10x longer commute, what to check before I start?

yamajin · Post by **yamajin** » Fri May 11, 2012 3:07 am

Hello, just like the title says, I am going from a daily 6 mile commute to a 60 mile commute. Not only is it increasing in distance, it is also increasing in speed. Most of the time I will be going an average of 50mph. What should I check before I start doing this everyday? I have already checked my tire pressure and the lugs on both wheels and the front disc brake rotor. I do have an oil leak that I haven't investigated yet but I'm pretty sure its leaking from the sight glass. I guess what I'm getting at is what checklist would you go over if it was you making this commute everyday? Any suggestions, warnings, advice is certainly welcome!

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Fri May 11, 2012 4:12 am

First...fix the oil leak
What are you riding? Talking sight glass I assume Stella 2T
How many miles on it?
What has been done?

The first thing I would do is go tubeless rims and tires

yamajin · Post by **yamajin** » Fri May 11, 2012 10:59 am

I guess I was pretty tired when I wrote that. It's a 2004 Stella 2t with 4000 miles on it. Everything was fresh on it a year ago (new brake pads, fluids, cables, tires). I'm not sure if it is tubeless, it's got continental zippy's right now, I'm still pretty new to the Stella, just one year of riding and next to no maintainance, so I appreciate your help.

Maximus53 · Post by **Maximus53** » Fri May 11, 2012 1:08 pm

BuddyRaton wrote: The first thing I would do is go tubeless rims and tires

I am going to play the part of the 2 year old.... Why?

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Fri May 11, 2012 1:33 pm

Safety. Survival.

If you run over a nail and blow out a tubed tire at 55mph, you're in deep yogurt. Puncture a tubeless tire, and the odds are better that you'll be able to come to a controlled stop.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Fri May 11, 2012 8:23 pm

I would consider a pipe like an SIP road or a sito+ and a rejet. You will get another 5-10 MPH for hills and it will ride much easier. Also look at an improved seat foam or seat. My stock Stella seat was weak for long rides.
Other than that? Stay up on maintenance, keep an eye on the tires, and ride it

... When you need new tires go with an upgrade there.

Bcon · Post by **Bcon** » Fri May 11, 2012 11:45 pm

viney266 wrote:I would consider a pipe like an SIP road or a sito+ and a rejet. You will get another 5-10 MPH for hills and it will ride much easier.

Definitely recommend this if you haven't done it. If you need to be around 50mph often you'll want a little reserve power. An air filter deblue or replacement with a P200 filter, exhaust and re-jetting are relatively cheap and will give you that little extra edge when needed.

roasteroo · Post by **roasteroo** » Sat May 12, 2012 1:01 am

My commute is 24 miles one way. 3/4ths of it two lane county roads. 45-50 posted speed. Average car speed travel being 50-55. I enjoyed it, but other drivers didn't for the most part. I like following the NJ Transit bus; downside, diesel fumes, upside, lost speed on hills comparable to the stella.

Cage driver expectations on a commute like this are not compatible with the capabilities of stock LML crank. I think that should be stated.

Baring the point aside, a scoot with a good crank and bearings set up stock with sito plus, p200 filter and Bald Johns stack should be up to it. Premix.

Buy good tires. Im looking at the Metzler after my maxxis are toast.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sat May 12, 2012 3:01 am

You may want to do some upgrades after seeing how it handles the longer route. But I would get it in good shape and make a few runs before doing any mods.

Good start on checking the wheel and disc nuts. I would...at a minimum, retorque the head bolts. On a 6 mile commute you barely get it all the way warmed up. On this longer commute you will be getting up to temp. I would also install a CHT if you're riding it hard every day.

I would also retorque the case bolts, and check the selector box bolts.

Also I would rebuild the carb. Remember that the main jet doesn't really kick in until about 3/4 throttle. If you're going to have long runs you want that thing to be squeaky clean!

jmer1234 · Post by **jmer1234** » Sat May 12, 2012 1:55 pm

PeteH wrote:Safety. Survival.

If you run over a nail and blow out a tubed tire at 55mph, you're in deep yogurt. Puncture a tubeless tire, and the odds are better that you'll be able to come to a controlled stop.

Ok, I am going to go back to the two year old's question, why, again? I am an avid cyclist, and there has been a movement towards tubeless tires over the last few years, but it has nothing to do with control during a flat, which happens all the time on a bicycle. A flat tire is a flat tire. What difference does it make if there is a tube inside the flat tire?

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sat May 12, 2012 3:45 pm

jmer1234 wrote:
PeteH wrote:Safety. Survival.

If you run over a nail and blow out a tubed tire at 55mph, you're in deep yogurt. Puncture a tubeless tire, and the odds are better that you'll be able to come to a controlled stop.
Ok, I am going to go back to the two year old's question, why, again? I am an avid cyclist, and there has been a movement towards tubeless tires over the last few years, but it has nothing to do with control during a flat, which happens all the time on a bicycle. A flat tire is a flat tire. What difference does it make if there is a tube inside the flat tire?

Scooters aren't bicycles and it is VERY dangerous to try to compare them to each other. It's kind of like saying...well those little rubber grabby things are good enough for brakes for a bicycle...why not a scooter?
Bicycle is what 20 -30 pounds (I know there are lighter and heavier)
Scooter 200+
Cruising speed of bicycle 15-20 mph?
Scooter 50-65 mph
etc etc

Going tubeless is probably the biggest safety upgrade you can make. It is very rare to have a blowout on a tubeless tire. You get a puncture and it leaks slowly.

With a tubed tire it's like popping a balloon. I've had a low speed blow out...that was bad enough. I've seen a high speed blowout and was amazed that he stayed upright.

Most people today don't really know what a blow out is.

You can hear it...it sounds like popping a balloon..but much louder (higher pressure) then your tire is instantly completely flat...and it is instant and completely flat. If it's the rear you have a chance. If it's the front at speed...you're toast.

On day 2 of the CBR I picked up a chunk of metal in my rear tire. I didn't know it until late in the evening when I gassed up for the next morning. Returning to the motel someone pointed out that my rear looked low...it was.

I had been running 50-65 mph all day. I have no idea where I picked up the metal. If I had been running tubed there was a good chance I would have gone down at high speed.

A tubeless thread here viewtopic.php?t=21570&highlight=tubeless

jmer1234 · Post by **jmer1234** » Sat May 12, 2012 4:07 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:Scooters aren't bicycles and it is VERY dangerous to try to compare them to each other. It's kind of like saying...well those little rubber grabby things are good enough for brakes for a bicycle...why not a scooter?
Bicycle is what 20 -30 pounds (I know there are lighter and heavier)
Scooter 200+
Cruising speed of bicycle 15-20 mph?
Scooter 50-65 mph
etc etc

I understand that a bicycle is not a 200# scooter, but you can not assume a low speed. Experienced cyclists easily approach 60 mph in descents. I was not asking about brakes, just a simple explanation of why tubeless is inherently safer.

Thank you for the very good explanation after you got off your high horse, I mean scooter.

and my bicycle weighs 14.6 pounds, thank you.

jmer1234 · Post by **jmer1234** » Sat May 12, 2012 4:23 pm

The question becomes how do you convert the tires to tubeless? do you have to purchase new rims as well?

Edit - HA! Never mind. Answered my own question by following BuddyRaton's link. I guess the pissing match was blinding me.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sat May 12, 2012 5:24 pm

If you understand it then please don't compare them. I'm not on a high horse...just trying to prevent others from making the same potentially fatal comparison. Ive seen too many people that think a scooter is just a heavier bicycle. Even on TNG scooters, the brakes on scooters and bicycles are opposite each other. New people don't need to be misled or confused by the comparison.

Yes they can approach 60 mph on descents, so can a rock.......we are talking sustained high speeds on a scooter....not a bicycle. Your bicycle weighs less that 15 lbs...good for you.

And people wonder why it gets old to answer the same questions over and over and over

Yes...buy tubeless rims and tires

A tubed tire uses a split rim...there will be bolts on both sides of the rim. One set to hold the rim together, the other set to hold the rim on the hub. A tubeless rim will be one piece like a modern car rim. No bolts on the back (hub) side.

If you don't know what you have...and any scooter owner should know what they are riding on...look at the rim...not the tire. You can use a tubeless tire on a split rim with a tube. Do not use a tube on a tubeless rim

jmer1234 · Post by **jmer1234** » Sat May 12, 2012 5:44 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:If you understand it then please don't compare them. I'm not on a high horse...just trying to prevent others from making the same potentially fatal comparison. Ive seen too many people that think a scooter is just a heavier bicycle. Even on TNG scooters, the brakes on scooters and bicycles are opposite each other. New people don't need to be misled or confused by the comparison.

Yes they can approach 60 mph on descents, so can a rock.......we are talking sustained high speeds on a scooter....not a bicycle. Your bicycle weighs less that 15 lbs...good for you.

And people wonder why it gets old to answer the same questions over and over and over

do you feel better now?

We all have to base our opinions, answers and questions on our personal frame of reference and experience. Sorry if the Noobz are bugging you. Maybe we need to take our questions over to the very friendly folks at StellaSpeed.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sat May 12, 2012 6:13 pm

I don't mind helping new people out at all. Bad comparisons are just that...bad comparisons. The lack of experience is generally the biggest problem for new riders. Someone starts comparing a bicycle and a scooter...they may be prone to thinking ...yeah...a scooter is just like a bicycle.

I apologize if you think this is some kind of "pissing" contest. I'm too old...my bladder isn't what it used to be...so I don't participate in those any more. I'm just trying to pass on good factual information

Stellaspeed is an excellent forum for Stella and Vintage Vespa owners. I would encourage all Stella owners to visit.

As far as friendliness...I don't think MB can be beat!

Maximus53 · Post by **Maximus53** » Sun May 13, 2012 5:47 am

BuddyRaton wrote: As far as friendliness...I don't think MB can be beat!

I completely agree!!

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sun May 13, 2012 6:20 am

Well said BuddyRaton.

jmer1234 · Post by **jmer1234** » Sun May 13, 2012 12:24 pm

I absolutely agree that this is the friendliest group to discuss topics with. My statement was made facetiously because of the ill tempers I have observed on the other forums. I am sorry for hijacking this thread.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Sun May 13, 2012 1:42 pm

As BR mentioned, tubed tires are pretty much an all-or-nothing proposition. If the tube gets punctured, it will catastrophically lose all pressure immediately, leading to mass instability. At highway speeds, this can be deadly. By contrast, since there's substantially more rubber surrounding the pressurized chamber of a tubeless tire, a puncture will leak air much more slowly around the foreign object, allowing you hopefully to come to a controlled stop.

It's hard to compare a scooter wheel to that of a road bicycle, as most of the bicycle's radius is wheel, with only an inch or so more radius made up of rubber. Even flat, you might have some good semblance of control. About a third of a scooter wheel's radius is tire, though, so if it blows, the whole geometry of the wheel changes quite suddenly.

So tubeless tires and rims are probably a smart investment if you'll be doing significant high-speed time.

yamajin · Post by **yamajin** » Sun May 13, 2012 2:27 pm

Thanks for the enlightening conversation. I am running zippy 3s that are tubeless, so I think they are ok for now. I will eventually upgrade them as I bring in more money. Of the mentioned upgrades (pipe, carb, tires, crank, etc) which are easy to do on my own? I live an hour away from any shop that will work on my bike so I'd like to do it myself if possible.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sun May 13, 2012 6:19 pm

yamajin wrote:Thanks for the enlightening conversation. I am running zippy 3s that are tubeless, so I think they are ok for now. I will eventually upgrade them as I bring in more money. Of the mentioned upgrades (pipe, carb, tires, crank, etc) which are easy to do on my own? I live an hour away from any shop that will work on my bike so I'd like to do it myself if possible.

Rims and tires are the easiest. Check your rims. I run zippy 3s on my SS180 with a split rim and tube. They are the closest match to a vintage tread with some actual performance.

Just because a tire says tubeless doesn't mean it isn't being run without a tube. I thought 04 Stellas came with tubed tires but others here would know that better than I would.

Pipe would be next...with that you will at a minimum need to upjet your carb. Since you're going to rebuild it anyway i's a good way to get yo know your way around it.

Order a rebuild kit and then read up. The first time you rebuild it will probably take a couple of hours. Take your time. After you get to know it you can do the entire thing including removal and installation in about a half hour.

Crank is major surgery. You need to split the cases. If I was going that route I would probably up the top end at the same time. And don't forget that CHT!

jmer1234 · Post by **jmer1234** » Mon May 14, 2012 4:16 am

PeteH wrote:It's hard to compare a scooter wheel to that of a road bicycle, as most of the bicycle's radius is wheel, with only an inch or so more radius made up of rubber. Even flat, you might have some good semblance of control. About a third of a scooter wheel's radius is tire, though, so if it blows, the whole geometry of the wheel changes quite suddenly.

Thank you. This is pretty close to the Explanation that BR gave, which made perfect sense. I was simply using my experience of a bicycle as a frame of reference because on a bicycle, tubed or tubeless, a flat goes pretty much immediately. And at 140 psi, will sound like a rifle shot. You have little control at that point. Some how my curiosity about why a tubeless scooter wheel was different was construed as a direct comparison of the operation of a scooter to a bicycle.

I have a contract on a Stella 4t that is waiting on the bank to forward the check on. Over the last 48 hours, I have already been calculating my first upgrade, a set of tubeless wheels and tires; based on the sound advice here. My only question is around why SIP lists the tubeless rims as "Race Only"? I am going to resist the temptation to refer to why bicycle components are categorized as "Race Only".

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Mon May 14, 2012 8:35 am

SIP is located in Germany. In accordance with German laws ANY replacement parts...including tires...must be OEM.

Basically if you buy any vehicle in Germany with crap stock tires you will be stuck with crap stock tires as replacements. It is SIPs way of legally selling them in Germany by saying that they are only for racing (track) and not for road use as non OEM.

jmer1234 · Post by **jmer1234** » Tue May 15, 2012 12:29 am

If I got the packaged, ready to mount wheel and tire (tyre) combo, is their (SIP) house tire any good? Or, will I be better off buying rims and tires separately?

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:54 am

I ran the SIP tubeless rims and high speed tires on the CBR. They rocked! Plus you don't have to deal with the getting them mounted etc