something 'snapped' in my clutch

jimmbomb · Post by **jimmbomb** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:23 am

what sounded like a 'snap'.. when I pulled in the clutch lever...
At first I thought the cable broke at the pinch bolt. Then I looked under there & it's still hooked up just right..
Only the lever just doesn't have the normal resistance anymore.. Very little to be exact.
The lever still pulls and comes back.. But you can do it with even one finger,,
even standing next to it only touching it with one finger,,
It pulls and springs back..
The clutch acts like the cable is broken..
it doesn't engage.. it's like you dont pull the clutch in..
cant get it into gear...
the arm underneath still moves back and forth.. I can push it with a finger towards the front..
But the clutch isn't engaging...
Any help would be nice...
or if any-1 has a exploded view of the innards... Id have to pull the cover and look in..
only I haven't done that before...
it's a 2010 4t..
And oh yeah.. genuine voided my warranty last year when they read that I put on a new pipe.
My dealer called me & said the Genuine read the post and called them to call me & say that my warranty is void from now on...
So.. Im gonna have to do this job myself..
Please chime in if you can be of some help..
all replies are welcomed and encouraged..
thanks...
jh

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:44 am

I have no idea what clutch is in the 4T...but you're going to have to pull it.

Could be a lot of things...pressure plate, broken springs, warped basket

How many miles?
How do you ride it? WOT? High revs?

jimmbomb · Post by **jimmbomb** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:51 pm

My riding style is very mild...
Not WOT.. except for.a.few.times but essentially low and slow...
When it broke.. I was making a left at a signal.. rolling. Second gear into third ...

lempira · Post by **lempira** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:02 am

And oh yeah.. genuine voided my warranty last year when they read that I put on a new pipe.
My dealer called me & said the Genuine read the post and called them to call me & say that my warranty is void from now on...

This is some serious bulls4!+! Genuine.

How do they know it's you?

April fools?

lempira · Post by **lempira** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:47 pm

Just in case this isn't an April Fools joke.
Your clutch went out, not your engine. They can fix the clutch.

http://www.celicahobby.com/forums/ubbth ... parts.html

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:53 pm

lempira wrote:Just in case this isn't an April Fools joke.
Your clutch went out, not your engine. They can fix the clutch.

http://www.celicahobby.com/forums/ubbth ... parts.html

"Federal law prohibits a dealer from voiding your warranty just because you are using aftermarket speed equipment, with only two exceptions: the warranty can be voided if the aftermarket part causes damage, or adversely affects the emissions or the emissions system."

In general, a mod doesn't void the warranty for the whole scooter, only affected systems and only when the mod can be shown to have caused a failure. That much I do know is true.

BUT "adversely affects the emissions or the emissions system" = pipe

I'm not arguing this, because I'm not a legal expert and I'm not even sure that what's in the linked post is accurate. But a performance pipe on a Stella 4T does affect emissions.

lempira · Post by **lempira** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:01 am

I still think he could argue his case.
IF he had engine trouble I could see it being an issue.

Secondly, if it's true that Genuine is scanning message boards looking for people they can void warranties on...that's truly some serious bs. If this is true I will never buy another Genuine product ever again.

Not that I'm super happy with the one I've purchased anyway.

lempira · Post by **lempira** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:18 am

again, this is just stuff I'm reading on the internets where everything is to be believed or something.

http://www.ducati.org/forums/1098-1198/ ... 1098s.html

his muffler has no affect on the clutch, or the speedo, or the crappy lights, etc.

jimmbomb · Post by **jimmbomb** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:19 am

My dealer called me and told me that Genuine does indeed read these boards and saw my posts and pictures where I did the walk thru on the Popini pipe..
They saw my St Louis sig.... called the only dealer in St Louis and asked if they knew this guy with the cream 4t. They of course said yes. They told him to call me and tell me that I no longer have a warranty .....
Another true story...
I have my rickshaw in the classified here...
The CEO of Genuine PM'd me... said that he doesn't post on the boards. BUT DOES read them quite a bit....
Then he offered me a deal.... I offered a deal... and he declined..

So yes.. the man does read this board forum..
And in my case, he took action.
Post all your mods annomously now... if you are still under warranty.
Good luck

lempira · Post by **lempira** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:37 am

My dealer called me and told me that Genuine does indeed read these boards and saw my posts and pictures where I did the walk thru on the Popini pipe..
They saw my St Louis sig.... called the only dealer in St Louis and asked if they knew this guy with the cream 4t. They of course said yes. They told him to call me and tell me that I no longer have a warranty .....

wow...just wow! I take it you're not feeling the genuine love Jim?

they should change their slogan from "the smallest scooter company" to "the shittiest scooter company".*

hey genuine! I'm thinking about hooking up some nos to my 4t! will this void the warranty on my crappy headlight that lets water in every time I wash it?

*I reserve the right to retract this post if genuine honors the warranty by fixing your clutch which had nothing to do with the polini pipe.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:49 am

The first thing to do is try to find out what's wrong with it. If it's a part failure or error in manufacturing/workmanship, it's covered. Something like a snapped cable may not be covered under anyone's warranty.

jimmbomb · Post by **jimmbomb** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:28 pm

The cable is intact. The lever moves the arm just fine.
I'm trailering it to the shop in a few hours.
Ill keep you folks up-dated as times goes by.
And thank you for the links to the letter of the law..
If they decline to pay for the repairs. Then I will pay, as I want my scoot up and running.
Then we'll just have to go Judge Judy route to get my dough back.
Thanks all.

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:42 pm

I doubt if your warranty has been voided. I would guess that your mechanic is not 'skillfully' sharing what was said in conversation. Go on in and get it fixed.
If they honestly refuse to cover your clutch over the addition of a pipe, then tell us. I'd like to know that if it were true, for now it's just he said/ she said..

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:54 pm

jimmbomb wrote:So yes.. the man does read this board forum..
And in my case, he took action.
Post all your mods annomously now... if you are still under warranty.
Good luck

Yes, he does. I don't know that he's responsible for the chain of phone calls, though. I think a lot of people from the company read the forum.

PLEASE don't post anonymously! If we find out people have multiple accounts, it can be troublesome.

Anyone doing performance mods, though, should be aware that they're (at the very least) affecting part of what's covered under warranty.

I seriously doubt they could void your whole warranty, or even if that's what was originally the intended message. Genuine sent out Prima performance pipes with every Blackjack so dealers could mount them with new scooters—all of which were still warrantied. Many non-Blackjack Buddys with Prima pipes have been covered if something else failed.

lempira · Post by **lempira** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:46 pm

Anyone doing performance mods, though, should be aware that they're (at the very least) affecting part of what's covered under warranty.

I totally agree with this, as I think most people would.

If the story as it was told is true, it's troubling. Someone would have actually had to go out of their way to track him down by calling a dealership and asking questions.

I would really like to hear someone from Genuine comment on this.

Are Genuine Scooter Co. drones next?

I'm lining my helmet with tinfoil.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:28 pm

lempira wrote:I would really like to hear someone from Genuine comment on this.

No one from Genuine posts on the forum—it's their own policy and a good one! (Only exception is Philip McCaleb's annual New Year's post.) They read it to know what's going on in the community and get our honest, unabated feedback. They also discourage dealers and others from trying to use the forum to self-promote or market heavily.

This is the only instance I've heard of when they may have taken some sort of action like this based on what's been posted here. I do know on other occasions, they've contacted dealers or members to help resolve some issues.

In general, all those service issues need to go through local dealers, not Modern Buddy. The dealers are the ones responsible for filing and justifying warranty claims.

The forum isn't a good place to resolve warranty or other service disputes with either Genuine or dealers. It gets into a he said/she said and we never know if we got the whole story. (I'm not doubting jimmbomb but have found that it's best that I stay neutral on such things unless I have better information or a better view of what actually happened. Members sometimes get outraged about things without having all of the facts. I just offer whatever I can to help owners get the situation resolved, regardless of what happened.)

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:42 am

FWIW, In the 4+ years I've been on MB have yet to read about a Genuine maintenance/warrantee situation that has not ultimately been resolved positively with all parties happy.

lempira · Post by **lempira** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:58 am

I'm cautiously optimistic.

desmolicious · Post by **desmolicious** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:29 pm

ericalm wrote:In general, a mod doesn't void the warranty for the whole scooter, only affected systems and only when the mod can be shown to have caused a failure. That much I do know is true.

BUT "adversely affects the emissions or the emissions system" = pipe

I'm not arguing this, because I'm not a legal expert and I'm not even sure that what's in the linked post is accurate. But a performance pipe on a Stella 4T does affect emissions.

Clutch/driveline has nothing to do with emissions.
If the pipe burnt a valve or holed a piston, then that would be a legit warranty void.

The Magnusson-Moss act protects consumers against mfgs cancelling warranties:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act

Genuine cannot cancel a warranty if that part has nothing to do with the failure.

This is seriously lame. Maybe the number of Stella 4T warranty claims has been beating Genuine down...

lempira · Post by **lempira** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:55 pm

BUMP

What's going on with this Jim?

jimmbomb · Post by **jimmbomb** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:47 pm

Still in the shop. Been 11 days now

. I haven't heard a word......

*edit*
I called today and the lady said that the mechanic hasnt found out yet why my clutch has failed
She said that when he does... then they will contact Genuine about sending warranted replacement parts if any.
So the wait continues..

jimmbomb · Post by **jimmbomb** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:03 pm

I got a call from the shop and picked up my bike Friday
a small steel piece at the top of the clutch arm near the brass bushing broke apart in 3 peices.
it was a $10.99 part & the shop charged 1 hour labor for it.
The mechanic told me he called Genuine to get the part warrantied and sent.
He said they (Genuine) asked him if it (the bike) had a custom exhaust on it & he said yes,,
He goes on to tell me that they (Genuine) fussed and moaned.
But he (the mechanic) assured them that the exhaust in no way contributed to the part failure.
There's more to what he told me.. but I wont go into all that as I cant quote verbatim etc.etc..
So.. They,Moto Italia in Edwardsville Illinois, didn't charge me anything for the repair.
Thanks to Verne and Daniel for having a great relationship with Genuine Scooter Company!
and Thanks to genuine for covering my failed part under warrenty.
All is good and my scooter looks great back in my driveway!

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:27 pm

So the part broke, and Genuine honored the warrantee. That's great! I wouldn't put too much stock in what gossip the dealer is playing with. Could be true, and could be untrue, but the bottom line is that your mechanic makes it sound like Genuine doesn't want to honor their warrantees- even while it appears that he's wrong about that, yeah? My $0.02..

jimmbomb · Post by **jimmbomb** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:47 pm

Tom wrote:So the part broke, and Genuine honored the warrantee. That's great! I wouldn't put too much stock in what gossip the dealer is playing with. Could be true, and could be untrue, but the bottom line is that your mechanic makes it sound like Genuine doesn't want to honor their warrantees- even while it appears that he's wrong about that, yeah? My $0.02..

Tom...my mistake... 2 different dealers....
I bought the bike from Maplewood Scooters in St Louis.
Maplewood is the one who informed me that my warranty was voided by Genuine.
Maplewood Scooters is currently without a genuine certified mechanic.. and what I am told, they cannot do any Genuine warranty work..
so....
I went across town to Moto Italia in Illinois for this work..
2 different dealer shops...

Plus like I said... he told me alot more about his conversations with Genuine that I didnt write here in my prior post.
I cant remember it all & dont want to guess.
Sorry for the confusion....

lempira · Post by **lempira** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:33 pm

glad to see you got it fixed.

being that two different dealers are telling you of push back from genuine regarding your warranty is troubling...it does nothing to endear me to them.

did it get fixed? yes
did they bitch and moan about honoring your warranty? sounds like it.
are they looking for any way possible to get out of warranties? sounds like it.

not a really a good marketing plan genuine imho.

I'm really trying hard to like you, really I am.

desmolicious · Post by **desmolicious** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:13 pm

Good result.
To be fair, the dealership that does not have the Genuine scooter certified mechanic seems to be at fault here, not Genuine.
Genuine (nor anyone else) would not pay for warranty repairs from a non official shop. Which the shop knows...