Vespa P200E or Stella..

[mhardgrove]

Given the option which would you have. I know the P200E is 30+ years old while the Stella is newer. I just want the bigger engine and see that on CL that both bikes are in a similar price range.

Pros and cons on each...

[BuddyRaton]

Depending on the condition of each for me it would be the P. The P200 is the workhorse of the classic Vespa line. I think of them as the F-150 of scooters. Tons more torque than the Stella

What year is the P200?

[jimmbomb]

you'll have an electric start on the Stella, but not on the p..and probally not a disc front brake on the p either. maybe...
I took an 09 Stella and put a p200 motor on it. that's an option too
good luck deciding

[viney266]

Find a stella used with a dr177 kit or (any other kit) for 2500. Buy that, best of both worlds and a disc brake

[lempira]

Depending on the condition of each for me it would be the P. The P200 is the workhorse of the classic Vespa line. I think of them as the F-150 of scooters. Tons more torque than the Stella

I second that.

If the condition and price are comparable, get the P.

[jimmbomb]

Depending on the condition of each for me it would be the P. The P200 is the workhorse of the classic Vespa line. I think of them as the F-150 of scooters. Tons more torque than the Stella

I second that.

If the condition and price are comparable, get the P.

Did Vespa put disc brakes on the fronts of P200's ? And if so.... what years?
Thanks

[Lokky]

Depending on the condition of each for me it would be the P. The P200 is the workhorse of the classic Vespa line. I think of them as the F-150 of scooters. Tons more torque than the Stella

I second that.

If the condition and price are comparable, get the P.

Did Vespa put disc brakes on the fronts of P200's ? And if so.... what years?
Thanks

not that I am aware but the front disk has such an impact on braking safety that it's a common upgrade for people to swap out their fork with a PX fork which has a disk brake

[lempira]

Depending on the condition of each for me it would be the P. The P200 is the workhorse of the classic Vespa line. I think of them as the F-150 of scooters. Tons more torque than the Stella

I second that.

If the condition and price are comparable, get the P.

Did Vespa put disc brakes on the fronts of P200's ? And if so.... what years?
Thanks

No they did not.

[JohnKiniston]

Stella. Reed Induction, Disc Brake, Electric start, Can be made just as fast or faster than a P200.

[BuddyRaton]

you'll have an electric start on the Stella, but not on the p..and probally not a disc front brake on the p either. maybe...
I took an 09 Stella and put a p200 motor on it. that's an option too
good luck deciding

Dropping in a P200 motor is a good option..but lots of additional cost and work.

Electric starts are for peg legged pirates and wussies!

[larrylarry75]

Stella. Reed Induction, Disc Brake, Electric start, Can be made just as fast or faster than a P200.

Hey John,

When you mod the 2T does the reliability go south? I live in an area that's mostly long hills, some of them fairly steep and winding. Truck traffic is present, not overwhelming but they're there and sometimes it's a bit unnerving. My Stella exhibits exactly what you'd expect on the grades, 40 mph tops and even then she's straining to hold that. Given what's available in the way of hop-up kits will they turn the engine into a grenade waiting to happen? I'm thinking if she could manage an honest 60-65 mph on the flats she'd have enough poop to do the hills better.

Thanx in advance,

LL75

[JohnKiniston]

You can build a fast bike that isn't a grenade.

Start simple as with having the engine rebuilt with Japanese or German bearings and a 226 Pipe, GGR Hot Reeds and a Upjet and see if that's enough to get you where you want to be.

The pipe will move and enhance the power band of your bike and the bearings will solve the most common cause of Stella's Seizing.

If you still don't have enough power then look at adding a performance cylinder from Polini or Malossi or another manufacturer, rejet again and see how the bike feels.

Then you get into Gearing changes....

My Atomic fireball had no problem with hills with it's last build, But I didn't use quality bearings and paid the price for it.

[Drum Pro]

How much should someone pay for a 1980 P200e? Theres a really nice one but they want $3800. I think thats too much for a 80'. I'd be better off waiting and getting a Stella for a few hundred more. The only thing is, time and time again, I keep reading about the poor build quality of the Stella. I'm not saying they are no good cos they can be fixed, especially with a warranty, but as my only transport, Is it worth shelling out the money?

[JohnKiniston]

For that money I'd get a brand new Stella over a 30 year old bike.

It's nice to start from Mile 0, And you get the Warranty not someones problems and fixes.

[BuddyRaton]

For that money I'd get a brand new Stella over a 30 year old bike.

It's nice to start from Mile 0, And you get the Warranty not someones problems and fixes.

Actually I agree. $3,800 is way too high for an 80 P200 regardless of condition.

[larrylarry75]

You can build a fast bike that isn't a grenade.

Start simple as with having the engine rebuilt with Japanese or German bearings and a 226 Pipe, GGR Hot Reeds and a Upjet and see if that's enough to get you where you want to be.

The pipe will move and enhance the power band of your bike and the bearings will solve the most common cause of Stella's Seizing.

If you still don't have enough power then look at adding a performance cylinder from Polini or Malossi or another manufacturer, rejet again and see how the bike feels.

Then you get into Gearing changes....

My Atomic fireball had no problem with hills with it's last build, But I didn't use quality bearings and paid the price for it.

Thanks for getting back on this. My beastie is just turning 300 break-in miles so I'll wait awhile for her to settle in more and see how it goes in another couple of hundred miles. Lucky for me I've got other rides so I'm neither strapped nor bored, just looking for a smidgen more grunt. I rode my bud's 2004 250 Vespa over several of the same hills and it didn't even slow down, felt almost as frisky as my MP3 500. I'm not looking for that much as I like the way she feels and acts, tons of fun!

Best,

LL75

[Lokky]

Larry,
Since modding my stella this january I have put approximately 5000 miles on it. About halfway through that I also got into a major crash that destroyed the frame, took the engine out, dropped it into a new frame and drove it from virginia to wisconsin and back in as little as two days each way.
I have not had a single issue with the engine in this period. Only a crack in the pipe (which had some 11k miles on it including two years of winter riding).

I would say that's pretty dang reliable

[double-o-soul]

we're getting s little off topic here...
just an fyi though, you can get your stella to pull 60 at wide open throttle with fairly little work and money:

derestricted reedblock
ggr hot reeds
derestricted air filter
drilled air filter
bald john jetting
removed under seat air filter
sito+ exhaust

none of these mods are very difficult or expensive... if you have a little more cash you can get a really good exhaust like a hotwing.

[larrylarry75]

we're getting s little off topic here...

Yes we are and it's my fault, please accept my apologies for hijacking the thread and my thanks for the advice offered by several.

LL75

[DirtyRAT]

My Atomic fireball had no problem with hills with it's last build, But I didn't use quality bearings and paid the price for it.

Hi John, I too have an Atomic Fireball, but no mods...yet. I'd be curious what 'price' you paid for not using quality bearings.

So as not to hijack this thread with too much shop talk, please Private Message me if that seems best, or post here.

Thanks

[BuddyRaton]

Or start a bearing thread so the rest of us can learn stuff too!

[double-o-soul]

yes plz start a bearing thread, i'd love to learn more... maybe a mod can split this thread?

[az_slynch]

Hi John, I too have an Atomic Fireball, but no mods...yet. I'd be curious what 'price' you paid for not using quality bearings.

I don't know if John ever got back to you on this, but the "price" has been observed on two different '05 Stellas.

On his first bike, the flywheel-side crankshaft bearing had a catastrophic failure on the highway, the cage for the rollers failed and the roller bearings were ingested into the crankcase, ground up by the crankshaft and spit up the transfer ports where they ruined the head and piston.

He has had two flywheel-side bearing failures on his Fireball. One was caught before it ruined the engine. The second one caused the bearing to sieze up, which twisted the bearing race on the crankshaft and strained the crank enough to wrench the clutch side bearing against the case. The crank was salvagable (amazingly), but the case has required some machine work to be able to re-use it (sleeving the clutch-side bearing housing).

In all cases, the engines were fitted with LML-supplied bearings of Indian manufacture. Since these events, I have switched to building engines with Japanese or European bearings. For the flywheel side of the crankshaft, I recommend using Torrington or Nadella bearings. Torrington is the company that designed the bearing-type in the first place and Nadella is a solid Italian manufacturer. I have been using Italian SKF bearings on the clutch side of the crankshaft.

As a related aside, if you are building an engine with a "performance" crankshaft, make sure that the crank has a good static balance. The bike won't vibrate as much at higher RPMs and it'll be easier on the bearings.

[BuddyRaton]

I've gotten high quality bearings from Scooter Mercado...can't remember the brand right now