OK, I'm a bit stumped and I *think* I know what I got... but being around P-series bikes so much (since that's pretty much what you find in the US) I'm not as versed in the less popular models.
Long story short: Friend of mine from years back messaged me on FB saying she's clearing out some property and has an old Vespa on her hands. I assumed it was some cheap Chinese POS since everyone in Arizona thinks that "Scooter" and "Vespa" mean the same thing. Well, when she showed me the picture, I saw she actually had a Vespa! The bike doesn't have any info attached and she knows practically nothing. She has the side door and seat frame, but that's it. No title, no keys. BUT, the price could very well be worth it and she'd bring it from her place about 120 miles out to the Valley included.
My question is this: A ET3 or some other smallframe. From what I see I think it's a Primavera but I'm not versed in all of the old steel. I know P-series like the back of my hand because that's really all I have ridden other than Japanese vintage and modern Vespa/Kymco. What are my engine options/upfit for the Primavera and what parts availability will I be looking at? What are the problem children for parts?
I'm not going to bother to ask if it's "worth it" because I know I will never make a profit on it. That's not the point of a project now is it?
It's either a '74-on Primavera or a 100 Sport. The aluminum piece on the tail behind the gas tank should clarify. Also, check the shift tube. If it's a 3-speed, it's a 100 Sport (V9B). If it's a 4-speed, it's a Primmy (VMA2).
Either bike is decent fun. I rebuilt a Primmy for a local kid who trashed the motor. It ran pretty well and rode nicely. They are a bit slow, though. Building a blue badge VMA1 for a local gal, but doing it up with a Mazzuchelli anticipating crank, a Polini 130 cylinder and a Polini banana pipe. We expect improved performance over a 6.5hp stock Primavera.
Even if it's a 100 Sport, it's a good bike. They came with 12V Electrics from the get-go and they're a 3-port motor. Should be good for 55mph in a healthy stock tune.
EDIT: the pic is grainy, but I think it might say 90 on the rear badge. There were some Vespa 90s sold in the 70s, but they weren't as common as other small frame models. If it's a 90, it could be a 3 or 4-speed, depending on the year. Chassis code is V9A and it would be on the back lip of where the engine door goes.
At what point does a hobby become an addiction? I'm uncertain, but after the twelfth scooter, it sorta feels like the latter...
Thanks. Already bounced her a message to hold it for next month and told the kid I was thinking of buying the Stella from to kick rocks (Turns out he also stiffed another club on some door fees from a show he did, so he's becoming a liability to have around. Musicians who don't pay their debts to the house are no good). This buyer is up front that her bike doesn't have a title, but it's desirable.
My only worry in the entire rebuild is the transmission. Dirty little secret time: I've never touched a transmission repair in my life I've replaced top ends (my P200e gave me practice at that) and done TONS of cables and wiring jobs, but the tranny is the one black hole of knowledge for me. I know this will need a complete rebuild and I'm cool with all of that... except the fun with the gears.
Other than that I'm actually looking forward to the body and paint work! She said she'd get me the VIN tomorrow to know for sure what I'm looking at
The smallframes are similar in function to the largeframes, but there are a few differences in the engine that really stand out. The most visible difference is that the carb is hiding in the body and feeds into the crankcase below the cylinder, while the exhaust exits out the top of the cylinder. Less obvious is the kicker, which actually mounts through the back of the case and wraps around and out to the same space as the large frames. The shift cables go around the back as well; there is no shifter box like the large frames have. The cables operate a stirrup rig which is contained inside the engine case.
These little bits of external weirdness belie the weirdness in the case. All the expected parts that one would expect to find in a large frame case are present, albeit in an unfamiliar orientation. The clutch goes on the intermediate shaft, which is installed backwards compared to a large frame. The output shaft has all the gears and shift cross like a large frame, though the gear order looks reversed and the shift cross moves from the wheel side of the shaft instead. Shift crosses are decidedly different-looking and are a bit of a pain to replace.
I've done a few smallframe motors now. While they're seemingly counterintuitive to anyone used to largeframe motors, they're quite manageable if you keep track of the assembly groups during tear down.
Check out smallframes.com for visual on some of the items I've mentioned.
At what point does a hobby become an addiction? I'm uncertain, but after the twelfth scooter, it sorta feels like the latter...
Good bits to know. Me and the wife have been discussing it. She's all for me getting a vintage bike again (She says she knows I'm not "complete" without one. My stagehands still comment on how it's weird not seeing me with my Stella when I go back to my old theaters). My only issue is the space constraints we are under. I only have 900 ft/sq to work with as far as secure space, and we're already tight as it is. The apartment complex is assigning motorcycle parking with secure lock points since there are so many bikes, so the Kymco will soon transfer to being an "outdoor" scooter. But there is the space for rebuilding the engine AND the frame...
Part of me has considered sending the engine out for an overhaul. Part of me is shocked that I would even think of such a "Wuss" way out, but the other part is also thinking that, if I am going to do my own body work and repaint, will I have time and space for the engine as well. Then there's the knowledge front. I will be sinking a few grand into this, and would it be smart to get it done right first? If I end up getting more work (which is what it looks like) I may not even HAVE an off season this year! I have only had 16 days off since August, and it's speeding UP! It will slow down a bit to 2 to 3 days off a week in the summer, but if there's work to be had I may snatch that up so I can finally back down to one or two permanent venues next fall.
So, decisions... at least I have a better idea what I'm getting into with a small frame. All I know is that I'm not farming out the body work. THAT is being done by me and me alone.
The engine is smaller than the largeframe one. The only real challenge s in overhauling the motor are pulling and replacing some of the bearings. It would be worth taking the cases to a machinist to have the bearings pulled and pressed. It's worth having the case matched to even a stock cylinder while it's in the shop; the ports are rather incongruous for a factory setup.
Get the OE Piaggio gasket set from Motorsport Scooters and only assemble it once. The usual Vedamotors kit is trash.
Go for it anyway. If you need help with it, ask. I've got two more to build next year; one for my V9A and one for a VMA2.
At what point does a hobby become an addiction? I'm uncertain, but after the twelfth scooter, it sorta feels like the latter...
I've replaced top ends (my P200e gave me practice at that) and done TONS of cables and wiring jobs, but the tranny is the one black hole of knowledge for me. I know this will need a complete rebuild and I'm cool with all of that... except the fun with the gears.