you stop in second gear the input and output shafts (2 and 3) are positioned for second gear. It is really hard to shift it into first from here because 1st and 2nd are not directly aligned. Giving some throttle while the clutch is pulled in allows the primary drive (1) and thus the input shaft to go out of phase from second gear and find itself in positions that may enable the selector to kick you into first. Just a gentle nudge of the throttle without engaging the clutch at all should do the trick.

scoobyjax · Post by **scoobyjax** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:10 pm

Actually, the steering isn't bad....more than anything, the issue is when I'm going straight. It seems like the bike is VERY sensitive to any weight shift. Maybe it was the wind that would push on the bike....I may have been unconsciously countering the wind every time there was a gust and the back and force compensating would begin. It was a bit un-nerving. Hopefully is is the shorter wheel base that I'm just not used to.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:14 pm

Check the bolts holding the wheels on JUST to be safe, and make sure the tires are "seated" properly against the rims. But yeah, the scoot feels a bit squirrelly to me ,too being a motorcycle guy. I would have another scooter guy ride it JUST to make sure what you are felling is normal. As what you describe is a bit more odd than mine feels to me.

scoobyjax · Post by **scoobyjax** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:22 pm

viney266 wrote:Check the bolts holding the wheels on JUST to be safe, and make sure the tires are "seated" properly against the rims. But yeah, the scoot feels a bit squirrelly to me ,too being a motorcycle guy. I would have another scooter guy ride it JUST to make sure what you are felling is normal. As what you describe is a bit more odd than mine feels to me.

Hehe....I don't know any scooter riders in Jacksonville. I'll have to find a victim....I mean scooter person

I checked the bolts and rims....it seems fine. I guess one thing I can try is take the white one out for a ride. They're identical so if it feels the same to me then it should be me that has the problem and not the scooter, right? I mean, what are the odds they both have the same issue?

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:18 am

Lokky wrote:Giving some throttle while the clutch is pulled in allows the primary drive (1) and thus the input shaft to go out of phase from second gear and find itself in positions that may enable the selector to kick you into first. Just a gentle nudge of the throttle without engaging the clutch at all should do the trick.

This definitely helps!

BUT, one thing I learned is that my instinct was all-too often to try to squeeze the clutch harder when actually loosening my death grip and relaxing the clutch was the key to easing into first.

It's also possible the cable needs adjustment.

lempira · Post by **lempira** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:33 am

I did check the air pressure in the tires. It was 15-17 pounds. After reading a few posts, I went ahead and now have 30 psi in both tires.

I would drop the front one down to 20 psi. Try it and see if you like it.

noodoggy · Post by **noodoggy** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:34 pm

as far as getting out of neutral and into first, i have found releasing the cluthc and resqueezing it helps to get into first gear. Also always dropping down into neutral as I come to a stop helps. leaving it in gear but with the clutch in makes it hard to move the gears once stopped. i have heard that rocking the scoot helps too if you cant get it in to gear, but i have only used that when the bike is not running (while working on it) and i am trying to get it on its stand and have accidentally knocked it out of neutral. Have fun!

scoobyjax · Post by **scoobyjax** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:27 pm

Well, I took the white one out for a spin and I have to say that I felt better on it than the red one. The wind had died down considerably though. When I got back home I check the pressure on the front tire and it was at about 17psi. Big difference from the red which was originally at 25psi and I increased to 30psi. I'm going to bring the front tire down to 17 on the red and give it another try.

We have 30 mph wind gusts today and it's in the 40's so no scooter today. This is Florida for crying out loud!!!

scoobyjax · Post by **scoobyjax** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:08 pm

Rode the red one to work today. It's still hard to tell. We've still got the 25mph gusts today. Whipped me all over the road in the wide open areas. I'm thinking it may be the wind. One thing that I've noticed is that my handle bars are a little off. They're turned slightly towards the left when I'm going striaght. They don't seem loose or anything....just like they were tightened wrong.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:15 pm

scoobyjax wrote:Rode the red one to work today. It's still hard to tell. We've still got the 25mph gusts today. Whipped me all over the road in the wide open areas. I'm thinking it may be the wind. One thing that I've noticed is that my handle bars are a little off. They're turned slightly towards the left when I'm going striaght. They don't seem loose or anything....just like they were tightened wrong.

Pretty easy to "adjust." Turn bars all the way to the right. Then push them and keep going until adjusted!

scoobyjax · Post by **scoobyjax** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:17 pm

ericalm wrote:
scoobyjax wrote:Rode the red one to work today. It's still hard to tell. We've still got the 25mph gusts today. Whipped me all over the road in the wide open areas. I'm thinking it may be the wind. One thing that I've noticed is that my handle bars are a little off. They're turned slightly towards the left when I'm going striaght. They don't seem loose or anything....just like they were tightened wrong.
Pretty easy to "adjust." Turn bars all the way to the right. Then push them and keep going until adjusted!

So there's no taking apart or anything involved?

noodoggy · Post by **noodoggy** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:42 pm

scoobyjax wrote:
ericalm wrote:
scoobyjax wrote:Rode the red one to work today. It's still hard to tell. We've still got the 25mph gusts today. Whipped me all over the road in the wide open areas. I'm thinking it may be the wind. One thing that I've noticed is that my handle bars are a little off. They're turned slightly towards the left when I'm going striaght. They don't seem loose or anything....just like they were tightened wrong.
Pretty easy to "adjust." Turn bars all the way to the right. Then push them and keep going until adjusted!
So there's no taking apart or anything involved?

or you could just use your handy stella wrench and loosen the bolt on the headset that's above the key ignition and adjust your steering that way =)

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:55 pm

noodoggy wrote:
scoobyjax wrote:
ericalm wrote: Pretty easy to "adjust." Turn bars all the way to the right. Then push them and keep going until adjusted!
So there's no taking apart or anything involved?
or you could just use your handy stella wrench and loosen the bolt on the headset that's above the key ignition and adjust your steering that way =)

Probably a better idea.

I was being a bit facetious (should have been clear about that!) Jamming the bars does work, but may not be the most harmless way to do it. However, from what I understand, it's a method that's been used by mechanics for decades to make minute adjustments.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:05 am

Yep, same technique as my Schwinn banana-seat bike

scoobyjax · Post by **scoobyjax** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:51 pm

Okay.....got the steering adjusted. All good now. I rode it in to work this morning and I'm starting to thing that it's just me adjusting to the bike combined with the 25mph winds because the ride is getting better. Rode to work this morning doing about 45 with just slight wiggles in heavy wind.

I gotta get this lock thing figure out. For now I'm parking in front of my buddy's car which is right in front of a window where our receptionist sits.

Blackshirt · Post by **Blackshirt** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:12 pm

I only have a problem getting into 1st from neutral if I try to go from 1st to neutral then back to 1st. If I downshift from 2nd to neutral at a light then go to first to launch, it doesn't give me any problems.

My Vespa doesn't give me any of those problems, but I'm sure her clutch has been rebuilt a number of times by now.

Stanley · Post by **Stanley** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:54 pm

Hey,

I concur with your impressions about the instability of the Stella. I came from a long background of road racing bicycles, and until I got my Stella in February, I had only ridden maybe a hundred miles on my Mom's Batavus Moped when I was in High School, and unknown model 50cc for an afternoon on Cozumel (where I was constantly dodging giant lizards sunning on the roadway and never could get any speed up), a rented 50cc Kymco People for a long weekend maybe eight years ago, and my Dad's old Riva for an afternoon last year.

The Stella is nothing like any of those.

At first it scared the crap out of me. It feels ridiculously fast, and as the speed builds my bicycle conditioned brain starts screaming 'you know how much it hurts to hit the ground at half this speed, fool, slow down!' and when the slightest crosswind hits the Stella twitches, causing me to involuntarily tense up...

Slowly though, I am coming to terms with the machine. I get it up to speed and wiggle the seat side to side to check the stability, and sure enough, the wind induced twitching is much smaller in magnitude, but it is so hard to give up the instinct that the wind is going to blow me right off... Bicycles just don't behave this way, the wind blows you in gentle arcs and not in these sudden twitches.

I was so concerned about this feeling of instability that I violated the number one rule given to me by the previous owner of the Stella 'never let your buddy borrow your scooter' and recruited my ex-Mod friend (maybe not so ex, he maintains a Fred Perry collection, and has worn a military Parka with patches ever since I've known him) to evaluate it. He, a veteran PX125 and PX200 jockey vanished with my ride and was gone for hours. He came back with a full tank of gas, reported he'd picked up two girls, and claimed to need more time to go back out for 'testing purposes'.

After about four weekends of this, he finally gave me the lowdown. The Stella, my Stella, rides exactly as any PX ever did. It has more power than his old 200, and vastly better brakes.

In the end, I was happy to know that the behavior of the machine is normal, but it is going to take me while to get used to it.

/TOM

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:11 pm

Those feelings are pretty much standard for new riders of any scooter!

I remember being shaky and unsure at 45mph.

scoobyjax · Post by **scoobyjax** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:46 pm

Stanley,

Now looking at my post that started this I feel kind of silly. I've been riding the scooter to work for almost 2 months. It was definitely a matter of getting used to it. I was used to riding a CBR and a Shadow.....much more weight, longer wheel base...etc. After about a week, my comfort level went through the roof. I have to ride down a stretch of US 1 where I have to do 50-55....no problem. 25 mph winds.....no problem. I'm learning to love me Stella

onedeed26 · Post by **onedeed26** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:18 am

Silly.... I've been riding my stella for about two weeks now and I've got that same feeling of unsteady at 45mph and was wondering if it was due to my dropping it last week, but your posts have made me feel confident that with time and practice I can do this

thanks

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:25 am

Just a side note. Stella speedos are notorious for being inaccurate. Whatever speed you see on the speedometer, knock of about 10% and you're closer to your actual speed. It's good to know that if you want to avoid impatient drivers coming up from behind that may be way to close or may make a hazardous pass at your expense.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:34 pm

Keith wrote:Just a side note. Stella speedos are notorious for being inaccurate. Whatever speed you see on the speedometer, knock of about 10% and you're closer to your actual speed. It's good to know that if you want to avoid impatient drivers coming up from behind that may be way to close or may make a hazardous pass at your expense.

Almost all scooter (and many motorcycle) speedos are around 10%-15% optimistic (meaning they read faster than actual speed).
Explanation here.

When I GPS'd mine, though, it was actually pretty accurate. More accurate than a Buddy or Vespa LX!

Nettar · Post by **Nettar** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:12 pm

That whole speedo thing must be why every 4 wheel vehicle I encounter is climbing up my backside. Is there a metric for the deviation from the actual speed that the speedometer reports? That would be most helpful.
I doubt that I'll ever get a speeding ticket on this machine but it would be good to know how fast (slow) I'm actually going.

Maximus53 · Post by **Maximus53** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:35 pm

My 4T only seems to be about 5% off or at least off of what my Garmin GPS watch shows... An indicated 55 mph seems to be about 52 mph. This also seems to be my top speed on flat with no major wind

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:12 am

Nettar wrote:That whole speedo thing must be why every 4 wheel vehicle I encounter is climbing up my backside. Is there a metric for the deviation from the actual speed that the speedometer reports? That would be most helpful.
I doubt that I'll ever get a speeding ticket on this machine but it would be good to know how fast (slow) I'm actually going.

Not sure how consistent it will be,. The beast way is to compare with a reliable GPS at a few different speeds.

When you're on a scooter, cars will crawl up your backside when you're exceeding the sped limit. They often just assume that you're really slow or are just driving like jerks. I can be doing 55 in a 35 (uh, hypothetically, of course) and cars will get up close behind me and swerve around me.

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:49 am

In my neck of the woods, the cops have portable radar units they periodically put out on various streets. They measure how fast you are going to make you aware of your speed.....big sign showing your current speed. When I've come across them I've repeatedly gone past them at various speeds as indicated on my speedometer then check to see how far off my speedometer is from reality. Obviously, if you have GPS available you can get the same result with less effort. It is important to know exactly how fast you are NOT going to avoid the unpleasant experience of a cage on your rear end looking for a chance to pass. There will always be some drivers that think your "moped" belongs along side the curb, not it their way.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:06 pm

The roadside "your speed is" signs are a tough way to measure your speed, IMHO. You never know precisely at which point it measures your speed and how long it takes to display. Riding in traffic, it's sometimes tough to tell if they're measuring you, the car next to you, etc.

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:31 am

Not a problem in my neck of the woods. Our suburban police tend to put them on less traveled neighborhood streets. That said, GPS is easier but if you don't have that available a couple of controlled drive bys gets the job done on the cheap.

Modern Buddy