stella 4t availablity.

[JoshWED]

Weird but great!

[EvilTweety]

So how much do you want for it?

[illnoise]

Even if it's as simple as a sticker or something, I'd imagine the bikes are probably held up in a third-party storage area that Genuine may not have access to (and is probably paying a daily fee for!), and even if they did, they probably couldn't uncrate, modify, and re-crate the scooters, logistically.

again, all speculation. But things like this often aren't as simple as they seem.

Bb.

[Lovelandstella]

...I work with government specifications every day, and there is no mystery to them. Anal retentiveness, yes, but mystery...no. You follow the spec to the T, and everything is okay. You don't and you get your hand slapped. Specifications are written expressly so that someone CAN verify what is being provided...

I get it. sounds pretty easy: look at the specs look at the scoot, look at the specs, look at the scoot. Sounds simple enough.

New question.
Why did it take them several months?
this reminds me of a song Tenacious D wrote about the Gov'ment.

Fun new Green fact about the 1st batch of Stella 4ts:
Their carbon footprint just tripled: Shipped here, there, then back to here again.
I know I'll get a newly minted one that should be shipping soon, but still as an earth conscious person I'm very aware of that and I'll have to live with that. (and my loving wife will remind me)

[Syd]

I still have to ask about the "easily corrected" comment from Genuine in previous announcements. If it is easliy corrected why do they have to ship them back to India? Why can't they correct the "violations" here in the states? I'm also surpised that they did not include the late fall delivery in the consumer annoucement that they included in the dealer announcement. Is this an indication that it may be even later? Perhaps I'm just naive...

My guess is similar to JoshWED's. they have to be shipped back because that's the process, and process is god. It may be LML's process, it may be Custom's process, it may be EPA's process. But once you get an organization to the point of being process driven instead of results driven, nothing gets in the way of following the process.

[illnoise]

Fun new Green fact about the 1st batch of Stella 4ts:
Their carbon footprint just tripled: Shipped here, there, then back to here again.

That's a good point, ha.

[jrsjr]

Has anyone thought to ask the EPA what what the deal is? Even if they aren't happy to fork over the records, the EPA is a Federal agency. Unless they struck a deal with Genuine that involved secrecy, the documents pertaining to this matter should be available via a Freedom Of Information (FOI) request. Just ask.

[dawg onit]

Fun new Green fact about the 1st batch of Stella 4ts:
Their carbon footprint just tripled: Shipped here, there, then back to here again.

That's a good point, ha.

I kinda think all this has to be attributed to the scooters that were shipped here & were sub par in every way ( I think China kinda ruined the scoot scene for a second). Cal is my favorite state, & it sucks that they (EPA OR WUT EVER) are doing this to a company that clearly wants to provide not only scooters, but quality ones at that. Alot of people got ripped off trying to be green during the gas pinch, buying scoots that they still can't even get registered or even start, (my home girl Freedom)

Good companys seem to suffer more than others because of this. I have never met Phillip, but if I was chief'n a nice J with him, I would say... "brudda, you got da best scoots around, thanks for bringing new flavor, frak them (stupid people that would stop fuel efficient scooters in a state that is crazy polluted) , but I'm still gonna buy a blur not a stella!" then I would cough & pass him the kind.

[Lovelandstella]

Has anyone thought to ask the EPA what what the deal is? Even if they aren't happy to fork over the records, the EPA is a Federal agency. Unless they struck a deal with Genuine that involved secrecy, the documents pertaining to this matter should be available via a Freedom Of Information (FOI) request. Just ask.

I looked them up online and sent everybody I could find who was involved with the customs or incoming motor vehicles or what have you, I sent them all a quick letter mostly saying I am a citizen and I'd love to hear thier side to this and if I sent this to the wrong person please forward it on to the right person because I want a response to this. I also mentioned they should probably love to talk about something other than the oil spill so perhaps they'd like to answer it for me. I didn't mention the "Freedom Of Information (FOI)" but I probably should have.

I sent them out about 2 or 3 weeks after the EPA/customs 1st got their hands on them (I think), but so far- not a word.

[BrooktownGeezer]

They'll probably answer, but it will likely be after their work on the 4T Stella has been completed.

I'd be surprised if they responded while they were doing their inspections.

[bdonay]

Just pulled my deposit and going with another scooter. I will be hitting the rode on my new scoot shortly. Good luck to all those still waiting.

Not sure whats going on with with Genuine, but sending them back to LML seems a little much considering they had minor EPA issues. I deal with local government agencies all the time and minor issues can always be worked out without having to start over. To me it seems like a bigger deal than what Genuine is making it out to be.

By the time the 4T gets here, all the 2011 models will be coming out, which will make the brand new 4T a year old when you drive it off the lot. And who knows what needed to change on the scoot to make it EPA ok. I don't want to be the ginny pig testing out a rush order from LML. Hope you guys get some awesome deals for waiting.

[illnoise]

sending them back to LML seems a little much considering they had minor EPA issues.

I'm sure they agree with you, but it's apparently the only option. If they're not U.S. legal, Genuine is simply not allowed to collect them from Customs. Genny surely lobbied to correct the problem themselves, or to get a variance from the government, but nothing worked out and sending them back is the only option. I'm sure Genuine is not thrilled to be paying to store them for months, then to ship them back, and have them shipped back again (and retested.) Maybe LML will shoulder some of that cost eventually, but I bet Genny is writing the checks for return postage.

As another example, if Customs intercepted a shipment of food with parasites or toys with lead paint or illegal guns, the manufacturer can't say "oh, sorry, give us those, we'll fix them." This is the same deal, if they don't meet requirements, they have to go back. They can't go to the government warehouse and uncrate a thousand scooters and modify them.

Bryan

[Lovelandstella]

Just pulled my deposit and going with another scooter. I will be hitting the rode on my new scoot shortly. Good luck to all those still waiting.

thanks for the luck and let us know what you get and how you like your new scoot.

...Hope you guys get some awesome deals for waiting.

+1

[bdonay]

if Customs intercepted a shipment of food with parasites or toys with lead paint or illegal guns

My point exactly, those are very big and life threatening issues. Genuine has said that the EPA has "expressed concerns over minor variances", and "These concerns are non-mechanical and have no effect on the emissions standards, the safety, or the operation of the Stella 4 stroke scooter." All I was trying to say is if these issues where truly minor than Genuine wouldn't have sent them back to LML. Its just so shady.

[jmkjr72]

if Customs intercepted a shipment of food with parasites or toys with lead paint or illegal guns

My point exactly, those are very big and life threatening issues. Genuine has said that the EPA has "expressed concerns over minor variances", and "These concerns are non-mechanical and have no effect on the emissions standards, the safety, or the operation of the Stella 4 stroke scooter." All I was trying to say is if these issues where truly minor than Genuine wouldn't have sent them back to LML. Its just so shady.

that is not the case due to the loads of cheap clone scooters that were coming in the epa has taken a very firm stanse and has been forcing boat loads of scooters to be returend due to the fact that they did not meet epa/dot standerds

[illnoise]

if Customs intercepted a shipment of food with parasites or toys with lead paint or illegal guns

My point exactly, those are very big and life threatening issues. Genuine has said that the EPA has "expressed concerns over minor variances", and "These concerns are non-mechanical and have no effect on the emissions standards, the safety, or the operation of the Stella 4 stroke scooter." All I was trying to say is if these issues where truly minor than Genuine wouldn't have sent them back to LML. Its just so shady.

It's not SHADY, that's not a fair adjective to use. They didn't meet spec, apparently it's something relatively superficial, but something Genuine and LML had no reason to expect a problem with. Genuine wasn't trying to sneak contraband scooters over the border in the dark of night, they're a company that couldn't be more dedicated to scootering and scooterists (and the ONLY major importer whose income is based ONLY on scooter sales). They've been doing this for years now and felt they were in the right, but Customs (after years of looking the other way and allowing boatloads of REAL junk in) finally cracked down on the regulations, apparently to the extreme. Genuine argued their case, lost, and there's NO OTHER OPTION but to send them back (Well, i suppose they could be DESTROYED!), just as would be done with any foreign product that doesn't meet spec, however flagrant or superficial.

I don't see how that constitutes "shady," or why so many people think Genuine bent over backwards to ensure that their scooters WOULDN'T pass inspection, and they'd have millions of dollars in inventory locked up in a warehouse at their own expense that would have to be shipped back to India.

If you're frustrated, that's totally understandable, it's a frustrating situation for everyone involved. But after 15 years of seeing people that are the dictionary definition of SHADY trying to screw the american scooter-buying public with absolute life-threatening junk, it really gets on my nerves to hear Genuine described as SHADY. If there is shadiness involved, it will be revealed eventually, but based on their track record, they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Bb.

[bdonay]

Like I've said before, I work with the government on a daily basis following their guidelines to ensure public safety. It raises a rad flag for me me when something this drastic happens. I'm not saying Genuine is at fault or the government, I just don't think all the info is being shared, hence shady.

My wife has a Buddy and I am currently looking at a Stella 2T, so its not like I hate the company.

[illnoise]

I agree that it's maybe strange that more info has not been shared, but I imagine that there are legal and commercial implications to all this. A clearer announcement might jeopardize their relationship with LML, or complicate a potential legal action against a supplier, or might even have implications for other importers in other countries.

This weekend at our rally, I talked to a couple dealers, and a few Genuine/Scooterworks employees. I never bug people to find out stuff like this, but I have several friends close to the situation, and usually someone is itching to tell me about it, either on or off the record. I'm good at keeping secrets when asked, and good at spreading news when I'm asked. I found out a couple interesting things about Genuine this weekend, but no one wanted to talk about the Stella, so it's clearly pretty hush-hush, but I simply don't see that as "shady," I'm sure they have their reasons. Sooner or later, we'll find out.

And I don't think it's shady on the government's part either, it was just a change in enforcement that, frankly, many of us have been begging for. It just happened to ironically backfire big-time on one of the few companies that really do try to do things by the book.

"Shady" would be if, say, if you were an importer and your entire warehouse and manufacturing facility burnt to the ground on the last day of a full-staff vacation, after months of poor sales and rumors that you're not getting along with your manufacturer. In that hypothetical situation, I would definitely call that "shady," especially when the fire department ruled it an arson the next day.

Sorry to get so upset and rant like that, I *do* get what you're saying, and again, i understand everyone's frustration, I just have a serious problem with that adjective in this situation.

Bryan

[ericalm]

I'm not the type of person who's inclined to think that corporartions have the best intentions (for consumers); I'm fairly cynical when it comes to much of this stuff. Yet I'm kind of astounded that anyone would think that Genuine wouldn't handle this in the fastest, least expensive, and most expeditious manner possible. They want these scoots on dealer floors as soon as possible. As frustrated as would-be buyers may be, this whole debacle is costing Genuine millions at the worst possible time. Even if I were coming from my usual "corporations are self-interested by their very nature" perspective, that wouldn't make any sense.

Like I've said before, I work with the government on a daily basis following their guidelines to ensure public safety. It raises a rad flag for me me when something this drastic happens. I'm not saying Genuine is at fault or the government, I just don't think all the info is being shared, hence shady.

Be that as it may, I'm guessing that you do not work for Customs or the EPA and aren't privy to any more of the specifics of this case than the rest of us. I'm not discounting your opinion, but unless you have some actual, relevant information or documentation, or share knowledge specifically pertinent to this or a similar case, I'm not sure your work (whatever that is) sheds any additional light on what's happened or whether or not any shenanigans are taking place.

I agree with you and illnoise that we've been provided scant information, but there are a number of rational possible reasons—aside from some sort of coverup—this may be the case. In the past, Genuine has most been very open about any issues with the scooters, so in this instance I'm trying to respect their need to release info as they see fit.

I personally doubt that the reason for not providing more specifics is some kind of PR maneuver. They have nothing to gain in terms of PR by doing so, especially now.

I guess what some people want is more frequent updates, even if those updates are, "We have no more information at this time." That would probably piss just as many people off. Damned if you do…

[dawg onit]

I kinda think all this has to be attributed to the scooters that were shipped here & were sub par in every way ( I think China kinda ruined the scoot scene for a second). Cal is my favorite state, & it sucks that they (EPA OR WUT EVER) are doing this to a company that clearly wants to provide not only scooters, but quality ones at that. Alot of people got ripped off trying to be green during the gas pinch, buying scoots that they still can't even get registered or even start, (my home girl Freedom) {written by me Aug 27}

2 stroke wrote:
It's not SHADY, that's not a fair adjective to use. They didn't meet spec, apparently it's something relatively superficial, but something Genuine and LML had no reason to expect a problem with. Genuine wasn't trying to sneak contraband scooters over the border in the dark of night, they're a company that couldn't be more dedicated to scootering and scooterists (and the ONLY major importer whose income is based ONLY on scooter sales). They've been doing this for years now and felt they were in the right, but Customs (after years of looking the other way and allowing boatloads of REAL junk in) finally cracked down on the regulations, apparently to the extreme. Genuine argued their case, lost, and there's NO OTHER OPTION but to send them back (Well, i suppose they could be DESTROYED!), just as would be done with any foreign product that doesn't meet spec, however flagrant or superficial.

LOL 2 stroke, you totally jacked my hypothesis, but you didn't sound like a stoner and you made it sound better so carry on.

[EvilTweety]

I'm a patient person for the most part. A steady flow of information would be nice. What I want to know about is this " "rewards" program for those loyal and super patient people" that Mr. McCaleb mentioned in an email to dealers on August 13th.

[bdonay]

but no one wanted to talk about the Stella, so it's clearly pretty hush-hush

Your friends at genuine won't even talk to you about this? Don't you think that's SSSHHHAAADDDY?

[JoshWED]

Your friends at genuine won't even talk to you about this? Don't you think that's SSSHHHAAADDDY?

[illnoise]

It's a little out of character, but they probably have a legitimate reason not to, and they don't owe me anything.

Here's some more background:

My 2007 Blur doesn't have US-market DOT turn signals. It was approved that way by DOT/EPA/etc and it's 100% legal. Genuine didn't cheat or bribe or do anything weird to get it approved, it just went through as-is. I don't know how far off spec they are, but the DOT thought they were close enough, or Genuine managed to convince them they were.

The 2010 Blur 220 surely had to go through a new approval process, since it's a new engine. IT has ugly aftermarket turn signals. The design of the bike frame and bodywork is exactly the same, so the only change in that time is that the enforcing bodies got stricter.

The same is surely true of the Stella. Genuine's been importing them for years, but with the new engine, a new certification was required (and rightly so!). It WAS certified, and approved. Now what we've all heard happened was that a component varied from spec. But what if that component was something that changed every few months on the old runs of 2-stroke Stellas and no one ever cared? What if that component had been approved in the past and wasn't this time?

On top of all that, on top of the general crackdown on all scooters, we know at least one concrete example/reason: A MAJOR private certification company was busted recently for forging paperwork for four no-name Chinese importers. That same company brags on their website that they do certification for over 100 automobile and motorcycle importers. The government has said they will be re-examining all paperwork and re-inspecting all bikes imported by anyone who used this company for their paperwork. I've never found out if Genuine used them for their certs paperwork, but if they do (and it's likely, or at least possible), then anything Genuine brings in is going to be under intense scrutiny. And that would explain why bikes that were already approved were re-examined and rejected over something (allegedly) trivial.

So maybe Genuine is suing these guys (the certification consultants), or fighting it out with LML over all this money they've spent, or whatever, and doesn't want to bring attention to the details of the case. That seems mighty understandable that they don't want me posting on my blog and trying to point fingers before they have their arguments worked out. And they don't want 200 posts on Modern Buddy quoting anonymous Genuine employees who may not have the facts right anyway.

Again, it's all speculation, but if you ask me, or dealers, or people at Genuine, it's just a cruddy situation and everyone's doing everything they can to get the bikes here ASAP. There may be secrets and confusion and disagreements, but to assume that anytime someone keeps a secret, there's something sinister or shady, that seems unnecessary to me.

If your wife is hiding your joint credit card bill, she MIGHT be dealing heroin and AK-47s, OR she might have bought you a really nice birthday present. It comes down to whether you trust her or not, and her history of responsibility. Legally, she's innocent until proven guilty, right? Some importers maybe don't deserve the benefit of our doubt, but I think Genuine does.

[JoshWED]

I see your point.

[chibud]

They had all colors in

[ericalm]

They had all colors in

Wha–uh–really? Were they for sale on the dealer floor? Wow!

[Silver Streak]

Don't ya just hate it when somebody teases you with a little bit of information and then disappears?