Quick question about heat

pesce · Post by **pesce** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:50 pm

I've put around 1000 miles on my Stella 4t.

The MPG has dwindled recently and I'm now noticing lots of heat on the right side foot area.

After about a mile or so of full throttle on a country road, I stall at stop signs.

I did the "spit" test on the exhaust and it boiled off instantly (of course). Then I did the spit test on the crank case and it boiled off instantly as well.

I have enough oil in the scoot. Perhaps I just hadn't noticed the heat before.

Any one have any input?

pesce · Post by **pesce** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:52 am

On a related note, anyone find a copy of the service manual for the 4t?

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:57 am

No service manual available for the 4T.

There were links to it on some of the UK sites, but they all got pulled down. I asked around everywhere, posting on the LML UK forum, their Facebook page, emailing places that formerly had or were rumored to have it and got nothing. I suspect LML asked all to remove the links.

As for the heat… Have you had your first service?

pesce · Post by **pesce** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:17 am

Thanks Eric, yes I have had my first service, however they are now defunct and I am worried the 4t was a little too new for them. I'm not entirely convinced they did a proper service... But I may be wrong.

Ever since the service, my mpg has dropped and the stalling began.

Upon initial delivery the owner told me they couldn't mess with the carb because the epa and genuine told them not to. Doesn't really sit well with me.

Does your right foot feel like it's on fire while riding? My shoe burns and I smell rubber!
Haha!

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:00 am

Is the exhaust perhaps restricted? If I remember right,t he 4T is a catalyzed exhaust. Perhaps the packing inside failed and is causing restriction. As strange as that would be, it would easily describe the overheating and loss of power suddenly. That would be the first thing I would check.

pesce · Post by **pesce** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:02 am

Awesome! Thanks for the tip!

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:11 pm

pesce wrote:Thanks Eric, yes I have had my first service, however they are now defunct and I am worried the 4t was a little too new for them. I'm not entirely convinced they did a proper service... But I may be wrong.

Ever since the service, my mpg has dropped and the stalling began.

Upon initial delivery the owner told me they couldn't mess with the carb because the epa and genuine told them not to. Doesn't really sit well with me.

Does your right foot feel like it's on fire while riding? My shoe burns and I smell rubber!
Haha!

Well… yes, the EPA and CARB do not want anyone messing with the carburetor, in particular the air/fuel screw. And yes, the scooter will not run at its best for anything other than emissions and MPGs with the stock setting. It's conceivable that some people may be replacing this screw with one for, say, a Bajaj 4T or other scooter, and then richening up the air/fuel mix a bit. This might also improve the stalling issue.

It's the heat that has me a bit baffled. I would first try changing the oil, just in case the wrong weight was put in at service. There is an oil filter in the Stella, but it's well-hidden, a total pain to access and probably only needs changing every other service. (I had over 3K on my filter on my first Stella 4T, which is probably a bit much, but had changed the oil twice and cleaned the screen, which is all some scooter have anyways. Ran fine.)

Next, I'd have a look at the Genuine video on prepping the Stella 4T:
http://vimeo.com/20618680
With no local dealer, I'd consider re-doing much of this, just to sort of establish a baseline. It may not fix the issue, but you'll know you're starting off with everything as it should be.

I've been hearing about MANY Stella 4Ts coming out of shops improperly prepped and having related issues later. I also know that some shops are doing a "superprep" and have added to what they do before sending a Stella 4T out the door, such as checking the electrical, replacing the fuse holder with a stronger blade fuse, etc.

desmolicious · Post by **desmolicious** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:58 pm

pesce wrote:Ever since the service, my mpg has dropped and the stalling began.

Umm, yeah, they bogarted your bike.

I have just over 1K miles on my Stella, and no heat issues.

Check the video link that Eric posted, and go over your bike. It's actually really simple. I would also check your valves - it sounds like they may have messed those up. The video shows how and you can get the tools they use from motoport.
There is another thread on this site where I show the tools. I think they cost $40.

pesce · Post by **pesce** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:04 pm

Fantastic guys! Thank you! Any oil suggestions? I noticed the dipstick says one thing and the owners manual says another.

Silver Streak · Post by **Silver Streak** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:16 pm

You don't really need the special valve tools... they just make the job a little easier. All you need is a flat-blade screwdriver, a box-end wrench and a feeler gauge.

Thadsgood · Post by **Thadsgood** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:33 pm

I also have a "new" 4t and have noticed the heat around my feet. I wonder how much heat is "normal" for the Stella/Px. It is definitely noticeable after 15 minutes of riding. The plug doesn't look like it's running that lean but...howmuch heat is too much>?

I'm really tempted to dismantle the entire evap system and make sure the air mixture screw is not lean. I've heard someone else mention you need to order that screw from a Bajaj 4t for example. Is this true?

It's a catch 22 for us owners, let the scoot run lean (hot) and risk damage or dismantle the mandated system just to make it run right. Of course, I worry about the damage to the engine far down the line (not within the two year warranty). I think the fact that my dealer, Scoot around Town, is now out of business makes it even more difficult to decide because another unknown dealer might not look so favorably at removing the emission control stuff. Ugh.

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:06 pm

I can only speak from the vantage point of an 05 T-2 Stella owner......no heat issues that I've noticed.

pesce · Post by **pesce** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:53 pm

Thadsgood wrote:I also have a "new" 4t and have noticed the heat around my feet. I wonder how much heat is "normal" for the Stella/Px. It is definitely noticeable after 15 minutes of riding. The plug doesn't look like it's running that lean but...howmuch heat is too much>?

I'm really tempted to dismantle the entire evap system and make sure the air mixture screw is not lean. I've heard someone else mention you need to order that screw from a Bajaj 4t for example. Is this true?

It's a catch 22 for us owners, let the scoot run lean (hot) and risk damage or dismantle the mandated system just to make it run right. Of course, I worry about the damage to the engine far down the line (not within the two year warranty). I think the fact that my dealer, Scoot around Town, is now out of business makes it even more difficult to decide because another unknown dealer might not look so favorably at removing the emission control stuff. Ugh.

I'm totally in the same boat.

desmolicious · Post by **desmolicious** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:31 pm

I think that those who have heat issues should really check the valve specs on their bikes before doing anything else.
The valves should have been adjusted at the 500 mile service (and maybe even at the prep if you go by the prep video).
Many shops do not do this.

My bike does not run hot.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:33 pm

From a mechanic...check the valves, and make sure you have no intake air leaks that will make it hot quick!

You can check that quickly with a can of carb cleaner Spray around the carb and the intakes. See if the idle changes when you spray anywhere. If it does? You found the leak.

pesce · Post by **pesce** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:42 pm

Fantastic! I can't wait to break it apart! Thank you very much. I'll post pictures.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:12 pm

desmolicious wrote:I think that those who have heat issues should really check the valve specs on their bikes before doing anything else.

I'm with desmolicious on this. Be sure the valves are set to spec before you go off shooting in the dark at things like removing the emission control system or modifying the carburettor.

Thadsgood · Post by **Thadsgood** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:11 pm

Well, i agree with the vslvr check but taking off thr emission stuff is almost a separate issue. I think for it to run its optimum that has to be removed eventuslly. The only thing holding me back has been the warranty issue. That emission fontrol is coming off at some point no matter what. Im thinking of the long term and having that engine last.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:04 am

Thadsgood wrote:That emission control is coming off at some point no matter what. Im thinking of the long term and having that engine last.

Everyone has opinions on this and I'm not trying to change yours - I'll just comment that there are thousands of Buddys and even more Vespas that are still running around with intact emission (fuel evaporation) control systems. No sign of premature failure that I am aware of on those engines.

Thadsgood · Post by **Thadsgood** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:14 am

I wasn't questioning your advice, I understand it and agree in principle. I'm just telling you, and others, the stella is running hot and not optimally. After checking the valves I'm going to be removing the emissions control at some point. The scoot obviously wasn't designed to have it so I have to believe it's peak performance is going to be when it gets adjusted correctly after its removal. Everyone has to make their own decision, I just wish I wouldn't have to make it. It'd be great if its peak performance was WITH the emissions control, then it'd be the best of all worlds.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:54 am

Another thing to check would be the spark plug. I have a Rattler 110 that burned up the engine twice because the recommended plug was too hot to meet emissions requirements. Once it got to me, at 3200 ft elevation, it was just too much. Created too much heat and detonation. I replaced it with a colder plug, lost no performance and the top end never fried again. Just a thought.

--Keys

Thadsgood · Post by **Thadsgood** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:23 pm

I wonder what a cooler plug for the stella 4t would be.

Thadsgood · Post by **Thadsgood** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:23 pm

Here's the answer I got directly from geniune

"Regarding the heat you are feeling at you feet. Are you certain that the engine is running hotter than normal or is it possibly just the heat radiating up off the exhaust. The catalytic is just below the floorboard and is one of the hottest components of the exhaust. That heat will be much more noticeable on hotter days.

The synthetic oil will help remove some of the heat because of it's ability to circulate better. The spark plug installed is equal to a NGK C8EH9, you could always install a C9EH9 which is one point higher (cooler). The last possibility is to raise the needle in the carb (moving the clip down one notch to the 4th grove from the top) allowing the motor to run a touch richer. This can be seel on page 58 in the service manual."

By the way, the response came within one working day, I think that's a good response time.

pesce · Post by **pesce** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:49 pm

I set my valves to spec. 0.002" and switched to cooler spark plug and changed the oil. So far so good.

Top valve was way the hell off. Maybe 1/16 of an inch! Yikes!

pesce · Post by **pesce** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:52 pm

Also discussed here topic19966.html