hope not a major problem with my 2008 stella!

noodoggy · Post by **noodoggy** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:48 pm

was riding to the store when all of a sudden a loud rattling occured. bike still ran so i slowed down and turned around to try to make it back home. didnt quite make it. i pulled over and checked the spark plug...looked a little sooty. i kicked it over and the piston moved (could feel the air pressure from the spark plug hole?) dont hear any rattling when using the starter. however when i kickstart it doesnt "lock" into a "starting" point (?) it almost moves as if i have the clutch lever in, but not quite that easily. what could be wrong? where should i start looking? i do have a spark from the spark plug. so it doesnt seem to be an electrical problem. thanks for any input yall can give me. not too happy since i only got this scoot one month ago.

jimmbomb · Post by **jimmbomb** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:41 am

So. Does the bike run at all? Won't start? The electric starter does work? Just won't start? Did you have to push it home?

noodoggy · Post by **noodoggy** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:07 am

it doesnt run. had to push it home. i cant get it to restart at all. i will try again tomorrow morning.

jimmbomb · Post by **jimmbomb** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:42 am

Sorry about this, but there is gas in it? Put the thing on reserve just to be sure.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:00 am

Does it kick over that easily with the spark plug in? If so, do a compression test, you may have seized a piston

If the compression is low, depends how mechanical you are, but pretty easy to pull the head off and have a look, but check the compression first, That will tell you if you have a problem,

was there any aluminum on the spark plug?

And was the electrode still on the plug?...Obviously grab a new plug and try it, but it doesn't sound good.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:21 am

OK lets figure this out.

Yoy have spark..so I agree "probably" not electrical.

As suggested a compression test is a good idea, but it doesn't sound like a top end problem to me.

Do you usually kick start or use the electric starter?

How many miles on it and what kind of riding do you usually do? Short trips around town with lots of stops and restarting of the motor or more longer distance commuting type?

You said that the electric starter engages...does the engine turn over?

You said that when you kick it it feels like the clutch is pulled in. How was the clutch feeling before this happened? Was it shifting OK?

When you kick it does the kick start just drop right down or can you feel some compression?

Does the kick start occasionally engage? If it does does it feel like it used to?

Keep us updated...between everyone we'll get it figured out.

noodoggy · Post by **noodoggy** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:28 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:OK lets figure this out.

Yoy have spark..so I agree "probably" not electrical.

As suggested a compression test is a good idea, but it doesn't sound like a top end problem to me.

Do you usually kick start or use the electric starter?

How many miles on it and what kind of riding do you usually do? Short trips around town with lots of stops and restarting of the motor or more longer distance commuting type?

You said that the electric starter engages...does the engine turn over?

You said that when you kick it it feels like the clutch is pulled in. How was the clutch feeling before this happened? Was it shifting OK?

When you kick it does the kick start just drop right down or can you feel some compression?

Does the kick start occasionally engage? If it does does it feel like it used to?

Keep us updated...between everyone we'll get it figured out.

This is from another forum:

as the previous poster said, more info really.

If the scoot , rattled and later died, feels funny to kickstart, absolute guess would be, the crank big end bearing. or if its reed valve, its lost the reed, which is jamming crank and causing kickstart to be funny.

no idea really.

Please post what you find the fault to be.
the kickstart thing is the puzzler.[/quote]

what you just stated is exactly what happened. it feels like the clutch is pulled in when i kick start it but the piston does move when i try to kick start it. there is no "catch" to the kick start. sorry about the laymen's terms. i'll describe. normally when i go to kickstart, i press down on the lever and it "stops" so i release and then "kick down" in order to start the scooter. after what happened yesterday, there is no "stopping" point anymore. it just goes down ALMOST like i have the clutch in, but with a little more resistance (i am assuming because it is moving the piston.) I am gonna take some things apart and keep you posted. ill take pics too. thanks for your help. aslso...how bad is this crank big end bearing you speak of? thanks.

the riding i do is usually a mix of commuter to stop and go. ride about 5 miles to work and at most about 10-15 miles light city for errands. THanks for your help...ill post some updates later.

noodoggy · Post by **noodoggy** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:59 pm

ok took off the cylinder head...this is what i found...not good. still dont know what it is. any guesses.

looks like something got in the head somehow. do not see any scratches on the cylinder wall, but the piston looks like it got a "ding" on one side where a hole is in the sides of the cylinder (i dont know what each of the holes or ports are in the cylinger are). if looking straight into the cylinder with the spark plug at the top (if the head were on), the spot where the "ding" is is at 3 oclock where there is a hole divided in half and and the ding is at the bottom half hole. there is metal "shavings" all over the piston. and there is pitting in the piston. looks to be really bad. apparantly something broke off and fell into the cylinder. any guesses? thanks for your help.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:29 am

Well that shoots down my thought that the top end was OK.

I know you don't want to hear it, but if it was mine I would be dropping the motor and splitting the cases. Something got in there from somewhere and there is probably more of it hanging around.

roasteroo · Post by **roasteroo** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:20 pm

Sounds like what happened to my 2t. Turned out I lost the piston skirt from the pieces jumping around inside. Sounded like I ran over a wrench in the street.

You have to spit the cases to know for sure. My guess is it's crank seal or bearing related. Rebuild time.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:27 pm

Could be piecesof piston ring, though the piston edges look okay, or bits of crank bearing

...Nothing got in there past the air filter its something in there coming apart...sorry

((...Yeah pull her apart...here is some good news!!!

They are easy to work on, if you are mechanicaly inclined you can do it, if not...There are plenty of good scooter shops to help you.

1.) Now you get to have fun looking at all the 177 kits and such to picj one

2) 24mm carb

3) good pipe

4) maybe even a good crank

Once put together, for suprisingly less than you expect, you will have a Stella that others lust after and it will run GREAT!

See? just look at the positive side

noodoggy · Post by **noodoggy** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:57 pm

here's what i got so far:

inside the cylinder...see some dark streaks...

some rough edges on some of the ports...hard to tell if "natural" or if caused by whatever fell in there

the scratches on the crankcase at the reed opening

The scuffing on the piston. note where the ring has been "smeared" stuck by whatever was in the cylinder.

Not the best pic, but note the chip taken out of the bottom of the piston. (the scratches at the bottom are my doing on the head bolts - doh!) One chip is right below (to the left in the pic) where the piston connects to the shaft. the other is at the top left on the right side of the rectangular opening.

The other side of the piston. a number of gouges or streaks. also again the bottom of the piston has a chip in it.

a better pics of the piston top. lots of metal on there.

just waiting on a flywheel puller. anything else i should pick up or order to help me to disassemble this engine?

thanks again for the help!

noodoggy · Post by **noodoggy** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:59 pm

viney266 wrote:Could be piecesof piston ring, though the piston edges look okay, or bits of crank bearing ...Nothing got in there past the air filter its something in there coming apart...sorry ((...Yeah pull her apart...here is some good news!!!

They are easy to work on, if you are mechanicaly inclined you can do it, if not...There are plenty of good scooter shops to help you.

1.) Now you get to have fun looking at all the 177 kits and such to picj one

2) 24mm carb

3) good pipe

4) maybe even a good crank

Once put together, for suprisingly less than you expect, you will have a Stella that others lust after and it will run GREAT!

See? just look at the positive side

I am seriously thinking about it lol altho i just plopped 2800 on this. was not expecting to have to deal with such a major problem so soon.
c'est la vie!

noodoggy · Post by **noodoggy** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:39 am

top of the piston pics

most of the "mess" is metal shavings. there is not alot of gouging of the piston.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:50 am

Okay, see the bronze colored bits on the piston crown? Probably pieces of bearing cage from the crankshaft.

Also see how the cylinder is smooth on the walls? It shouldn't be, it should be crosshatched.

1.) what kind of oil did you use?
2.) was the air filter in one piece and did you ever run without one?

Yeah, pull the crank and perform the "dink" test. Once its out; hold the rod in one hand with the crank hanging. Strike it from above with your friend hand. If the crank goes "dink" ( a metallic clank) the crank is shot

Drop by a shop and have it checked over if you are not sure. Any good 2 stroke guy knows on site and shouldn't charge you...

I'm suprised it went so quick. Now to figure out why so it doesn't happen again.

You can either go with a bigbore kit and all the goodies, or if on a budget you can rebore to the next oversize piston and put it all back together. Have someone who has done this to show you all the tricks ( chamfering the ports and such). This will take care of the cylinder.

The crank rebuild is another matter. If its bad you have to pull the cases apart. me personally. I wouldn't go that far without rebuilding it with better quality aftermarket bits

.

Did you just buy this used? and has it been apart before or are all parts stock?

noodoggy · Post by **noodoggy** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:00 pm

ok got the piston off...and the small end bearing looks perfect. Can look into the crankcase better and really dont see anything down in there that looks scratched or otherwise. Will know better once I get the flywheel puller. The connecting rod seems to move freely and doesnt seize. Also doesnt seem to have any play. Now that I have the piston off, wow! some pretty good damage to the piston. There is some pretty serious gouging of the metal on top and down the sides. When I split the cases, I'll update again.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:54 am

noodoggy wrote:ok got the piston off...and the small end bearing looks perfect. Can look into the crankcase better and really dont see anything down in there that looks scratched or otherwise. Will know better once I get the flywheel puller. The connecting rod seems to move freely and doesnt seize. Also doesnt seem to have any play. Now that I have the piston off, wow! some pretty good damage to the piston. There is some pretty serious gouging of the metal on top and down the sides. When I split the cases, I'll update again.

Please keep us updated.

Also check out the Orlando Scooter Society

http://www.orlandoscootersociety.com/

Good bunch of Scooter Trash there and some very knowledgable people that like to help....tell them "Dude" sent you

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:18 pm

Those bits slamming into the piston came from somewhere. I'm still betting bottom end bearing came apart. Keep us up to date. Keep your chin up!

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:18 pm

Those bits slamming into the piston came from somewhere. I'm still betting bottom end bearing came apart. Keep us up to date. Keep your chin up!

A known weakness on the 2T engines. The bearings went on my 05 within a year and the dealer made it right by swapping out my engine for a new one. I still have the old piston and it looks very similar to the pictures posted. I wish I could remember the issue but I don't ......I'm thinking it might have been something about the number of bearings. I don't wrench on engines so perhaps somebody else has better info.

noodoggy · Post by **noodoggy** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:17 pm

ok finally split the cases. and everything lookks good in there. nothing broken, however, there are metal flakes where the cylinder attaches to the cases, so i am going to replace the crank, add a cylinder kit, and upgrade the exhaust.