I am an idiot, Center Stand Issues.

vantage · Post by **vantage** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:03 pm

Okay, the hardest thing I do with my Stella 4t is get it on and off the center stand.

The off issue will likely go away when I replace the rubber boot missing from the left side, and quit parking it too close the the wall. We'll see.

Getting the thing on the stand is proving difficult at times.

I nontice that some of the Vespa stands have either a little hook on them near the boot and others have an extention on them. I have watched youtube videos about vespa and scooter center stand use and noticed this.

I am thinking that getting a different model stand might help.

In the mean time however, I may just be using poor technique. I suspect my heighth is part of the problem and that I do not have quite as much leverage. Here is what I experience.

THe thing gets part way up and rolls back forward.
I get the edge of my shoe soul caught under the stand. I know move my feet, however I have a hard time reaching the handle bar and getting further away.

I try to put the bike up on the center stand by standing on the left side, holding the seat strap with the right hand and the left handle bar grip with the left. I try to do this with my feet facing foward but not together to disperse weight and to avoid twisting my back.

I am thinking about getting a rubber welcome mat to put under the bike as I think that my painted garage floor is not gripping the stand feet well enough. I had this trouble before I lost the rubber cup on the stand.

If I had a knub or hook, or something to brace against with my right foot, I think it would help. This is why I am considering a different centerstand.

What are the options on a Stella 4T.

I am too short to consider straddling the scooter while putting it on the stand.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:05 pm

http://www.scooterworks.com/centerstand ... s-2535.php

I have this SOOOOO much better than stock!

pesce · Post by **pesce** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:10 pm

I had a hell of a time until someone showed me how to do it. I stand on the right side facing the seat, hold the throttle with my right hand, left foot steps on the center stand rubber pushing it to the ground and half foot holding it on the ground and other half preventing it from slipping, left hand on the seat with fingers gripping under where grocery bag hook is. Then pull up and back on seat. Bingo!

vantage · Post by **vantage** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:46 pm

Viney266, Does the updated stand require different brackets on the Stella?

Pesce, I do basically the same thing from the left side. I pull on the strap and not under the seat, I will try that. I will also force myself to the right side and try that as well, I realize that the bike is heavy to that side, could make a difference.

I think lifting from under the seat may help, that is a more foward position and lower giving my a bit more room to lift upward while using legs for power.

pesce · Post by **pesce** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:52 pm

I tried the left side but it felt awkward. It may be from the weight of the engine. I'm right handed but from the right side of the bike, my left hand does all the work. I only use my right hand to balance the bike, and that's about it.

Good luck! Haha maybe ill take a video of me doing it. As long as someone promises to take a video of the cool "put the center stand down while seated" move!

Lokky · Post by **Lokky** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:31 pm

I got myself the reinforced stand that was linked and liked it so much more than the stock. Only issue is that it tended to not go up all the way until you compressed the rear shock and I broke two different reinforced springs with it.

I think both those issues came from using a sito+ pipe and not from the stand itself.

Since getting a new frame for my Stella I have just been using the stock stand and of course the rubber boots are already gone. My club prez handed me some metal boots for the stock stand that used to be on his bike so I will be trying those before wrestling with installing another reinforced stand.

By the way, I am fairly short for a guy and I have no problem putting her on the centerstand by using the front of the seat to pull.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:32 pm

I just straddle the scooter, plant the stand with my left foot and pop it up by yanking back on the bars. For me doing it off to the side is very awkward.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:39 am

I don't own a scooter but do often use the centerstand on a 640 pound motorcycle. Getting the bike off the stand presents no problems but getting off the bike and that awkward moment balancing the thing whole on one foot gives me pause. I guess that's less of an issue on a step-thru.

Is there some reason a Stella can't be fitted with a sidestand?

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:12 pm

Each of us develops a method that is within our comfort level.

Here's mine:
Shut off engine while still straddleing machine.
Step off to left, still holding the bars...hold front brake applied, this keeps the machine steady.
Once rebalanced, release the front brake and I hook edge of stand with my right foot and hold it against the ground....... This is one fluid motion. I rock the bike slightly so I can feel both stand legs are on the ground.
At this time I pull the bars to the rear, as though I am backing it out of a corner. Notice that I am only pulling the bars rearward.....I am not trying to lift the machine in any way.
The machine will overcenter the centerstand and fully seat the stand.

All done.

I take the machine off the stand by again holding each handgrip and pushing forward, while standing on the left.
The moment the machine rolls off the stand I apply the front brake and resteady it and myself......I don't release the brake till I have mounted the machine.
A lot of words for a three second event.

Like anything, you will develop a variation to this that is within your comfort level.

Be patient with yourself, you'll get it to the point of second nature.

Rob

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:22 pm

Robbie wrote: I take the machine off the stand by again holding each handgrip and pushing forward, while standing on the left.
The moment the machine rolls off the stand I apply the front brake and resteady it and myself......I don't release the brake till I have mounted the machine.
A lot of words for a three second event.

Like anything, you will develop a variation to this that is within your comfort level.

Be patient with yourself, you'll get it to the point of second nature.

Rob

To get off I straddle, yank up on the bars and the stand pops up

Lokky · Post by **Lokky** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:37 pm

I like to start my bike on the stand and let it warm there, then get it off using its own power

JohnKiniston · Post by **JohnKiniston** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:18 pm

Lokky wrote:I like to start my bike on the stand and let it warm there, then get it off using its own power

I'm going to recommend against driving off your centerstand, It's bad for the stand and the frame.

Lokky · Post by **Lokky** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:20 pm

JohnKiniston wrote:
Lokky wrote:I like to start my bike on the stand and let it warm there, then get it off using its own power
I'm going to recommend against driving off your centerstand, It's bad for the stand and the frame.

I don't really see how it's any different than just pushing it as far as the frame/stand are concerned.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:59 am

Lokky wrote:
JohnKiniston wrote:
Lokky wrote:I like to start my bike on the stand and let it warm there, then get it off using its own power
I'm going to recommend against driving off your centerstand, It's bad for the stand and the frame.
I don't really see how it's any different than just pushing it as far as the frame/stand are concerned.

I agree with JK. The difference is the extra 115 to 220 lbs (YMMV) stressing the stand and frame at "launch". I'll fully admit that I do it sometimes but really just sitting on the scooter on the stand stresses the frame.

Maximus53 · Post by **Maximus53** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:45 pm

BuddyRaton wrote: I agree with JK. The difference is the extra 115 to 220 lbs (YMMV) stressing the stand and frame at "launch". I'll fully admit that I do it sometimes but really just sitting on the scooter on the stand stresses the frame.

Wouldn't the frame have been designed with a safty factor (especially since it is a motor vehicle) to where the added ~200lbs would have no impact?

JoshWED · Post by **JoshWED** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:56 pm

I also use the engine to get it off the center stand...but I don't sit on the bike during the process...I straddle it, so I don't see how there is extra weight on the frame/stand.

As for getting it up on the stand, I start like Robbie. But for the actual push up (not yank, just a smooth, easy, effortless nudge) think ericalm has it right:

"I push the stand down with my foot and make sure that both sides of the stand are down. Planting my foot behind the stand, I grab the front of the seat and pull back."

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:51 am

Maximus53 wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote: I agree with JK. The difference is the extra 115 to 220 lbs (YMMV) stressing the stand and frame at "launch". I'll fully admit that I do it sometimes but really just sitting on the scooter on the stand stresses the frame.
Wouldn't the frame have been designed with a safty factor (especially since it is a motor vehicle) to where the added ~200lbs would have no impact?

Let's see...it's a 30+ year old Italian design...based on a 50 year old design... built in India. You can do what ever you want but they just weren't designed or built for it.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:59 pm

Maximus53 wrote:Wouldn't the frame have been designed with a safty factor (especially since it is a motor vehicle) to where the added ~200lbs would have no impact?

The issue here is not as much about if the chassis can handle the extra mass, it has more to do with where and how that mass is applied. When the bike is at rest on the stand, the stand is raked forward slightly. The linear distance between the floorboards and the ground is less than the length of the kickstand leg. When the bike is rolled off the stand, the kickstand leg swings through an arc greater than 90 degrees to stow against the floorboard. During this transition, the front half of the bike is lifted upwards as the bike passes through the part of the arc where the kickstand legs are perpendicular to the floorboard. This is the point where the frame is most stressed at the junction between the floorboard and the kickstand, as it must bear the weight of the front of the bike without the assistance of the front tire. Toss on a rider and gear for added mass. The kickstand must now push up against the floorboard to lift up a larger amount of mass on the same small contact surface. Consider the initial impulse too, where the scooter's engine pushes against the angled stand to force the bike up and over the stand's arc of movement as well.

I'm rambling at this point, but the point is, don't ride your Vespa/Stella off the centerstand, over time you will deform your floorboards where the stand bolts up and you will probably bend your stand too.

JoshWED · Post by **JoshWED** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:18 pm

Still skeptical. I've done it for years (daily rider) and never seen any warping. And still don't get how it's any different than pushing the bike forward. Again, I'm straddling the bike (not sitting on it) whether I use the engine or am pushing against the handle bars (and if you think of the angle of force, I'd still go with the engine).

Short of being able to lift the bike by the handle bars so that the spring can clear the center stand on its own, I think the stress on the bike is the same.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:14 pm

JoshWED wrote:...Again, I'm straddling the bike (not sitting on it)...

And therein lies the rub. You're supporting your weight, not doing the "sit down, feet up and ride off over the stand" thing. It's this latter sort of behavior that bends stuff.

stASH · Post by **stASH** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:36 pm

I'm curious, have you actually seen a bent frame that resulted from this method of taking the bike off its center stand? I can see your logic, but not sure it would truly manifest. I suspect the behavior shown in your avatar pic would be much more likely to result in frame bending.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:14 pm

stASH wrote:I'm curious, have you actually seen a bent frame that resulted from this method of taking the bike off its center stand? I can see your logic, but not sure it would truly manifest. I suspect the behavior shown in your avatar pic would be much more likely to result in frame bending.

Starting with the avatar pic, it's a teeter-totter, not a jump. The bike was at a near-halt and I was tickling the clutch to creep up enough to tilt it over gently. That bike has 20K on it and the frame is just fine.

With the frames, I have witnessed someone who does use the "ride off the stand while seated" and has bent their stand (the heavy duty one) and has minor creasing on the floorboards of their Stella. I've seen a 125TS with a creased floor over the stand as well. I have a V90 in the garage awaiting a full overhaul with a creased floor over the stand as well.

Bolt a set of buddy pegs on over the centerstand and ride off of it to your hearts content, if it suits you.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:54 pm

stASH wrote:I'm curious, have you actually seen a bent frame that resulted from this method of taking the bike off its center stand? I can see your logic, but not sure it would truly manifest. I suspect the behavior shown in your avatar pic would be much more likely to result in frame bending.

I don't...the front and rear wheels have suspension components...the center stand does not.

It's your scooter....do what ever you want with it. We will wait for the "Why is my floor board bent?" thread.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:20 pm

I don't know what it would take in practice, but it CAN happen since these scooters have a monocoque design with no separate frame to speak of. One of the brilliant inspirations of the Vespa design was their use of aircraft construction techniques.

Based on my very limited time sitting on Stellas in shops, the seat height would seem to make it awkward to ride off (I have short legs) so I would probably just straddle it instead. Then again IIRC, it only weighs some 350 pounds (am I correct?) so it's not like it's unmanageably heavy if one were to get it off the stand while standing to the side.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:35 pm

Southerner wrote:Then again IIRC, it only weighs some 350 pounds (am I correct?)

I believe the curb weight on a 2T stella is around 215-220lbs. I believe the 4T Stellas are around 250-260lbs.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:46 pm

Oh. Even better. Much better in fact.

stASH · Post by **stASH** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:17 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:
stASH wrote:I'm curious, have you actually seen a bent frame that resulted from this method of taking the bike off its center stand? I can see your logic, but not sure it would truly manifest. I suspect the behavior shown in your avatar pic would be much more likely to result in frame bending.
I don't...the front and rear wheels have suspension components...the center stand does not.

It's your scooter....do what ever you want with it. We will wait for the "Why is my floor board bent?" thread.

I was just truly curious if that type of frame damage had been observed. I personally wouldn't ride off the stand like that. I'm short, it seems scary.

JoshWED · Post by **JoshWED** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:10 pm

az_slynch wrote:
JoshWED wrote:...Again, I'm straddling the bike (not sitting on it)...
...not doing the "sit down, feet up and ride off over the stand" thing. It's this latter sort of behavior that bends stuff.

I didn't eve know that feet up-ride off was a thing. Yeah, I can see that ruining the stand/frame.

vantage · Post by **vantage** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:09 pm

Okay, so grabbing under the seat for lifting up helps. Thanks.

I still need to use the strap for getting it off the stand. It helps me make sure the bike does not fall to right side.

Now getting the upgraded stand will help keep the sole of my shoe caught, or sock.............No I dont ride with socks only, but do move the bike from side to side in the garage depending on what car needs out. some times I go out at night to get things in order for next day. Like lastnight I pulled car out, put scoot on other side to make room for riding mower to come out this morning.

If I had a 3 car garage, would I have more stuff? Hmmm....where will the side car go?????

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:13 pm

To get it off just straddle the scooter and bump the bars forward. I find working the scooter up and down from the side to be very awkward.

vantage · Post by **vantage** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:59 pm

I have gravity on my side on getting it off the stand, and so not much trouble. I do find I need to keep my hand under the seat strap because sometimes it leans heavily right If I am not in the garage when lowering it.

As to the straddle manuevers, I am just to short legged for that.