Modern Buddy

I've always had a long love for scooters, going back 10 years or so. Blowing off all my friends and family and their negativity towards them. But I hate to break it to them.. I'm 27 and I think I'm mature enough to make my own decisions, but you all probably know how everyone is that doesn't favor scooters "they are bla bla bla, this and that"

So anyway yeah.. My name is Kevin btw

So I've always looked the vintage Vespa PX look. But since you can't buy those off the show room floor new anymore I've got some interest in the Stella... I know India doesn't always have the best reputation for pumping out entirely reliable things but what is everyones feedback on the durability of their Stella?

Are the 2 strokers still made and available for purchase? Or did the EPA outlaw them.. If the case are the 4T's pretty peppy? I don't want a interstate warrior here just something to get me around town.. If it can all day long do 35-50mph even 55 I would be one happy guy... I have a 50 mile round trip travel to work, even though I have a 42mpg Honda Fit it can become quite expensive long term.

Being 4 speed manual I can see the Stella being quicker and faster then say a LX150 Vespa CVT, but how do they really compare? I do prefer the older stylings though but wouldn't be up for passing on either. I guess I'm in the market for a 150cc range model.. Don't need any of that 300cc Vespa craziness to go 80mph cause I don't ever plan on taking it on any roads that would require me to go that fast regardless.

Kevin

First off, most any auto 150cc scooter (buddy, Vespa 150 etc) will smoke a Stella. So if it is speed you want, you are not going to get it with a Stella unless you get a 2T model and due some major tuning work to it.

But.. manual shift scooters are lots of fun, for me more fun than autos (which I also have) just because they are more involving.

I recently sold my Stella 4T after putting just over 1100 miles on it. I still have a 2005 Vespa PX 150. The fact that I sold one but not the other pretty much shows how I rate them.

There are still like new 2005 PX 150 Vespas out there. Recently a batch of them were sold from storage. An internet search (google, scoot.net, craigslist, cycletrader) should be able to locate one.

If you want a manual shift scoot, like new, this would be my first option.
If you want one with a warranty, then the Stella is your option.

The key with the Stella 4T is to buy one from a dealership that has real experience in setting them up. There is a lot more involved than many shops do, and a proper set up will head off potential issues down the line.

p.s. a Stella 4T will be able to to 35-45mph all day long. 55mph is about its top speed, on flat, in perfect conditions. So you're not going to be able to cruise at that speed. If you want to be able to cruise at 50mph+, then I'd recommend a Buddy.

So in all honesty something like a Vespa LX150 would be a little quicker?

Being that the roads around here are 40-55mph... it's not advised running something like a Stella at a constant speed of 50-55 for like 30 miles?

Would the LX150 be ok with sustained higher speed?

Tweek wrote:So in all honesty something like a Vespa LX150 would be a little quicker?

Being that the roads around here are 40-55mph... it's not advised running something like a Stella at a constant speed of 50-55 for like 30 miles?

Would the LX150 be ok with sustained higher speed?

I have not ridden the LX 150, but do own a Buddy 150 (and Vespa 250 amongst other bikes) so my direct comparisons are with the Buddy. But from what I have heard, the Vespa LX150 is just a little slower.

That being said, the Buddy is much much faster than the Stella. Not just a little quicker, a lot quicker.
The Stella is not appropriate for 50-55mph for 30 miles. It is much more of a mellow, stop and smell the roses ride. As is the PX 150.

Ericalm on this site has experience with the LX and Buddy 150. I think he wrote a comparison. Hopefully he can chime in (or you can PM him) with his take.

"Higher speed" is also a relative term. The LX150 is ok at 55-60mph, but you have VERY little room above that (like 2-4mph on your top end, and zero hard acceleration available). PX150's, Stellas and the like are happy around 45-55mph, depending on which type you get. Stellas also have EPA/CARB-approved restrictions that make the 2-strokes slower, and the 4-strokes an absolute dog when compared to more modern automatic offerings. Even my P200, which SHOULD do almost 70 on a good day is comfy at 55-60 but not much more than that unless you want to be vibrated to death.

Then why get a manual shift? Well, they are FAR easier to work on and can be bodged together with a spare cable and 15 minutes if something goes amiss. And, you can even change a flat! Modern Automatics aren't as simple. They are fairly easy to work on, but more complex than a Stella or a P-series. And, most of the work that you will do on average can be done with fairly basic tools, while the more modern fuel injected scooters like the LX150 require more expensive equipment. Then there's the 4-stroke vs 2-stroke issue. Most shifter scoots (except for the Stella 4-stroke) are 2-stroke oil burning petrol engines. This has a whole host of unique issues and maintenance levels that you will not find on a 4 stroke bike.

If you're going for out-and-out performance, rule out a shifter scooter. The LX150, Buddy, and other quality automatic scooters will run circles around a vintage or vintage-styled shifter scooter. But, a Stella or P-series can be even more durable and a TON more fun for the everyday ride if you don't need to be the fastest all day long

desmolicious wrote:

Tweek wrote:So in all honesty something like a Vespa LX150 would be a little quicker?

Being that the roads around here are 40-55mph... it's not advised running something like a Stella at a constant speed of 50-55 for like 30 miles?

Would the LX150 be ok with sustained higher speed?

The Stella is not appropriate for 50-55mph for 30 miles. It is much more of a mellow, stop and smell the roses ride. As is the PX 150.

That's one person's opinion. I rode a stock, 2t Stella from Tulsa to OKC and back on Rt 66 last weekend. 100+ miles each way. While I was there, I put another 100 or so miles on it. I make that trip at least 4 times a year. Just depends on your comfort zone. I think it's entirely appropriate.

desmolicious wrote: The Stella is not appropriate for 50-55mph for 30 miles.

While I agree with much of what you say, Desmo, I don't agree with this statement.

My 4T feels like it could cruise all day at that speed.

Well I'm not really going for all out performance per say... I'm really just looking for something that can comfortably go 55mph on flat ground for a little while.. so I don't get run over. I figured but it may not be true due to it's power output but some of the steeper hills around here I thought might be more manageable with a shift scoot. downshift into the power range and so forth like my car.

I don't really know how a modern CVT delivers power for higher stress situations, I'm not really ever considered about having to carry a passenger or a real heavy load though.

I guess is all I just really have always like the Stella look so much.. and really I'm limited to something as powerful as a LX150, or Buddy.. As much as I'd like to have a Vespa GTS 300... I'm kinda looking for something at the MAXXXXX of what the LX is going for...

I saw an article of a Stella/PX looking scoot called the LML Star and is now available in 200cc, what's that all about?

Not much I can add, every one has given you solid advice. As for reliability of the Stella, I've got 17K on my 2-T with no issues.

@ Keith.. That's good to hear, cause that's actually a big part of what I'm going at.. Sure I could go out and get a Honda... But let me put it this way...

I had a VW GTI that I felt when I drove it had heart and soul.. I now have a Honda Fit and I just feel like it's a car.. Sure reliable as hell, but I feel that If I go get a Honda scooter it won't have the soul and fell good riding aspects of a Stella, Vespa, and others. But I'm glad to hear good reliability of the Stella that is important...

I will also add one more thing that MOST of the roads that I would be traveling on to get to work are 40mph, but there is one that I have to travel on for about up to 20 miles that is 55... With that being said that's the fastest road and I can get anywhere around town on mostly 40-45mph roads.

Tweek wrote:Well I'm not really going for all out performance per say... I'm really just looking for something that can comfortably go 55mph on flat ground for a little while.. so I don't get run over. I figured but it may not be true due to it's power output but some of the steeper hills around here I thought might be more manageable with a shift scoot. downshift into the power range and so forth like my car.

I don't really know how a modern CVT delivers power for higher stress situations, I'm not really ever considered about having to carry a passenger or a real heavy load though.

I guess is all I just really have always like the Stella look so much.. and really I'm limited to something as powerful as a LX150, or Buddy.. As much as I'd like to have a Vespa GTS 300... I'm kinda looking for something at the MAXXXXX of what the LX is going for...

I saw an article of a Stella/PX looking scoot called the LML Star and is now available in 200cc, what's that all about?

In theory, a well-ridden shifty scooter with equal horsepower to one with a CVT should pull hills a little faster because the CVT has more frictional losses. However, the main problem is that the Stella engine just makes less horsepower than most modern 150cc CVT scooters.

The CVT does a pretty good job of automatically adjusting the gearing to cope with high-load situations, but the sliding belt drive has more power loss to friction than a direct gear drive under all situations. That's why a 4T shifty gets way better fuel economy than a belt-drive CVT.

The LML Star is the rest-of-the-world's version of the Stella (LML makes the Stella for Genuine). The 200cc version is available only outside the US, at least for now.

Silver Streak wrote:

desmolicious wrote: The Stella is not appropriate for 50-55mph for 30 miles.

While I agree with much of what you say, Desmo, I don't agree with this statement.

My 4T feels like it could cruise all day at that speed.

There is a difference between actual speed and indicated speed with these scoots.
I've gone past a bunch of radar signs, and on the flat in perfect conditions the actual real speed of the Stella 4T is about 52-55mph. Of course the bike indicated 60+mph...

What this means is that you have to have it completely wide open the entire time to maintain 50+mph speeds, and hope you don't see any inclines. Doing this for 30 miles is a little unfair on the scoot, it was not designed for that.
Of course you can ride 30, 40 , 50 + miles all day long, but it prefers a more sedate pace.

I found a couple used GTS 300's in the area with low mileage for the prices of like a new LX150.. Not saying I'd jump into that. But what would be the take on going bigger used?


I even found for $4100 a new never titled with 1 mile, silver Vespa PX150 2005, at a scooter dealer in Atlanta.. But really after I've been reading more into what you've all been saying I think something like a Buddy, LX150, or even bigger might be the best bet. I'm really worried about getting too underpowered of scoot and hitting some of the hills around here to be run over cause it can only go 20mph up it..

Tweek wrote:I found a couple used GTS 300's in the area with low mileage for the prices of like a new LX150.. Not saying I'd jump into that. But what would be the take on going bigger used?


I even found for $4100 a new never titled with 1 mile, silver Vespa PX150 2005, at a scooter dealer in Atlanta.. But really after I've been reading more into what you've all been saying I think something like a Buddy, LX150, or even bigger might be the best bet. I'm really worried about getting too underpowered of scoot and hitting some of the hills around here to be run over cause it can only go 20mph up it..

The PX is great but its top speed is also about 55mph. I love mine..
Getting a used Vespa 250GTS or 300 is a great option. These are bikes which can easily cruise at 70mph. They are also very smooth and comfortable, as well as quick for a scooter.

Whatever you do you should get training etc - and the Motorcycle Safety Foundation provides that. With that you will not have an issue with the scoots. The 250/300s still are much smaller than 99% of motorbikes!

desmolicious wrote:

Silver Streak wrote:

desmolicious wrote: The Stella is not appropriate for 50-55mph for 30 miles.

While I agree with much of what you say, Desmo, I don't agree with this statement.

My 4T feels like it could cruise all day at that speed.

There is a difference between actual speed and indicated speed with these scoots.
I've gone past a bunch of radar signs, and on the flat in perfect conditions the actual real speed of the Stella 4T is about 52-55mph. Of course the bike indicated 60+mph...

What this means is that you have to have it completely wide open the entire time to maintain 50+mph speeds, and hope you don't see any inclines. Doing this for 30 miles is a little unfair on the scoot, it was not designed for that.
Of course you can ride 30, 40 , 50 + miles all day long, but it prefers a more sedate pace.

My Stella speedo is more accurate than the ones on my Vespas. Indicated 55 = true 52.

I agree that cruising over 50 requires WOT nearly all the time, but that engine is so breathing-restricted that you are nowhere near taxing the rpm/mechanical potential of the engine. It is hardly straining.

If you're worried about hills, then a shfiter scooter is where it's at. You have the ability to select a lower gearing to push more torque, and unlike a CVT, you can swap out what gear you're in depending on the changing grade. This will allow you to keep speed when most CVT's are just spinning at one constant. I also feel that a 150 shifter scooter has more "grunt" with passengers or on hills than an auto scooter.

I had a VW GTI that I felt when I drove it had heart and soul.. I now have a Honda Fit and I just feel like it's a car.. Sure reliable as hell, but I feel that If I go get a Honda scooter it won't have the soul and fell good riding aspects of a Stella, Vespa, and others. But I'm glad to hear good reliability of the Stella that is important...

I hear you loud and clear. I had a Honda Civic to get from point A to point B. I also had a 76 MGB which I absolutely loved to drive. It wasn't nearly as reliable but that was the ride that had soul! Now, I have a Kymco Grand Vista for long distance rides. It has stability, power, torque, and qualities my Stella lacks. But, if I had to give up one of the scooters it would be the Grand Vista. The Stella is a hoot to ride.......old school, shifter, I can hardly get myself to go home when I'm riding it. It's a personal thing but that Stella has heart and soul for me. It also gets more comments from people than the Grand Vista. Whatever it may lack, that scooter has vintage style.

I'm also looking to get a Stella here. hows does it fit someone over 6ft?

scootavaran wrote:I'm also looking to get a Stella here. hows does it fit someone over 6ft?

Go sit on one and see. I think pretty good as you can scoot back on the seat as far as you want to go.

I sold mine to a dood who is 6'3". And he's happy.

I'm also looking to get a Stella here. hows does it fit someone over 6ft?

I'm guessing your head won't hit the roof. Go for it!

Hi, I live in Alabama also, near Auburn. You didn't say where in Alabama you are, but the nearest dealer would be in Birmingham, I think. Maybe Huntsville as well.

http://www.wowmotorcycles.com/view-bike ... 7&source=S

About the PX, this is from the place in Marietta, GA, where I bought my bike. They had several of these a few weeks ago but this appears to be the last.

I'm drawn to the Stella as well but since I live in a rural area, I'd also like a bit more top end, plus we no longer have a Genuine dealer in the area.

You're pretty hard core if a 42 mpg Fit still doesn't do it for you. Incidentally, that's exactly the figure mentioned to me by a guy I met at a gas station who also owned a Fit.

@Southerner. I live in Fort Payne, AL, one of the very north east cities of AL.

So did you end up getting a Stella or a PX? I can't really tell from your message.. I also wasn't aware that we no longer have a Genuine dealer that stinks.

In all honesty for self peace of mind, I'm thinking about just going ahead and waiting till the start of riding season next year and looking for a used GTS 250 or 300.. I know I won't need the 75/80mph capability but I like the idea of the overhead. But we shall see. I still can't give up on myself on the Stella and or used/new PX cause my passion for vintage scooters is strong.

EDIT: Wait I think you are saying you have a motorcycle right now and looking at a scooter.

I ride my Stella WOT all day long on interstates and long rides, recently went to Baltimore from Richmond and back with my girlfriend riding cupcake (about 450lb between the two of us) using route 301 and we were doing a happy 55mph indicated. Sure, my coil bracket snapped, but that's a common issue for people riding two up (it is now bolted to the frame), but the engine did great and could have kept going for much longer.
All I have done is added a sito+ pipe and upjetted accordingly (100main in the summer since it's super humid, 103 in the winter).

@Tweek: I wouldn't neglect browsing around during the off-season. A lot of stuff sits in the shop gathering dust during the winter and the vendors might be more willing to deal when sales are slow. I know you can get snow sometimes up that way, but you should still be able to do at least some riding (warmly bundled, of course) pretty much all year round.

@Lokky: You rode interstates @55mph? You're braver than I am. I might brave a short hop on I-85 since it runs through both Auburn and Opelika but I would be extremely nervous about it.

On flats, my broken in Stella 4T would do 60 (GPS'd) at WOT. The speedo is much more accurate than my Vespa LX or Buddy.

On a hill, even a non-injected LEADER 150 (like an ET or pre-2010 LX) will beat a Stella 4T. The newer, injected LXs will best one across the board in terms of speed. It will cruise 55mph comfortably with some room to gain.

On the steepest hill I ride almost daily, my LX (before modification and accounting for speedometer innacuracy) would do about 5-8mph faster than my Stella 4T.

The good news? Stock, and broken in, a 4T is actually faster than a 2T. It's also faster than many of the vintage Vespa 150s I've ridden with.

I think it's capable of a sustained 50-55mph as long as the road's relatively flat. I've taken mine out on some 55mph speed limit highways and had no problems. Wouldn't ride it on a freeway out here, though.

awesome info ericalm.. I'm realyl shocked to hear that a lot of people are agreeing that manual shift stella just isn't as good an a CVT up hills, I really would have thought differently. But it probably has to do with power not the fact its manual or not.

My only experience with CVT drives has been on Yamaha golf carts. We have one with the big offroad wheels. The thing will only run about 20 but hills present no problem whatever, I can tell you.

Keith wrote:

I'm also looking to get a Stella here. hows does it fit someone over 6ft?

I'm guessing your head won't hit the roof. Go for it!

yeah I was thinkin of the convertible.

Just dont want to look like a dude ridin a matchbox bike. i'm tall but very skinny.

Tweek wrote:awesome info ericalm.. I'm realyl shocked to hear that a lot of people are agreeing that manual shift stella just isn't as good an a CVT up hills, I really would have thought differently. But it probably has to do with power not the fact its manual or not.

It's not a dog and still outperforms many similar-sized 2T manuals. I've taken mine on some pretty hilly terrain and up into the mountains and it did fine (until I had problems with altitude, which is something else altogether). While it may not get me everywhere quite as fast as my LX, it's a joy to ride and sometimes "the ride" is what it's all about.


60+ on a flat! Even downhill, though, I can't get it faster than 65.

I would have to respectfully disagree that the shfiter scooters aren't as "good" up hills. The ability to shift into a lower gear when the need arises for me is far more appealing than just slugging it up the hill on a CVT while just pegging the throttle and hoping it's got grip to do it.

And, as for top speed when driving a Stella or a vintage Vespa, you find that that top seed is not as important as how fast you get to the speed you want, and what you can do with that speed once you get there. The CVT may put you in the "ideal" gear all the time, sometimes you want less or more torque at different times, and you just can't get that kind of control with a CVT.

neotrotsky wrote:I would have to respectfully disagree that the shfiter scooters aren't as "good" up hills. The ability to shift into a lower gear when the need arises for me is far more appealing than just slugging it up the hill on a CVT while just pegging the throttle and hoping it's got grip to do it.

I'm not making any sweeping CVT vs. shifter claims. All I'm saying is that a modern Piaggio 150 will beat a Stella 4T up a hill. And a Stella 2T. And most of the vintage 150s that I've ridden with.

Can you test ride Stellas? I know that when I helped my buddy over the years buy 2 motorcycles from different shops (Kawasaki Ninjas) that they won't prep them until sold aka they won't technically allow test rides.

What about equally being able to test ride a Vespa?

Depends on the shop. It's very hard to get insured if you allow test rides.
Do you have a motorcycle license/endorsement?

No, not yet, I was gonna wait till I was for certain going to get one, instead of possibly wasting my time.

yeah I was thinkin of the convertible.

Just dont want to look like a dude ridin a matchbox bike. i'm tall but very skinny.

You've got nothing to worry about. Nobody will be looking at you, they'll be gawking at your very cool Stella.

The P-series is the "largest" scooter Vespa made, and since the Stella shares the same dimensions, you should be good. I'm 6' even and my height fits perfect on it without looking awkward. As far as not having a Motorcycle endorsement and trying to get a test ride, I don't forsee that happening at any shop. Hell, most all shops in Arizona won't do test rides and I've been riding for 17 years licensed

Tweek wrote:No, not yet, I was gonna wait till I was for certain going to get one, instead of possibly wasting my time.

^^^^ So, not to be rude, but you expect a shop to allow you to test ride a bike or scooter that you don't even have a liscense to operate? For starters that would be asking them to break the law for you...

And, having worked in the biz...Can you imagine how bad it goes when a customer crashes a bike on a test drive and then just wants to walk away???

It SUCKS that the bike and scooter biz can't give test rides, but there are many reasons why.

noo noo, I haven't even sat on a Vespa or Stella yet, to know if I wanna get one.. I'd get a license before expecting anyone to let me test ride one.

For all I know I could sit on one, and be like nope, moving on. I plan on going to a few dealers coming up soon though.

The only thing I've ever sat on or ridden is a Honda Metropolitan, and that thing was cramped like a elephant in a suitcase. Din't like it. Plus only could do like 30.

Do you have any experience riding motos?

desmolicious wrote:Do you have any experience riding motos?

98 CBR600 F3, 2011 Ninja 650R, couple small 4 wheelers.

Okay...Thats more reasonable...

Well, I can give you some input. I own a bunch of bikes, and I still enjoy the stella ( and a few other scoots I get to ride that belong to friends)..The scoots make me ride at a more relaxed pace, and enjoy the scenery a bit more. GREAT for a few friends to ride out for ice cream or just a great fall ride.
That being said, I"m 6'3" and am a bit cramped on most scoots. A friends buddy 125 doesn't have enough room for my size 13 feet, but the stella is a bit "roomier" and stays comfortable for a bit longer. I can still ride and enjoy the 125 buddy, but after a while I"m looking for a place to put my feet.

I wonder if their any rallies nearby where you can get a test ride? Thats the best way these days to try out new Bikes.

I got my blackjack from scenic city scooters in Chattanooga they got used scooters and some buddys on the floor one being a green 170. Not sure abt giving test rides. I bought my 1st scooters used from friends so i didnt need one.

The scoots make me ride at a more relaxed pace, and enjoy the scenery a bit more. GREAT for a few friends to ride out for ice cream or just a great fall ride.

Exactly! It's not about top speed.

There's so much that I could say but it all boils down to this.

If I couldn't ride a 2stroke shifty then I wouldn't ride a scooter...

That's MY opinion.

Yep. But 2-strokes have all but gone. There are only a few motocrossers even, that are 2-strokes.

I miss the power-to-weight ratio but don't miss the fouled plugs. Back in the heyday of the Japanese 2-stroke era, you learned to carry at least 3 things in your tool kit: A spark plug gapper, either a file or small knife to scrape the plug, and at least one spare plug.