Modern Buddy

I'm new to Modern Buddy so I'd like to start by saying hello to everyone! I've wanted a Stella for years but I've just now reached the point where I can get rid of the second car and get a scooter. (That and my awesome wife agreed to allow me to purchase one!) What I'd like to know before I make the jump is this: It seems like Stellas can be a bit quirky at first, requiring a fair amount of adjustments and trips to the dealer to work out the kinks. Is that accurate? In your experiences are they a lot of trouble or pretty reasonable? Will I be spending a lot of time on the side of the road? Everything about the Stella appeals to me (the shifting, the solid body, the classic style, etc.) but my concern is that it will be spending a lot of time in the shop and if I make it my daily driver 3 seasons out of the year I need it to be able to count on it. What are your thoughts on the initial break-in period with the 4-stroke Stella?

Thanks!

According to my dealer the 4T bikes are quite reliable, The only repairs they have had to do so far for the ones they have sold are fuel level senders and a speedometer cable.

No engine problems reported.

I've had a couple of issues with the Stella in the first 500 miles but none that I'd call a deal breaker. The issue of the neutral indicator light seems to be almost universal (and when you've found out how to deal with it you'll understand why). I've had some directional signal issues which were very easily overcome (loose bulb at the front on the left side.) You also, where the directional signals are concerned have to be aware that properly connecting the side cowls is important. The connection of the cowl completes the connection to the rear directional signal. Exactly how this is possible is a mystery to me as there's no wire attached to anything and I'd think that any electrical connection would require both a hot wire and a neutral. In any case, this is how it is in Stella land.
I've had no other issues. The scoot gets better the longer I ride it.
I love it.
I'm sure you'll love yours too.

Your frame is your neutral, And if you look closely the plastic pin that fits into the body at the front of the cowl has a plug inside that is the hot.

JohnKiniston wrote:Your frame is your neutral, And if you look closely the plastic pin that fits into the body at the front of the cowl has a plug inside that is the hot.

I haven't had any issues that left me without a scoot. Just minor things to collect a few and take to the dealer for fixing once they have the parts and i have the time.

That's great guys, thanks so much for the responses! It seems like a very solid bike but some posts that I had read made me a little nervous so I wanted to get more info from you all. I'm really looking forward to testing one out although I may have to wait until the spring to buy one depending on how long it takes me to sell my second car.

Thanks again!

My Stella has been to the dealer on numerous occassions, mostly for electrical gremlins. It has never left me stranded on the side of the road though. And the engine and shifting is really smoothing out as I put more and more miles on it. It runs like a top, I just wish that Genuine would do something to take care of all of these 'little issues' that seem to crop up on every Stella.

Like you, I was in love w/the looks, not at all scared of the shifting, etc. I have a bit of remorse every time I have to take it back to the shop, but then I get on it to ride it home and the remorse goes away.

Just know that you will have it back to the dealer a number of times while the 'kinks get worked out.' Mine has had issues w/the tail light, the turn signals, and the electric start and I've only had it since April (1,800 miles on the clock). You absolutely have to be prepared to be w/o it for a day or two here and there.

Thanks for the response vwgrl1999, that seems to agree with some of the things that I'm seeing elsewhere. It seems like each bike is a case by case basis but some small issues seem more common than others. I've got some time to keep thinking on it, the Buddy 170i definitely seems to be a worthwhile alternative but it's hard to look at anything else after looking at a Stella!

I've ben on 4T since march and haven't had a single problem yet. I took it in for its first service and they fiddled with some stuff, but so far it's been clean and dreamy the whole time.

I've noticed considerable kick as it's become more broken in, and if anything does go wrong, it's covered for 2 years so I'm not terribly worried. I do live 4 blocks from the dealer though, so that helps. if I had to truck it 70 miles to have it looked at I would think differently.


certainly no side of the road though.

Tack One. - That's great to hear! The warranty is a huge plus, definitely something that I will be taking advantage of I think.

Another question for anyone who may have experience with the 4-stroke Stella: If I get these repairs done are the issues gone or do they tend to pop up again and again over the life of the bike? I know it will need repairs of some sort over time but I'm curious as to whether these issues are one time things for Stellas or repeated issues.

So here's the thing about Stellas, and anybody who's considering buying one needs to understand this: it's essentially 1950s engineering for everything but the engine. The four-stroke Stella supposedly has some of the electrical issues worked out, and the engine is obviously a new design, but these are 1950s designs underneath.

What does that mean? It means a lot of little things will be going wrong all the time. Nothing major, it's not less "reliable" from a functional perspective, but cables will snap with some regularity; tires will go flat. Things will rust that wouldn't rust on a new bike. Wheel bearings will need to be replaced more often. If a clutch cable snapping in the middle of a ride is a problem for you, the Stella isn't your scooter.

My Triumph, a thoroughly modern bike, has gone 20,000 miles with literally not one issue; my two-stroke Stella, in the same time, went through four clutch cables, three speedometer cables, two front shocks, two rear hubs, two front hubs, two headlights, two sets of cabling between the turn signals and the headset (the shifter is a guillotine on those wires), two HT coil wires, and so forth. All those parts are the same on the four-stroke as on the two-stroke, so there's no reason to assume the four-stroke won't have the same issues.

If you look at the clutch cable, you can see the issue: a thin wire with a barrel at the lever end with nothing protecting it from the cutting force of friction, and a barrel nut at the other end with constant pressure against it. Especially anybody riding in city traffic might as well preemptively replace it every 4000 miles because it's not going to last longer than that. By contrast, my Triumph, which also has a cable-actuated clutch, uses a very thick wire with a ball pivot on both ends to eliminate friction points, and in 20,000 miles it hasn't even stretched.

But here's the thing: Stella won't leave you stranded as long as you have a spare cable set and enough know-how to change a cable. I can do a curb-side clutch cable change in under five minutes. The shifter cables are a bit more hassle but can still be done curb side; the rear brake is really just there to make you feel good so if you lose it, no big loss. The throttle cable is a pain in the butt but I've changed it curbside as well.

If you want to ride a Stella, you have to be able to change your own tires and cables, or else expect to be towed a lot. But those are both easy jobs.

The Stella asks more of its owner than most scooters, and if that means it's "unreliable" for you, then it's not the scoot you should choose. But if you're willing to handle the cable issues, understand that its underpinnings are solid.

Thanks talindsay, that answer makes a lot of sense. I don't mind doing some work on my scooter but I think that I'll have to decide whether or not I want or am able to maintain the bike to that level. I guess part of what makes a Stella the beauty that it is also works against it on some level. Thanks for the very detailed answer, I'm glad that I started my research early!

to put things into perspective I have ridden my Stellas for a combined distance of about 15 thousand miles over the last year and a half and I have yet to snap a cable. Things that have gone wrong are mostly electrical, had to replace the stator at one point and a couple of bulbs.

I don't know if I'd agree with "1950's design" The P-Series came out in 1977 and the PX Series in 1983 so more like late 70's early 80's with improvements.

I know people who's bikes are very reliable and who have put thousands of trouble free miles on them, Every bike is different, Maybe yours was built on a Friday after lunch talindsay

Nah, mine could maintain over 50 mph for 300 miles in a day without any trouble for over 15,000 miles, it was clearly a Wednesday engine. Maybe the cables were put in on Friday, but I've changed a lot of people's cables on the roadside on group rides. It could be that since we're all city-dwellers our cables stretch more than suburbanites or rural folks - lots of stop and go traffic, all the cables get worked continuously - but I think cable life in the 4000-6000 mile range is more the norm than the exception.

JohnKiniston wrote:I don't know if I'd agree with "1950's design" The P-Series came out in 1977 and the PX Series in 1983 so more like late 70's early 80's with improvements.

I know people who's bikes are very reliable and who have put thousands of trouble free miles on them, Every bike is different, Maybe yours was built on a Friday after lunch talindsay

It is quite 50s:
-Two Stroke engine
-Manual choke
-Cable actuated controls (Most bikes were starting to go to hydraulic)
-Air cooled
-Drum brake (again, this was the start of a move towards disc in the late 70's/early 80's)

Mechanically, there isn't really ANY "modern" improvements aside from styling and *gasp* an electric start! (Granted many bikes in the 60's already had that). I'm not hating on the P-series design at all... I love the bike!! But, it's best to be honest on where it's development was at the time to other motorbikes.

It's a simple, reliable and proven design that had already been around for nearly 40 years before the advent of the P-series. Best at times to go with what is proven

Right on neotrotsky, the P series brought very little in the way of innovation over the previous largeframe designs, and most of those "innovations" were things that had been common practice for a while on other bikes. To me the signature 1950s characteristic about Vespas is the dreadfully outdated carburettors, which fortunately were replaced with a modern Japanese model on the four-strokes.

Maybe we should start a new topic since we're pretty far off from the original question about the 4T bikes being reliable?

However,
What bike are you comparing your 50's era Vespa to, A Heinkel Tourist? Then yes I can see a 50's era scooter that's a 4 stroke. However it still had a cable operated clutch and drum brakes.

A 50's era vespa is piston ported, has a 6 volt electrical system with points, Your going to have to look at the early 70's Rally series for Electronic Ignition. I don't think you even get a 3 port engine until the late Sprint models in the early 70's.

I'm having a hard time finding out when Oil Injection was introduced, Some Rally's had it so it could have been with the Rally or with the model before.

Piaggio didn't start using your hated Delorto SI Caburetor until the 60's era Bikes.

I'm interested now, What 70's era scooters had Hydraulic actuated controls?

I've got 80's and 90's Honda and Yamaha scooters that have 2 stroke air cooled engines with cable operated drum brakes, Are those variated reed induction bikes modern or 50's era designs in your mind?

JohnKiniston wrote:Maybe we should start a new topic since we're pretty far off from the original question about the 4T bikes being reliable?

However,
What bike are you comparing your 50's era Vespa to, A Heinkel Tourist? Then yes I can see a 50's era scooter that's a 4 stroke. However it still had a cable operated clutch and drum brakes.

A 50's era vespa is piston ported, has a 6 volt electrical system with points, Your going to have to look at the early 70's Rally series for Electronic Ignition. I don't think you even get a 3 port engine until the late Sprint models in the early 70's.

I'm having a hard time finding out when Oil Injection was introduced, Some Rally's had it so it could have been with the Rally or with the model before.

Piaggio didn't start using your hated Delorto SI Caburetor until the 60's era Bikes.

I'm interested now, What 70's era scooters had Hydraulic actuated controls?

I've got 80's and 90's Honda and Yamaha scooters that have 2 stroke air cooled engines with cable operated drum brakes, Are those variated reed induction bikes modern or 50's era designs in your mind?

I was speaking of motorcycles in general, since I don't go around discounting a bike simply because of smaller engine displacement. And, in that respect hydraulic front disc brakes were being used by Honda, Kawasaki and Suzuki in the early 70's (My Honda CB200T was one of the first small bikes I can remember with a front disc that was hydraulically actuated). Bikes like the Honda Cub were ahead by light years with 4-stroke engines, semi auto transmissions and 12 volt systems before many other companies. And, electronic ignition didn't become common place with Vespa until the P-series in the late 70's. Also, the oil injection I *think* became nearly model wide with the introduction of the P-series.

And, while the Honda scooters of the Elite era (early 80's) weren't operated by hydraulic brakes, they were CVT transmissions and the 250 Elite even had liquid cooling and a digital dash. The few 2-stroke bikes that hung on in the 50cc version were simply because they were cheap to produce, but didn't represent the entire line of bikes for the big 4 from Japan. Conversely, Vespa had pulled out of the US market because it couldn't make enough profit to prove worth their while, and they hadn't progressed at the rate the Japanese had. They were just starting to experiment with automatic transmissions, but the T5 was their best competitor to the Elite in other markets. And, the heavier, more angular bike was only modern in looks, but still used the same essential (with minor differences) two stroke motor of the P200

Almost all of the Stella 4T problems reported on MB to date have been either electrical, due to dealer prep, or very minor issues. So far, all reports are that these were fixed under warranty. There have been few—if any—reports of issues with the engine.

I've had two Stella 4Ts, manufactured over a year apart, and have put around 10K combined on them so far. The only issues I've had along these lines was the fuse blowing, which I just replaced myself. (I'll upgrade to a blade fuse at some point.) My exhaust started rattling at some point—weld broke. Replaced under warranty.

I'm going to stop here. I cant compare Scooters and Motorcycles.

While they both have two wheels and an engine they have different markets, design philosophies, price points, production numbers, etc that make it not work.

Ha ha, wow! Thanks for the information everybody! I'm amazed at the wealth of knowledge here in the Stella forum! I'm still leaning heavily towards the Stella, I've loved that scoot for quite some time and it doesn't sound like there is anything bad enough to discourage me from getting one. I appreciate everyone sharing their experiences, it's made me feel a lot better! And for safety's sake, I'll try to learn to change a clutch cable!