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How to avoid dropping a scooter as a noobie
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:47 pm
by jmer1234
I am a yet to be first time scooter owner anxiously awaiting the release of the Stella 4t. As I have been envisioning my morning rides to work, grocery getting, cruise through the countryside, etc., in the back of my mind I have been dreading the eventual drop of my new baby. Can anyone give their input as to what I should do or not do as a noobie to try to mitigate this risk. What are the common mistakes that all noobies make? The last thing I want to do is leave the dealership, pull into my driveway, shut the engine off and BANG...SCRAPE.
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:56 pm
by Campbell990
The best thing you can do, imo, is take the MSF course. This will get you a feel for riding on two wheels while shifting and performing the various skills you will need to help you stay upright and safe.
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:59 pm
by Silver Streak
Some of the most common newbie low-speed drops occur when putting a foot down inadvertently on a slippery or uneven surface when coming to a stop, and when executing very low-speed tight turns. Practice, and more practice, is the solution to the latter.
Another common drop situation is when turning off the road into a driveway. There are often unanticipated accumulations of gravel or sand and/or uneven, broken pavement in these spots. You always need to anticipate the worst.
If you find yourself on gravel, gradually slow way down, avoid sudden application of the brakes or throttle, and make all turns very gently. If it is deep gravel, you may have to go very slowly (walking speed) and "Flintstone" it with your feet as outriggers.
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:05 pm
by BuddyRaton
Those painted road markings can be very slippery when wet. I have made it a habit to never put my feet down on them...wet or dry.
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:33 pm
by illnoise
I've dropped a bike five times
3 of the five were nearly standing still:
1: Arriving at my destination after a three-hour ride, i was so loopy and used to being on the bike, I just forgot to put my foot down. (It happens a lot more than you'd think.)
2: accelerating from a standstill on gravel, I lost traction in the rear tire and put my foot down, and it also slipped on the gravel.
3: sitting at a stoplight in a long channel under the El tracks, a gust of wind just plain knocked me over because I didn't have both feet down.
None of those damaged me or the bike, but they were all embarrassing and could have been worse.
The other two were "Traps" that they teach you about in MSF, in both cases I knew better but thought I could outsmart 'em.
1. Wedged the tire in a railroad track groove going 25mph, flipped the bike over, it landed on me. it was a smallframe vespa (250lb) and I was 25, so it wasn't too big a deal, banged up the frame and hurt my leg a bit.
2. hit a wet/icy smooth manhole cover while cornering in the rain. This time I was 40 and I just went down hard and broke a rib. The older you get, the more damage you can do in a minor spill. that was a year ago and my rib still hurts sometimes.
Again, the MSF class would teach you about all those things, but you have to listen and learn and think, and even then, we all make mistakes (and worse yet, other people make more mistakes than you do, so you need to look out for them, to).
Bb.
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:27 am
by jmer1234
I am definitely going to take a MSF course. I am wanting to schedule it when the Stellas are finally released so that it is fresh in my mind when I finally get to bring one home. The last thing I want to do is take the course, and then have it get stale in my mind as the weeks turn into months with the EPA. If I understand it correctly, anyway, Texas has revised the laws requiring proof that you have passed a motorcycle safety class because they no longer administer a driving test, and only have a written test to get the M classification on your drivers license.
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:39 am
by illnoise
In the meantime, order David L. Hough's books "Proficient Motorcycling" and "More Proficient Motorcycling," and read them over and over and over and over. And memorize that test booklet from your state DMV (in most states, you can download a PDF)
When you're driving, pretend you're on a bike and start looking for the traps… manhole covers, steel plates, railroad tracks, fresh rain, tricky traffic situations… once you know what to look for, you'll start seeing things. Like the hood of a car dipping right before a turn, stuff like that.
This is a quick idea, but only the tip of the iceberg. I wish they'd do a hundred more of these tests:
http://2strokebuzz.com/2010/04/30/msfs- ... tion-tests
Bb.
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:11 am
by dawg onit
Phx , it hardly rains, when it does, all the oil caked in for months @ a time turns into quite a slippery stance. As soon as this happens I transfer my weight to what ever foot is not slipping. Sounds easy, but add a quick stop to this scenario and hopefully you don't fall over like a bicyclist stuck to his pedals. (been there, done that)
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:50 pm
by jmer1234
dawg onit wrote:Sounds easy, but add a quick stop to this scenario and hopefully you don't fall over like a bicyclist stuck to his pedals. (been there, done that)
As a 25 year cyclist, I am hoping that some of that experience will come into play and help me identify approaching issues. My primary concern is there is a huge difference between a 14.5 pound bicycle cruising at 20 mph and a 250 pound motorcycle cruising at 40 mph. And it is the forgetting to un-clip your feet scenario for a noobie cyclist that spurred this question to begin with.
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:53 pm
by jmer1234
What about riding in groups rules and etiquette?
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:06 pm
by illnoise
jmer1234 wrote:What about riding in groups rules and etiquette?
there's a great PDF on the MSF site about that, that's the de-facto guide for most group rides, but always listen before the ride for any specific plans or rules, sometimes with bigger groups decisions have to be made in advance about blocking traffic lights and stragglers and stuff like that.
In general, just read that, then try to go with the flow and let the organizers herd everybody, seems to me most problems (in groups) happen when someone's trying to show off and/or trying to be a hero and "help" the organizers without being asked.
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:10 pm
by glamourgirrrl
My only drop so far has been the "hop off and forget to hold the scooter" kind. I was pretty new at riding and got rattles by a kid and a bunny running in front of me and I just got off. It did do cosmetic damage to the scooter. The more I ride the more comfortable I get though!
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:05 pm
by siobhan
The ground at gas stations can be very slippery so be careful when you first pull up and stop. Your foot can slip on the gas/oil/other car liquids on the ground.
I almost dropped a bike at the gas station because I was so hot and tired from riding (similar situation to illnoise), and my foot slipped on gas or transmission fluid, but some fast-thinking stranger on a Ninja at another pump actually grabbed the bike and propped me up.
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:16 am
by SpinQueen
And don't forget to remove your lock before you take off riding
I learned this the hard way, but I also learned that my 110-pound body could lift my 1975 Honda 360, thank goodness. I seem to recall reading, that one of the biggest newbie errors is making turns that are too wide. I saw this in action at a Vespa dealership. Some college grad sat on her brand new scoot and proceeded to learn to ride it in the parking lot. The sales guy mentioned that she might want to take the safety class first but she was too gung-ho and jumped right on. As the sales rep went inside to help me, the girl pulled out of a driveway down the street and gave the throttle too much gas and hit the curb on the other side of the street as she attempted to make a turn. Final outcome: a broken mirror, scratched up scooter, and a sprained ankle.
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:03 pm
by polianarchy
Wheelz wrote:jmer1234 wrote:dawg onit wrote:Sounds easy, but add a quick stop to this scenario and hopefully you don't fall over like a bicyclist stuck to his pedals. (been there, done that)
As a 25 year cyclist, I am hoping that some of that experience will come into play and help me identify approaching issues. My primary concern is there is a huge difference between a 14.5 pound bicycle cruising at 20 mph and a 250 pound motorcycle cruising at 40 mph. And it is the forgetting to un-clip your feet scenario for a noobie cyclist that spurred this question to begin with.
Did that one time as not a noobie cyclist, after a long ride i was bonked and really out of it stopped at a stop light on my way home, and damn if I didn't forget I had feet attached to the bike and at least one of them should have been touching the ground, next thing ya know, TIMBER! I'm layed out in the middle of clark street.
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:04 pm
by polianarchy
jijifer wrote:I'd like to recommend you get some skillz on your scooter before joining group rides. most of the crashes in our meet up are people brand new to scooting and/or people who just got a new scooter (as in learned on one scoot and just switched to something bigger).
I may be in the minority but I don't feel like learning to scoot should be done in a group -- that is I feel you should join a group only after you know how to handle your scooter in all kinds of circumstances and all kinds of roads and conditions and are comfortable and know you limits. That said, I joined the meet up with only 400miles under my belt and without having completed MSF. I made at least 3 riders peel off the group with my lack of understanding of group dynamic and my swerving in delight and joy on that first ride
with in a month I was taken down by another relatively inexperienced rider while I was stopped at a light on group ride and it forever have changed my perspective on when folks should join organized group rides.
Group riding is faster, a little more attention is required because you have to be predictable to other riders who are a lot closer to you than you are used to on the open road. You need to know how to handle obstacles in your path as swerving isn't always possible in group formation and often I see newbies riding beyond their skill level just to keep pace and that gives me a heart attack every time. NO ONE wants to see a friend go down and well, the San Diego Scooter Squadron has see several members go down
get MSF under belt. Find one or 2 people who are patient and want to help you learn. Get really familiar with your scooter and you skill THEN join a group! That's my advice.
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:04 pm
by polianarchy
gt1000 wrote:I may be in the minority but I don't feel like learning to scoot should be done in a group
Not sure about being in the minority, but I definitely agree with you. I've seen a number of folks in group rides who were over their heads for whatever reason. Some fell, some knocked down others but the most common issue was some folks not having the skill or confidence to stop quickly enough when the group stopped. Know yourself and your machine before attempting a large group ride.
As for avoiding the big drop? It's impossible to cover every eventuality, there are lots of hazards out there. One thing that I've seen take down inexperienced and experienced riders is that little "wedge" where a hill or sloping driveway meets level pavement. Trying a sharp turn or sudden stop in that area can really trick you. Plus, if your scoot or bike has a high seat and you have difficulty flat footing both feet at stops, you won't be able to flat foot at all if you stop in the wedge. Beware the wedge!
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:04 pm
by polianarchy
jmer1234 wrote:Thank you, everyone. This is exactly the kind of advice I am looking for. Keep it coming.
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:05 pm
by polianarchy
I'm sorry. I was trying to remove a troll post & I messed it up again.
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:07 pm
by JHScoot
^ hey forget riding skills work on those internet skills!!!
great test there. i got 18/20. not too shabby
also more on topic i found this about how even a person of limited strength can pic up a heavy bike
http://www.pinkribbonrides.com/dropped.html
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:19 pm
by siobhan
My only comment on how to pick up a heavy bike if you're not the strongest thing in the world is this: those videos are always shot with a bike lying nicely on a flat, even, asphalt surface with no panniers or other gear. Try doing it on a downward sloping hill in gravel. Ain't so easy any more. That's when you just sit in the shade by the side of the road listening for a truck. When said truck crests the hill, you run over waving your arms, and drunk guy screeches to a halt. He then jumps out of the cab and single-handedly wrestles the bike into an upright position, and burps out the suggestion that it might be a good idea to the move the bike to the side. Not that I have any first hand experience.
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:40 pm
by JHScoot
^ well i must admit that scenario does sound much more entertaining!
i shall try to find a youtube video to demonstrate that method
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:12 am
by JunkyardDog
First of all, I highly recommend the MSF course. The second thing is to get over the fact that dropping your bike is inevitable, that everybody does it. They don't.
I have owned more than 30 street bikes and 5 scooters. I have been riding on the street for 35 years and over 400,000 miles. I have never dropped a street bike or scooter. You mostly pay attention to what you are doing. The Stella would be easy to drop because if you grab the left grip while it is running and on the centerstand, it will go into gear and lurch forward. The main reason for this, is unlike other scooters, on the Stella, it's the REAR wheel thats on the ground, not the FRONT. This happened to me a couple of times but I caught it before I dropped it. Now I know to watch out for that.
Another reason I have never dropped a bike, is that they mean a lot to me, and I am careful with them. I am very cautious and deliberate when riding slow, turning, or pushing them. If I were to drop a bike, it would probably be for sale on Craigslist the next day, because I wouldn't want it anymore, unless it was already a rat. None of my 6 bikes have ever been dropped.
The final reason I have never dropped a street bike is because I started riding at age 8, on a Bultaco Lobito 100, which I dropped plenty of times. By the time I was 12, with a Honda Elsinore 250, I was lapping the local MX track as fast as riders twice my age, doing wheelies, jumps, and slides, and yeah, still falling down once in a while. By the time I got my license at 16, I already had 8 years experience on dirt bikes, doing things you could never do on the street. I found street riding to be really easy compared to hardcore dirt riding. And finally, attitude. If you are absolutely convinced you are going to drop your bike, you will. Just remember you don't have to. Many people with a lot more street experience than me have never dropped a bike, and they were beginners at some point too.
If you are still convinced you are going to drop it, get a beater Chinese scooter, ride it around, get used to riding, drop it a few times to get that out of the way, then get a new scooter. If you are waiting on a 4T Stella, it looks like you have plenty of time. Jerry.
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:54 pm
by JoshWED
junkyard is sooooo coool.
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:32 pm
by fobbish
One more thing, don't lend your scooter to your friends. That's a good way to drop it.