Red Stella in accident.....some damage...insurance q's

[scoobyjax]

Ended up hurting the Stella kind of bad. Called my insurance (Geico) to come out and file a claim. They said that if the repair was more than 80% of the replacement cost they would total and give me a check for replacement cost.

I haven't gotten a figure yet, but how do they determine replacement cost? I looked up values on NADA and Bluebook and it ranges between 1900's and $2500. It's a 2004 that had nothing wrong until this weekend. Mileage is still under 1000 miles.

I just want to know what to do if they come back telling me that the scooter is worth $1000 and offering me $800. Thanks in advance!!!

[Lovelandstella]

A lot of people wonder this so I will give more of an answer here- even though therer may already be a topic or two about this same thing. Eric's "1st stella 4T ever sold in the US" was totaled and he talked about it here in depth- so check that out.

Every insurance company handles it a little differently, so take what anyone tells you with a grain of salt. the best thing is to really ask your insurance company or the company of the person that hit you or whatever.

The cost of the vehicle? It depends on how much time and effort they spend in looking into it. unfortunately most insurance companies will quickly assign a value and then never change for it.
I reccommend communication; if you feel they low ball you, then try supporting your viewpoint. here:

1) make sure they are talking about the same scooter. even though it is crazy talk to us - most insurers don't care to know the difference between a buddy or a stella or a "non-genuine" piece of junk.
- their low price might be because they have your scoot listed slightly or largely wrong.

2) find others in the area that are for sale. not like any of us want to sell our rides- it does happen. what are they selling for?
- this is both for them and for you. I love my scoot and I am sure you loved yours, but a huge selling point with genuine is the warranty that of course doesn't exist ever if someone is buying a used scooter.

3) that reminds me - remember your scooter wasn't brand new. it wasn't even new new. once you roll it off the lot it is used and as the new seller you can never offer another buyer what Genuine can offer (warranty)
- if I had the option to buy my brand new, warrantied stella from the dealer for around $4k out the door- or buying one with miles on it from a person I even could have been best friends with- I honestly would not be paying anywhere near new price for a used scooter- and if you are honest, you would agree. keep that in mind for your own sake. My current 2010 Stella 4T scooter is NOT worth what I paid for it. depreciation.

4) don't be afraid to list out for them all the extras you have for it also. not necessaryily hjackets and pants and gloves- although might as well- some insurance companies will pay for them some wont, something about "clothing not being covered" I dunno.
- but like I have a bunch of stella chrome at home I take off in the winter so it doesn't get all road salted ect and if my scoot got totalled and the chrome at home was fine - yet I go buy a buddy- that chrome is now useless- it's like if someone rolls a truck while the topper is in the back yard in storage- the insurance company would still include some cost for the now useless extras since there is nothing else left to attach them to.
** NOTE: when you do this- they are buying the extras from you so yeah- you have to fork them over. that's whay buying means.
- but since you have a 2T and they dont make thiose anymore if you end up buying a 4t next- while some chrome still fits both the rear racks dont and if you have one at home now its just taking up space. see what I mean?

5) know your own insurance policy- call your agent, ask questions, think it out for yourself. we all have a responsibility to understand the promise we are paying our insurance companies to keep. you think they owe you a rental car? are you 100% sure you have been paying for rental car coverage all these years? it's not a standard thing- its an extra. extra means "costs more" and most riders don't get it.
but if your scoot is a daily driver like mine is- I completely suggest it - it is less than you might expect. or should be.

6) please for the love of god make sure you even have the coverage that means they can pay you for your scooter in an accident. if you have the bare minimum- you wont get a "no insurance ticket" when the cops pull you over - but when you lay the scoot/bike down the insurance pays you $0.00. why? because you (possibly) never asked for or bought the correct coverage in the 1st place. so just make sure you have the insurance you want to have.

that's all I got. I hope it helps. sorry if it seemed all over the place. I wrote this on my break.
Good Luck!

[scoobyjax]

Thanks Lovelandstella. I do have full coverage insurance with Geico and a $100 deductible. I guess I'm mainly concerned that they're going to come back with an insanely lowball offer. I know my Stella isn't worth $3700 anymore, but you can't find one for sale around me from the same year for less than $1900. This morning the adjuster couldn't give me a value right away because they didn't have info on a stella available. they hadn't even heard of it.

[Lovelandstella]

haven't heard of it? yikes.
send them an email with links. help them research. make it easy for them to be like "oh, cool!, THIS?! neat! yes I see why you say its worth $1900, let's talk." or something.

[Robbie]

Regarding the 80% business.

It means they will total the machine if repairs exceed 80% of current value based on black book value for your machine in your area.....the values assigned are regional.

If the machine gets totalled, you will still recieve a check for 100% current replacement value for your year machine less your deductable......not the 80% you were thinking.

Insurance companies use the 80% because during repair there is often hidden damage that increases the repair costs...often this could make repairing the machine more expensive than its book value.
So, the percentage is a type of safety net for the insurance company.

My curiousity is killing me.....what happened?

Rob

[ericalm]

Sorry to hear about the crash! Glad you're okay (I hope).

I wound up getting MSRP for my Stella, but that was due to the fact that there was no such thing as "current value" since NO used ones were on the market and the new ones had only been in shops for 3 months. I also played up the rarity and "collector's value."

It would help if you start collecting links to ones that have sold on eBay in your state and taking screenshots of any Craigslist postings. Also talk to a dealer and ask if they will provide a letter or some such giving an estimate for the value of a comparable scooter.

Most adjusters are CLUELESS when it comes to scoots. For other claims I've had to make, my dealer was instrumental in getting them to cover the proper amounts for parts and repairs.

On the other hand, I've had very good luck with claims reps, even at insurance companies where their client was at fault and they were paying out for my expenses. It's good to keep in contact, ask them questions and build a rapport, because these people can be very helpful. Two years after my crash, I needed some documentation for new car insurance (showing I wasn't at fault) and the rep was super-nice!

Another suggestion: If there was another vehicle/person involved in the crash, don't post details about what happened until it's all settled. That can come back to bite you in the butt.

[scoobyjax]

My curiousity is killing me.....what happened?

Rob

It's kind of embarrassing, but I guess it happens. My battery had died. I went to kick start it. I made sure it was in neutral. When I kicked, it started but I was holding the shifter...my inertia put it in first. It took off, I tried to hold it and it popped a wheelie..before I could shut it down or stall it, it took off...in a wheelie! kinda cool actually. it jumped a parking concrete thingy and landed on the left side. Really not a lot of damage but the leg guard got bent on the left side and the trim broke. No damage to the lights, mirrors, or anything like that. The side panel that covers the battery and spare got scratched up......but seriously, I don't think the damage is that bad. I little hammering, paint, and trim and she's good as new.....but I can see a shop wanting quite a bit of money. The biggest thing is that I know the leg guard is part of the body and that's gotta cost a pretty penny.

The insurance adjuster told me that the best bet would probably be that they'd give me a check for 80% of the replacement cost and I can got get it fixed. Or, they might total it and give me 100% minus my deductible, but they take the scooter to get squished. He told me that if they totaled it, I could still take the 80% and keep the scooter. That sound like a good idea which makes me REALLY wonder what the replacement cost is. Let say it's $1700......they'd give me $1260 to get it fixed or $1600 to total it. I think I could fix it for $1260

[ericalm]

He told me that if they totaled it, I could still take the 80% and keep the scooter.

Are you sure that's correct? Maybe it varies by state, but when mine was totaled, it had to be purchased from the insurance company (for $500!) as salvage, with a salvage title. If they pay out for the scooter when it's totaled, that usually means that they own it.

I have Geico as well and know that at least in CA, that's the way it works.

[scoobyjax]

He told me that if they totaled it, I could still take the 80% and keep the scooter.

Are you sure that's correct? Maybe it varies by state, but when mine was totaled, it had to be purchased from the insurance company (for $500!) as salvage, with a salvage title. If they pay out for the scooter when it's totaled, that usually means that they own it.

I have Geico as well and know that at least in CA, that's the way it works.

Maybe I didnt state that in the right manner. He told me that if the cost to repair was more than the 80%, that i could take the 80% and try to find someone that would fix it for that much OR just let them total it

[Robbie]

As a ex-appraiser, I have made that type of arrangement in the past.
Some states won't allow it.....specifically those with 'No Fault' provisions.

Based on your description though, it sounds repairable.
The difficulty stems from a Stella being constructed out of steel.
Bike shops only replace parts and those parts (plastic panels, metal forks/rims/etc.) all arrive pre-painted.
As a result, the shop has no ability to straighten sheet metal or perform any refinish work.
And as a result of that, the Stella, (or any sheet steel scooter) ends up being repaired at a auto body shop.....usually a specialty shop that does restoration work.
Those folks know how to massage steel back into shape.

This causes a cost problem because a bike shop will sublet the machine to a area auto shop.......the insurance company will allow a 20% markup for sublet work and that 20% may be what pushes the repair costs over the top.

So, if it exceeds the 80% limit, try to get it directly to a body shop and see what they can do for you.......you might be able to get it squared away and have money left over.

Interesting chain of events there.....I'm sure now, upon reflection and mental playback, seems somewhat comical......I imagine at that moment though....not so much.

Best of luck,

Rob

[scoobyjax]

here are some pics of the damage:

[Robbie]

I see no reason a good body shop can't rectify that.....was the front fender or handlebar damaged in any way?

Currently looks like floorboard repair/refinish and cowl sanding/filling/ refinish and trim replacement.

Good luck,
Rob

[scoobyjax]

I see no reason a good body shop can't rectify that.....was the front fender or handlebar damaged in any way?

Currently looks like floorboard repair/refinish and cowl sanding/filling/ refinish and trim replacement.

Good luck,
Rob

No, looks like they made it through the ordeal okay.

[scoobyjax]

The verdict is in. Geico says the replacement cost is $2250.

Option 1: Give them the bike and they give me $2150
Option 2: Keep the bike and they give me check for $1700


Now that I've put up some pictures, do you guys have any idea what these repairs might cost me?

[Robbie]

The verdict is in. Geico says the replacement cost is $2250.

Option 1: Give them the bike and they give me $2150
Option 2: Keep the bike and they give me check for $1700


Now that I've put up some pictures, do you guys have any idea what these repairs might cost me?

Geico is figuring in complete body replacement since there is no repair guide for straighten and refinish.
This is considered normal proceedure, so the appraisers hands are tied.

Drive it to a couple of body shops.....I mean real ones, not Maaco type chain shops, and see if they will give an estimate.
You may have to offer getting needed parts (such as the floor rails) for them as they would not have sources available.
If you go this route, and are willing to jump through a few hoops as a part supplier, I would guestimate a time and material estimate under 700.00....
Here in Northern Il anyways.
Lots of body shops here, all hungry, so they are generally open to anything that produces income.
A lot of the savings come from the MUCH lower hourly rate body shops work at verses a bike or car dealer.

Now be careful and don't talk about what you may have to spend.....just get estimates for now.
Time is on your side and you don't have to settle with your insurance co. till you have explored all your options.
Don't let them pressure you into closing the claim......they just want you out of their hair.

I'll watch the thread.

Rob

[ericalm]

Has a scooter dealer looked at this yet? It should be checked and measured to make sure the frame isn't compromised. Doesn't look like it, but can't tell from pics.

Is the floorboard split/torn on the side there? That could be a tough spot to repair.

There's probably a lot you could also not fix and live with (if you wanted to use the money for the other fixes), such as the cowl.

[scoobyjax]

Has a scooter dealer looked at this yet? It should be checked and measured to make sure the frame isn't compromised. Doesn't look like it, but can't tell from pics.

Is the floorboard split/torn on the side there? That could be a tough spot to repair.

There's probably a lot you could also not fix and live with (if you wanted to use the money for the other fixes), such as the cowl.

No, I haven't had a chance to take it to be looked at yet. The damage is really just concentrated in that spot on the floor board. I rode it around the neighborhood and you wouldn't know anything was wrong if you didn't look down. Rides straight, turns fine....no noises or anything. Really just seems cosmetic. I'm going to see if I can get someone to look at it this weekend. There is a scooter club here in Jacksonville and I have been given names of guys that do repairs on the side including metal work. Going check with them too.

[Stitch]

I'd beat it with a hammer, spray bomb the scratches , ride it as is, and pocket the $1700 towards the next scooter.

[sippin.fnordies]

I'd beat it with a hammer, spray bomb the scratches , ride it as is, and pocket the $1700 towards the next scooter.

That's exactly what i was thinking...for me that $1700 would go into a 165 bore/carb/exhaust and still have nearly $1K leftover. Then again I've never cared much about cosmetics as long as everything works like it should.

[skully93]

man.....

As much as I hate to see your baby hurt, I would just patch it up, call it 'scarred' and take that 1700.

Of course, if you keep driving it, and there is another accident (unless another driver is totally at fault) you might be SOL on it. However, you could pad your chances with a wad of cash!

Glad YOU weren't hurt.

[scoobyjax]

Well, I went to harbor freight and purchased a 7 piece body and dolly kit. I've started to hammer out the damage....slow and steady and so far I'm shocked out how easily everything is going back into place. It really looks like the trim pieces can be reused. I just can't figure out how they're attached. The floorboard trim looks like its rivitted to the floorboard. I guess I can drill a small hole through the bottom and screw it in place. The leg shield trim I'm not sure. Looks like it glued?

My other question...Is it possible to paint just the places where the bike got scratched? The paint came off where the metal crumpled up. Can I spot paint those blemishes or should the whole floorboard be painted? I've never painted before but can't imagine its too difficult....mostly prep work, right?

[jiro]

This is the tool which crimps the leg shield trim on. I have this tool and it takes some practice to get use to. If you can reshape the trim it may be possible to glue it back in place. Not perfect but I dont think you can recrimp the trim with this tool. As far as the paint goes it is fairly easy, just remember not to tape to a hard line (imagine a car door and you just tape off and paint the middle) you always see this. You need to find an edge and paint everything up to it. That way you dont see the slight difference in colour.

http://www.scooterworks.com/tool--legsh ... -11854.php

Good luck, Sad to see your baby scratched.

jiro from Sapporo

[Wild Handyman]

Regarding the legshield trim, Scooterworks offers an extremely inexpensive plastic trim ($22), that is similar to, but a little larger than automobile door edge guard trim, that is sized and pre-bent for your scooter, and you don't have to go through the trouble of replacing the original aluminum stuff. I installed it after my bike got dropped. It doesn't look exactly like the original stuff, but honestly, your bike isn't going to look exactly like it did before the repairs either. HERE'S the link.

Scooterworks also offers a two-piece chrome legshield trim for $42 that might be a better looking option. It should also be a piece-of-cake to install. The only drawback to installing that item MIGHT be that adding anything on top of it (like crash bars or mirrors) could be impossible... I don't know how thick the stuff is. HERE'S the link for the chrome stuff.

[scoobyjax]

Regarding the legshield trim, Scooterworks offers an extremely inexpensive plastic trim ($22), that is similar to, but a little larger than automobile door edge guard trim, that is sized and pre-bent for your scooter, and you don't have to go through the trouble of replacing the original aluminum stuff. I installed it after my bike got dropped. It doesn't look exactly like the original stuff, but honestly, your bike isn't going to look exactly like it did before the repairs either. HERE'S the link.

Scooterworks also offers a two-piece chrome legshield trim for $42 that might be a better looking option. It should also be a piece-of-cake to install. The only drawback to installing that item MIGHT be that adding anything on top of it (like crash bars or mirrors) could be impossible... I don't know how thick the stuff is. HERE'S the link for the chrome stuff.

Thanks for that info on the Trim!!

[scoobyjax]

Well, I straightened it out as much as I could and then took it to a reputable body shop for an estimate. To my amazement, I was quoted 200-250 dollars that finish straightening everything out, priming and painting the damaged area, rivetting down the piece of floor trim, and recrimpping or glue legshield trim. I thought that was a pretty good price, what do you guys think?

[scoobyjax]

Well, I didn't get a chance to take advantage of the great quote on the repair or the great price on new trim. I sold (more like gave away) the red scooter today to a real nice guy who I know will enjoy her and maybe ride her more than I did.

It's a bitter sweet moment. The breaks were fixed, fluids changed, she was just broken in...and now she has a new home. Oh well. It is what it is. I have one scooter now.

[ericalm]

One is better than none!