Stella 4T MPG

[ankdworak]

I have wondered what it is about the Stella 4T engineering that makes it get such terrific fuel economy (An EPA estimated 140 MPGs). I get that in real world scenarios that it won't do that well due to rider’s weight, wind, and a myriad of other factors. But for a 150cc engine even the reported 110 MPG that I've seen some Stella owners report seems phenomenal. I have a Honda Elite 110 (108 ccs) which is fuel injected and the EPA estimate for that model is 106 MPGs. I'm lucky to achieve about 90 to 95 MPGs and I don't think that I ride it too hard (I'm 210 and the scoot has a windscreen). The only major difference I can think of is that the Stella is a manual 4 speed instead of a CVT transmission. Is it that factor alone what accounts for the mileage difference? What might the Stella do if the engine was fuel injected instead of carbed?
I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of you advanced wrenchers out there.

[ericalm]

It's all in the engineering and tuning, I guess. Even some CVT scooters with similar displacement have wildly different MPGs. A Buddy 150 will get 30MPG more than a (carbureted) Vespa LX 150. The weight difference between the two is a mere 7 pounds.

The manual transmission has something to do with it, too. If they test at 35MPH (or whatever) and run a Stella in 4th gear, it's not using as much gas as it would in 3rd or as a CVT would.

EPA estimates are always much higher than real world. I get closer to 100MPG in stop/start urban riding—still very good. It would be higher out in the open road, I guess.

Fuel injected Stellas are coming. They're already making them, though no idea when we'll get them in the US.
http://www.lmlitalia.com/moduli/scooter ... dlinea=208

[Drum Pro]

Does anyone know if the FI Stella will be manual or twist n go? I want it if it's manual...

[ericalm]

Currently a manual.

There may be an automatic Stella in the near future, too, though. LML is already planning an updated version of the Vespa PK smallframe automatic. The original was a bit of a dog, but with a modern CVT it could be a great scoot!

[vwgrl1999]

I get closer to 100MPG in stop/start urban riding—still very good. It would be higher out in the open road, I guess.

I am getting around 115mpg on my Stella right now. My daily ride consists of about 1 mile of stop/go, followed by 28 miles of open road at 3/4 to full throttle, followed by 2 miles of stop/go. Then the reverse at the end of the day. My mileage does seem to be improving as I put more miles on the scoot, so I don't think that 120mpg is out of the question for me. Really don't ever expect to see 140mpg, but I'm pretty stoked w/115mpg!

[Maximus53]

I get closer to 100MPG in stop/start urban riding—still very good. It would be higher out in the open road, I guess.

I am getting around 115mpg on my Stella right now. My daily ride consists of about 1 mile of stop/go, followed by 28 miles of open road at 3/4 to full throttle, followed by 2 miles of stop/go. Then the reverse at the end of the day. My mileage does seem to be improving as I put more miles on the scoot, so I don't think that 120mpg is out of the question for me. Really don't ever expect to see 140mpg, but I'm pretty stoked w/115mpg!

I'm not even close to 100 mpg. I have been getting about 82. Maybe this is due to the fact that I really rev up every gear before shifting?

[ankdworak]

Thanks for all the replys. Eric glad to hear that a FI Stella is already in the LML stable. I would think that eventually it will make it's way to the US.
I love the retro look of the Stella but just don't have the funds right now, for even a used 2T.
Might have to wait a while - and by then, perhaps the FI model will be here.

[Drum Pro]

I soo have the funds right now but waiting is the hardest part. I'm scared that if I break down and get that smurfy cream and blue one I have my eye on, THEN they'll ship over the FI one. What to do.....

[Rail 50]

Yes...it can be done. My last tank came out to 143 mpg. If you aren't in a hurry, you can do it too. My commute to work is about 8 miles with 22 traffic lights and 8 Stop signs. It takes about 20 minutes. I try to go on a weekend trip once a month, and that is usually about 100 miles or more along the river road at about 50 mph.

Jim

[Silver Streak]

Yes...it can be done. My last tank came out to 143 mpg. If you aren't in a hurry, you can do it too. My commute to work is about 8 miles with 22 traffic lights and 8 Stop signs. It takes about 20 minutes. I try to go on a weekend trip once a month, and that is usually about 100 miles or more along the river road at about 50 mph.

Jim

Here we go again.

Mileage calculations from one fill-up on a scooter (particularly a Stella) are totally unreliable. There is no way to re-fill accurately to the same level repeatably unless you overfill, and the tank is very small. If you overfilled the last time, and slightly underfilled this time, you will get an outrageously inflated mileage calculation.

What is your long-term average? That is the only thing that means anything.

[Rail 50]

Yes...it can be done. My last tank came out to 143 mpg. If you aren't in a hurry, you can do it too. My commute to work is about 8 miles with 22 traffic lights and 8 Stop signs. It takes about 20 minutes. I try to go on a weekend trip once a month, and that is usually about 100 miles or more along the river road at about 50 mph.

Jim

Here we go again.

Mileage calculations from one fill-up on a scooter (particularly a Stella) are totally unreliable. There is no way to re-fill accurately to the same level repeatably unless you overfill, and the tank is very small. If you overfilled the last time, and slightly underfilled this time, you will get an outrageously inflated mileage calculation.

What is your long-term average? That is the only thing that means anything.

I would agree with that, as I have see 264 mpg on my Aprilia, because of a "short tank", but that was the first time I filled it, and now I know where to put the nozzle. However I do my due diligence when I fuel up. My long term average is 112 for the Stella. It is verified by my fuelly page. Hey, Thanks for playing!

[Lokky]

Assuming identical tuning/weather/riders/etc two scooters may have very different fuel usage due to riding style.

My 2T can get as low as 40MPG, all I have to do is to start riding like I am back home in Italy.

Morec conservative riding will net about 60MPG.

[Mark Z]

The economy on Genuine Scooters is bogus! I have 2K miles on my 4T and check the mileage at every fill up. Almost to the mile, 100mpg every time, under any driving conditions.

Keep in mind, all genuine scooters speedometers read 10% high - dealers know this and anyone can check theirs and find out this is a fact. Consequently, the odometer reading is also 10% too high. Therefore, my fuel economy is actually 90 mpg. I can't figure how Genuine can legally claim 140 mpg. No one every comes close!

This speedo issue is a major problem that nobody really considers. It causes a multitude of misguided assumptions!

I luv my stella! I enjoy riding and will continue to do so. I do however feel I over paid for deliberate false claims by the manufacturer. I bought this scooter solely based on their 140 mpg propaganda.

Buyer beware

[Stitch]

Not all Stella speedometers are 10% off. Mine reads dead on accurate.
And if you want to get an honest fuel mileage measurement, run it till
You hit reserve, add one gallon, run till you hit reserve again.

[SockyTX]

I have about 600 miles on my Stella 4T. I think my normal tank and reserve pump are set higher in my tank than normal. If I fill up to the top off point when hitting the reserve amount I can only add about 0.8 gallons. So I have been filling up every 70 miles and usually end up adding just over .6 gallons consistently. So by my calculations I am getting about 115 miles per gallon. My daily commute is 5 miles each way on roads that only have a few lights and don't have much traffic. In the near future I plan on running the Stella pass the normal tank until the reserve runs out so I can get a fill for my max tank distance.

[Lokky]

The economy on Genuine Scooters is bogus! I have 2K miles on my 4T and check the mileage at every fill up. Almost to the mile, 100mpg every time, under any driving conditions.

Keep in mind, all genuine scooters speedometers read 10% high - dealers know this and anyone can check theirs and find out this is a fact. Consequently, the odometer reading is also 10% too high. Therefore, my fuel economy is actually 90 mpg. I can't figure how Genuine can legally claim 140 mpg. No one every comes close!

This speedo issue is a major problem that nobody really considers. It causes a multitude of misguided assumptions!

I luv my stella! I enjoy riding and will continue to do so. I do however feel I over paid for deliberate false claims by the manufacturer. I bought this scooter solely based on their 140 mpg propaganda.

Buyer beware

The odometer is a separate issue from the speedometer. I believe the speedo reading high, especially on the Stella, is a result of its Italian origin where all speedos are required to read 8% of more than the real speed in an effort to keep people from speeding.

The odometer on the Stella is actually pretty accurate while working. On my recent trip to Amerivespa (900 miles each way) it read within a couple miles of the googlemaps estimate.

[Tom]

I have stopped tracking mine, but I only get about 86 MPG (see below). I know I can get much better, but it isn't worth slowing down.

[ericalm]

The economy on Genuine Scooters is bogus! I have 2K miles on my 4T and check the mileage at every fill up. Almost to the mile, 100mpg every time, under any driving conditions.

Keep in mind, all genuine scooters speedometers read 10% high - dealers know this and anyone can check theirs and find out this is a fact. Consequently, the odometer reading is also 10% too high. Therefore, my fuel economy is actually 90 mpg. I can't figure how Genuine can legally claim 140 mpg. No one every comes close!

This speedo issue is a major problem that nobody really considers. It causes a multitude of misguided assumptions!

I luv my stella! I enjoy riding and will continue to do so. I do however feel I over paid for deliberate false claims by the manufacturer. I bought this scooter solely based on their 140 mpg propaganda.

Buyer beware

The 140MPG estimate comes from the EPA testing, not Genuine. This is made pretty clear where Genuine always states "EPA city estimate" after the MPG rating.

This isn't "propaganda" or an attempt to deceive any more than the reported MPG rating of any other vehicle on the market. You will almost never achieve the EPA estimate for any vehicle—car, motorcycle or scooter—in real-world riding conditions.

If you have a problem with this, you should complain to Congress, not Genuine.

[skully93]

You'll find almost all 2 wheeled vehicles have that issue.

Motorcycles are often a little optimistic in the hopes that you won't be flying down the road at 105 all the time.

I don't worry about it too much. if I was actually getting 70 instead of 80mpg, it's still a lot. Even taking a lot of extra curricular trips and driving my Kymco 90 miles a week, the most I tend to use is 2.5 gallons a week on average. in the winter even less.

If the EPA MPG irritates you, look into food and drug labels....(OK I promise I'll never mention that again).

[ericalm]

Everything you need to know about speedometer accuracy:
topic10818.html#139168

[neotrotsky]

Currently a manual.

There may be an automatic Stella in the near future, too, though. LML is already planning an updated version of the Vespa PK smallframe automatic. The original was a bit of a dog, but with a modern CVT it could be a great scoot!

A PK-framed scooter would be a blast, even in a 50! I just *wish* they wouldn't make it a CVT auto. That totally neuters the performance and ruins the feel of the LML bikes. CVT's are great for modern scooters. There needs to be at least ONE real shifter bike left.

[ericalm]

Currently a manual.

There may be an automatic Stella in the near future, too, though. LML is already planning an updated version of the Vespa PK smallframe automatic. The original was a bit of a dog, but with a modern CVT it could be a great scoot!

A PK-framed scooter would be a blast, even in a 50! I just *wish* they wouldn't make it a CVT auto. That totally neuters the performance and ruins the feel of the LML bikes. CVT's are great for modern scooters. There needs to be at least ONE real shifter bike left.

There is. It's called the Stella.

[Rusty J]

Currently a manual.

There may be an automatic Stella in the near future, too, though. LML is already planning an updated version of the Vespa PK smallframe automatic. The original was a bit of a dog, but with a modern CVT it could be a great scoot!

A PK-framed scooter would be a blast, even in a 50! I just *wish* they wouldn't make it a CVT auto. That totally neuters the performance and ruins the feel of the LML bikes. CVT's are great for modern scooters. There needs to be at least ONE real shifter bike left.

I had no idea that Vespa made an automatic before the ET series. And looking it up, shoehorning that into a smallframe took some very creative engineering! The variator belt drive was oriented almost vertically, rather than horizontally along the swingarm as the practice today.

I can definitely see LML being able to develop an updated version. Maintenance access could be a lot simpler with the hybrid unibody/tube frame arrangement used in the 4T Stella. They've got a suitable 4T engine design, and CVT components are commodity items at this point.

It'd be a good way expand the market for classic unibody scooters. If they're built, Genuine ought to import a 150cc version, and provide the 150cc and then 200cc 4T Stellas as an upgrade path for those buyers.

[ericalm]

The transmission on the PK automatica was awful from everything I've heard about it.

I think I mentioned before, it's possible the LML version has a transmission and possibly engine sourced from another manufacturer. It MIGHT be PGO… My memory sucks but there was something about this in the EICMA reporting or blogging or image posting back in November. Of course, it was also a concept at that point, so it may have been something just thrown together for display.

[Rusty J]

The transmission on the PK automatica was awful from everything I've heard about it.

I think I mentioned before, it's possible the LML version has a transmission and possibly engine sourced from another manufacturer. It MIGHT be PGO… My memory sucks but there was something about this in the EICMA reporting or blogging or image posting back in November. Of course, it was also a concept at that point, so it may have been something just thrown together for display.

There's no way to get a GY6 powertrain (the sort used in most Asian scooters) into a PK frame -- the engine would protrude into the floorboard area. They could do it using GY6 components, but the transmission housing and swingarm would have to be specially made. Ok, maybe if you could get it to run reliably when tilted up 45˚ it might work. Still, it'd need some connection to the frame swingarm mounts.

For illustration, here are a couple of photos of an Automatica powertrain, from someone's attempt to retrofit it into a non-auto smallframe.

[ericalm]

The transmission on the PK automatica was awful from everything I've heard about it.

I think I mentioned before, it's possible the LML version has a transmission and possibly engine sourced from another manufacturer. It MIGHT be PGO… My memory sucks but there was something about this in the EICMA reporting or blogging or image posting back in November. Of course, it was also a concept at that point, so it may have been something just thrown together for display.

There's no way to get a GY6 powertrain (the sort used in most Asian scooters) into a PK frame -- the engine would protrude into the floorboard area. They could do it using GY6 components, but the transmission housing and swingarm would have to be specially made. Ok, maybe if you could get it to run reliably when tilted up 45˚ it might work. Still, it'd need some connection to the frame swingarm mounts.

For illustration, here are a couple of photos of an Automatica powertrain, from someone's attempt to retrofit it into a non-auto smallframe.

This is where I'm talking about cramming one in for show; see kickstarter shaft under the cowl. But a short-case GY6 type of engine and transmission could fit. You won't get a 200cc in there, but…

[Rusty J]

This is where I'm talking about cramming one in for show; see kickstarter shaft under the cowl. But a short-case GY6 type of engine and transmission could fit. You won't get a 200cc in there, but…

That's remarkably close. In that show model, though, it looks like there isn't much (if any) room for the engine to move when the swingarm does.

Not an insurmountable problem.

[Tipper]

Sorry to jump in (Hello by the way).

I have been in contact with EP Barrus, the company who import LML's over here in the UK.

I asked them about the new PK style auto and when we can expect it and this is the reply I got.

'The auto is “expected” end of September-early October, however please keep in mind we have never received any completely new model from any supplier on time!

The big change is, it is no longer a PK size, it is now the same body shape and size as the standard Star Deluxe, and will only be available as a 125.

Members of staff have ridden preproduction prototypes in Milan, and commented on how well they performed.'

Basically what he is saying is the auto wont be a PK shape but will actually be the same shape as the lml star/stella !

Very exciting and if they get the price right I think this thing could really sell well.

[Rusty J]

The big change is, it is no longer a PK size, it is now the same body shape and size as the standard Star Deluxe, and will only be available as a 125.'

Basically what he is saying is the auto wont be a PK shape but will actually be the same shape as the lml star/stella !

They've already redone the frame aft of the step-through area for the 4T Stellas -- revising it further to accommodate a GY6 powertrain is certainly possible. Whether it can be done without spoiling the bike's looks is a separate question.

I suspect the 125cc might be the UK version, for licensing reasons. There's no reason other markets couldn't get 150cc (or even 168cc) variants.