Stella Sidecar Question

[jpitelli]

Hi Everyone,

After a few years of wanting to get myself a Stella with a sidecar I'm finally moving forward and I couldn't be more excited. Before I do though, I need some help and I could use the expertise of all you pros . I'm looking into buying a new Stella from a local dealer and I plan on using this new rig to drive around my town which has residenital roadways and has a totally flat terrian.

Overall I know the added weight of a sidecar will greatly reduce the performance of the rig so I have a few questions. First, I'd like to discuss which model of the Stella would be best, Manual or Auto. Personally I don't mind shifting so that's not the issue. The real question is which of these models has a power advantage with the added weight of a sidecar or are they essentially the same?

Second, I've done some research on sidecars and I am really only able to locate two manufacturers:

http://www.cozysidecar.ca/
and
http://www.scooterworks.com/

Both manufacturers make a sidecar model that has the rocket look but that's about all I know. Could anyone make any recommendations of which manufacturer I should go with? Or, are there other manufacturers that I should consider that I am not aware of?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

-Jameson

[ArgonV]

I just purchased a Stella 4t manual and Cozy sidecar rig a few months back. Some things to consider:

The added weight will slow you down. Especially before engine break-in. On flat roads, my max speed is 45mph and it does take a bit to get up that high.

Driving a sidecar rig is nothing like riding a motorbike. The steering is always fighting you on accel or decel. You will need to take cornering much more slowly, and really slow down when going over dips in the road. Also, I recommend getting 75lbs of ballast to put in the sidecar when not hauling passengers. It will make the ride more smooth and help with cornering.

You will want to get a steering dampener installed. I had my local shop install the one supplied by Cozy, which is a friction dampener that bolts into the steering column and leg shield. (I would not recommend doing this yourself, there are a lot of wires that have to me moved out of the way when taking apart the headset, and you will need a powerful drill and steady hands) Before the install, the headset/steering will want to vibrate at certain speeds or surfaces and that was dangerous to drive...

I do not think Cozy has changed their sidecar mounts to work with the Stella 4t auto yet. As far as I know, only the Stella 4t manuals can equip the Cozy sidecar mount.

The Cozy sidecar looks great, but it is not what I would call a premium-built rig on the quality side of BMW or Harley. It's primitive, rugged, and looks completely vintage. I love it. My Cozy was from Scooterworks.

[Dooglas]

Because of the weight, I believe you will be better off with a manual shift 4T. The sidecar causes fairly rapid wear of the drive belt on a CVT scooter. You should also expect reduced life of the rear tire compared to a normal scooter setup.

The two sources you show are both the same sidecar - the Indian-built Cozy. It is the commonest and comes in 2 styles (bullet and classic). There are some others around that are less common such as the Inder. Here is a third source for the Cozy sidecar - http://www.americanscootercenter.com/in ... &cPath=101

[Alexbv200]

Genuine or actually Scooterworks is coming out with a Sidecar specific for the Stella Auto.
It has a new shock; you can see it in the 2015 Genuine brochure.
These should be available sometimes next month.

[gburbank]

three things for your auto to go with the new auto-specific sidecar from scooterworks (it is supposed to be lighter, too). Tasso UK sells a kevlar belt and variator rollers for the auto. If you are looking for more power, they are also the only place to get the new LML auto 150cc engine released this winter.

[Mros65]

Has anyone seen, or better, demoed the 2015 Stella Auto with the Auto sidecar mentioned above? I'm currently on research mode for a hack setup and the auto sound very appealing so that my kids could potentially ride it, disclaimer: on a closed course with adult supervision an wearing safety equipment...disclaimer

I understand it would be a 40mph machine with my two kids (8 & 10) and me, but it's ok since I'm looking for a cruising machine to use at the beach or around small towns that I could trailer in.

I've look all over the web but found nothing. I would like the exact rig as pictured in the catalog with damper and all

[viney266]

The new stella auto rig should be out soon. I own a 2T sidecar rig and have driven several. The 2T will pull a higher speed than the 4T, but the 4T works VERY well when pulling the sidecar, just the speed isn't there. A good damper set-up is a must and take some time to practice in a parking lot and on back roads. After you put an hour on it you will being to have it down.
The sidecar rig is slow, but is SO much fun. The attention it gets is astounding. Be prepared to talk when you stop

The 4T will still pull 40-45 , but I recommend a pipe if you want a little more speed. I installed the GPR on the last one we set up. That and a few carb tweaks helped a lot. They will pull with a stock set up, just a little slower.

I have not ridden a stellauto set up sidecar yet, but I am really looking forward to trying one of those as well. Hopefully a pipe is soon coming for the stellauto for a little help in the oomph department.

[Mros65]

Thanks for the reply Viney. I have read about the different options and some do point towards the 2T as the better one for the side car. Costwise, that would probably be the best option since being older should be cheaper. I figured if going with a used 2T and sidecar I could probably find something in the $3000 vs the auto which would be more in the mid range $5000 or maybe more. Maybe that's the better decision to find out how well me and my kids like it before going on the buy new deal.

There is 2005 currently on CL for the hack and the asking price is $4000 which I believe is quite steep since I've seen the scoots alone for $1500 or so.

I do wish I could demo one locally so I could form an opinion on the whole thing...

[gburbank]

A couple of notes: Tasso uk also sells a pipe for the auto which is "tuneable" to match your engine setup. The 151 engine will probably make it here eventually, but we all said the same thing about the 200 4t. My 4 stroke with a 165cc kit, polini pipe and carb, ram air filter, and timing slider will run 56mph in the flat all day now (indicated, of course). I have regularly had both my sons and my wife ride with me and still ran at 42mph before I did all the mods. The dampener makes it MUCH more stable at top speed, not twitchy at all like my 2 wheeled ones. The 150 4t has more torque but isn't easily "tuned" like a 2t, and there are many more big bore kit options available for the 2t. Sidecar rigs add a lot of load on an engine, and 4t's handle the increased heat and stress better than a 2t can, so you will likely have greater longevity. Of course, you can order a 200 engine for either one to replace it. I'v ordered a 200 4t for mine from europe. There are a few suppliers here that carry the p200 2t engine.

[Mros65]

Thanks for the info gburbank, it helps to have a comparison from experience riders of the rig. In the meanwhile I'll be looking for a rig and reading to educate my self.

[gburbank]

I wrote a long-winded review in the forum last year that may help you , along with several other members weighing in on the topic. you can read them here: viewtopic.php?t=23975&start=50

[Mros65]

Well look what I found... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c60PEFSAFeI

It shows a Auto Stella 150cc with the new designed sidecar. You can notice the shock on the right side of the sidecar and also it appears that the "rubber bands" on the left side of the sidecar are gone.

I also notice that the horncast for the "Star" is a bit different and maybe more "streamlined" than the Stella.

Maybe old news to some but since I'm just starting my research its all new to me

P.S.: I wonder why Genuine decided to bring the 125cc as opposed to the 150cc

[ArgonV]

Oooo interesting! I'm not sure i like the shocks. The rubber bands are kinda cool lol.

[JohnKiniston]

P.S.: I wonder why Genuine decided to bring the 125cc as opposed to the 150cc

The 125 came out first so it's what Genuine had available to them. I believe they would have to certify the 150 separately with DOT to import it which is likely not worth the fees for an additional 25cc.

[Mros65]

Is the difference between a 125cc Vs. a 150cc not that big specially when adding a side car?. I guess the best bet would be to go for a PX200 if wanting to do it with a Vespa but the pricing would surely be much more than the stella combination.

It seems for what I have read that the people seem to be somewhat happy with the 150cc/sidecar combination even though there seems to be different opinions between the 2t Vs. 4t options. I have not found anything about the auto/sidecar so not sure what the performance would be.

Like I said, I think I would be "OK" with 45/50 mph to cruise around with the kids.

[Dooglas]

I guess the best bet would be to go for a PX200 if wanting to do it with a Vespa but the pricing would surely be much more than the stella combination.

I do not think that is particularly true. The problem with the PX200 is that it was discontinued in the US many years ago so you have to find a late 70s/early 80s bike that has been rebuilt or that you could rebuild. Likewise you could rebuild a PX150 or a 2T Stella with a larger cylinder if you wished.

[Mros65]

Dooglas, my comment about the PX200 was more oriented towards the engine size meaning a 200cc should be a better pull for the hack, but you are right that if it comes to rebuild a PX it could be done also with a Stela 2t and probably cheaper too.

[gburbank]

I considered that approach myself. The current setup on my 4t (165 cc cylinder kit, polini pipe,22 mm carb, timing slider) gets me 52 mph, solo. A 2t 200cc engine from american scooter center runs about $2500 plus shipping, plus the cost of the scooter itself. I picked up a used 4 stroke scooter for $1800 and ordered a 200cc 4t engine and swing arm adapter for another $1800, including shipping from europe. Seemed more cost effective. Still awaiting its arrival, however. Total cost ends up the same as a new Stella. Why the second frame, you ask? Not gonna waste that perfectly good fire-breathing 165! There are days when I just wanna run solo. The kids LOVE riding in the sidecar, and the 4t engine handles the extra load just fine without fear of overheating. But they keep growing...

[Neurotic-Hapi-Snak]

The current setup on my 4t (165 cc cylinder kit, polini pipe,22 mm carb, timing slider) gets me 52 mph, solo.

Is that with or without a sidecar?

[gburbank]

With the sidecar, 52 mph on the flat no wind, GPS verified. 56 indicated. Add the wife, two boys and its down to 42-45. But it was expensive to get this gain, halfway to the cost of the 200 engine. In retrospect, perhaps I should have ordered the 200 from the start. If it was more readily available, I would have, but they are hard to find, hard to get someone to ship overseas, and parts are simply not available here. The 165 runs great, and everything is available to service and repair it.

[Neurotic-Hapi-Snak]

I was going to say my Stella could do over 52 gps stock, you have a sidecar. So are you swapping the sidecar over to the 200 or are you buying another?

[gburbank]

Ahh, the three way engine swap. The 200 goes in the sidecar hack. The 165 goes in the 4stroke for 2 wheeled fun, and the 150 gets oil-fogged and set on the shelf until I blow up one of the other engines. I'm trying to get it all done in time for Amerivespa in indianapolis next month, ready for the track lap on the speedway...fingers crossed.

[mfedela2]

Hi - I've had a 2 stroke Stella with sidecar for about 3 years. BE CAREFUL! The nut on the inside of the axle came loose and I ended up having to take it apart and take home in the back of my Expedition. Could have been the guy who assembled it wasn't careful, but I'm having a HECK of a time trying to get the nut replaced. I couldn't find it in the road, don't know how far back it fell off...

Does anyone have any suggestions???

Thanks.

[gburbank]

If Genuine cant help you, try these guys http://www.cyclesidecar.com/ they sell the same cozy sidecar for royal enfields. I suspect the nut is the same.

[ArgonV]

Can you post a pic of where this nut is? I'll inspect mine!

[EvilNerdLord]

here's how to install/attach a sidecar...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx0ifF3T5ro

[jimmbomb]

Hi - I've had a 2 stroke Stella with sidecar for about 3 years. BE CAREFUL! The nut on the inside of the axle came loose and I ended up having to take it apart and take home in the back of my Expedition. Could have been the guy who assembled it wasn't careful, but I'm having a HECK of a time trying to get the nut replaced. I couldn't find it in the road, don't know how far back it fell off...

Does anyone have any suggestions???

Thanks.

Take the axle into a local hardware store and match it up with a nut.
And get lockwasher too or a nylock nut.
Im always bringing stuff into my hardware store to match up threads. And if its too big to carry in, theyll let you carry differents ones outside to the parking lot to try them out for fit.
Be honest and theyll work with you.
good luck

[viney266]

Just FYI, I have installed a few sidecars and that nut is supposed to have a locking tab bent over it. oopsie. Make sure you use a nyloc or a locking tab over the nut.

[gburbank]

Sooo, after a long summer with the 165 kit, I fimally pulled the engine and dropped in the other stock 200cc 4t, adding a tasso pipe, slider, and Polini 22mm carb. The increase in torque is immediate and dramatic over the 165. Although I am still breaking it in, I can already report that downshifting going uphill is greatly reduced. The 200 sidecar combo performs like a stock 150 4t with no sidecar in terms of power and acceleration. A few hundred more miles and I'll let you know what the top end speed is.

[misplacedyank]

Sooo, after a long summer with the 165 kit, I fimally pulled the engine and dropped in the other stock 200cc 4t, adding a tasso pipe, slider, and Polini 22mm carb. The increase in torque is immediate and dramatic over the 165. Although I am still breaking it in, I can already report that downshifting going uphill is greatly reduced. The 200 sidecar combo performs like a stock 150 4t with no sidecar in terms of power and acceleration. A few hundred more miles and I'll let you know what the top end speed is.

Please do keep us informed! This is something I've been waiting to here about. When wifey is playing Hack Monkey Stella is really a dog driving around Phoenix.

[gburbank]

Will do! but, as we have received 9" of snow overnight, it may be awhile. Having ridden the other stella with the first 200 4t engine I bought, it has loads of torque but the top end is limited by it's gearing to somewhere between 65-67 mph indicated. With the new engine in the hack after 200 miles of break-in riding, with my two boys in the sidecar I had no difficulty hitting 50 without pushing it or even twisting beyond 3/4 throttle, and as I said, I'm still taking it easy. Well worth the $1800, it's a totally transformed ride.

[Dooglas]

With the new engine in the hack after 200 miles of break-in riding, with my two boys in the sidecar I had no difficulty hitting 50 without pushing it or even twisting beyond 3/4 throttle, and as I said, I'm still taking it easy. Well worth the $1800, it's a totally transformed ride.

That sounds pretty good to me. After all, how fast do you want to go in an old school design scooter with an old school design hack - both with somewhat crude suspension?

[misplacedyank]

as we have received 9" of snow overnight, it may be awhile

Sounds like you could use our other sidecar