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19 Days and Rattler Stoped
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Ray Knobs
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Major Redneck
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I really want the Rattler good things come to those who wait, i hope. Besides it can carrys a cooler full of Ice Cold Drinks. Great to have on a poker run. Like im ever going to do that. It does carry a 5 gal. can of gas well though. Its doing more than I thought it would far as pickup and speed. Keeping going is another thing. But I would rather have problems now than in 2 years from now when warrntey is a thing of the past.
Yea Wheelz buz kill indeed... and im tell you iv got it dialed in good the way its running,,, iv put 555 miles on it in a week way its running i feel runin is complete... I did add Klotz KL-300 2stroke oil the oil iv used for years and have great things to say about it. My 50cc has a little over 20,000 miles on the rebuild using Klotz.
After about 50 or so miles after adding the Klotz to the Rat i did notice a improvment in gas milage,,, responsness and major smoothness.
Again the engine is not hurt but they is a little puddle of oil under it on my floormat. My son said it look like blood, (Klotz is red) i said yes its bleeding, but i dont have the time to worry with it right now i got other things to do.
Also i dont think that the rattler is at fault here at all. Just maybe a hurried tech, or carelessness, not knowing how to. I'll make it my point to see that he has the knowhow to do it right the first time.
Here is how to properly remove rubber hoses that have been on a hot engine.
Inspect hose and what is going to happen when you take it off. Some hose have very high pressure with fuel, oil etc... dont be a dead or one eye fool.
If you have a replacement hose: use a razer to cut the hose off, if pulling like a wet monkey dont do it. Just cut it off like a pro being careful not to scare the nipple. remember its a seal.
If you do not have a replacement hose, use a rag with a pair of pliers, needlenose on some work better and some not. work back and forth easy till it frees up... never just pull on the hose it will stress it as in this case and make it lose/not fit/seal.
When replacing back the hose use somekind of lube, oil works for and oil line, gas line. Air type hoses use oil or poltrolim jelly (Miss spelled word) but you get the point. There are other products out there on the market for hose lube but i dont have money for that..
Avoid the old spit on the finger or hose in the mouth, it kinda cooks the rubber on there and does not taste good on the next hose. Water hose use potrolim jelly haha again tat word NOT OIL OR SPIT. doing this makes it seal better and easyer to get off the next time "Maybe".
Always put a clamp on. Even on low pressure hose such as the oil line from the tank to the pump as in this case "THATS WHY". This is the 2nd problem my little tech had being that for what ever the reason this man took a shortcut and put my my new engine that is running very well in harms way,,, not to speak much about my life.
Hell might as well keep going,,, dont use dikes/sidecutters to cut small hoses use a razer, remember your making a seal.
Tighten the clamp slowly and do not over tighten. If you strip it out replace it now or on the side of the road. Dont think that just cuz its on there its going to work. Spring types are becoming very common now and some require tools made in China to get them off. Most can be done with a good pair of pliers, iv found that most the time ChannelLocks works easyest if you have the room.
Vacum hose. one way to check for a vacum hose leak is to use Carbarator cleaner. Being very careful, carb clean will burn but somewhat fume dead far as spark fire. With engine idleing, shield engine from overspray and lightly spray along the vacum hose if you hear engine tone change you have a bad hose, you well hear what im talking about if u think you have a vacum leak. Again if you dont think this is a good idea DONT DO IT.
again this is my advise and my be overlooked.
Yea Wheelz buz kill indeed... and im tell you iv got it dialed in good the way its running,,, iv put 555 miles on it in a week way its running i feel runin is complete... I did add Klotz KL-300 2stroke oil the oil iv used for years and have great things to say about it. My 50cc has a little over 20,000 miles on the rebuild using Klotz.
After about 50 or so miles after adding the Klotz to the Rat i did notice a improvment in gas milage,,, responsness and major smoothness.
Again the engine is not hurt but they is a little puddle of oil under it on my floormat. My son said it look like blood, (Klotz is red) i said yes its bleeding, but i dont have the time to worry with it right now i got other things to do.
Also i dont think that the rattler is at fault here at all. Just maybe a hurried tech, or carelessness, not knowing how to. I'll make it my point to see that he has the knowhow to do it right the first time.
Here is how to properly remove rubber hoses that have been on a hot engine.
Inspect hose and what is going to happen when you take it off. Some hose have very high pressure with fuel, oil etc... dont be a dead or one eye fool.
If you have a replacement hose: use a razer to cut the hose off, if pulling like a wet monkey dont do it. Just cut it off like a pro being careful not to scare the nipple. remember its a seal.
If you do not have a replacement hose, use a rag with a pair of pliers, needlenose on some work better and some not. work back and forth easy till it frees up... never just pull on the hose it will stress it as in this case and make it lose/not fit/seal.
When replacing back the hose use somekind of lube, oil works for and oil line, gas line. Air type hoses use oil or poltrolim jelly (Miss spelled word) but you get the point. There are other products out there on the market for hose lube but i dont have money for that..
Avoid the old spit on the finger or hose in the mouth, it kinda cooks the rubber on there and does not taste good on the next hose. Water hose use potrolim jelly haha again tat word NOT OIL OR SPIT. doing this makes it seal better and easyer to get off the next time "Maybe".
Always put a clamp on. Even on low pressure hose such as the oil line from the tank to the pump as in this case "THATS WHY". This is the 2nd problem my little tech had being that for what ever the reason this man took a shortcut and put my my new engine that is running very well in harms way,,, not to speak much about my life.
Hell might as well keep going,,, dont use dikes/sidecutters to cut small hoses use a razer, remember your making a seal.
Tighten the clamp slowly and do not over tighten. If you strip it out replace it now or on the side of the road. Dont think that just cuz its on there its going to work. Spring types are becoming very common now and some require tools made in China to get them off. Most can be done with a good pair of pliers, iv found that most the time ChannelLocks works easyest if you have the room.
Vacum hose. one way to check for a vacum hose leak is to use Carbarator cleaner. Being very careful, carb clean will burn but somewhat fume dead far as spark fire. With engine idleing, shield engine from overspray and lightly spray along the vacum hose if you hear engine tone change you have a bad hose, you well hear what im talking about if u think you have a vacum leak. Again if you dont think this is a good idea DONT DO IT.
again this is my advise and my be overlooked.
Last edited by Major Redneck on Sun May 31, 2009 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Major Redneck
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brimstone
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dang that sucks. i wonder how much the "hurried tech" played into it. i'm sure they were thinking, "this guy's pissed, we need to get his rattler back to him asap." i'm glad you weren't hurt or got in an accident or anything. but still lame. sounds like this one is a little easy to fix though. good luck.
<a href="http://www.fuelly.com/driver/brimstone/rattler-110" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.fuelly.com/sig-us/20736.png" width="500" height="63" alt="Fuelly" title="Share and compare MPG at Fuelly" border="0"/></a>
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Major Redneck
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Well Gent's i was at the shop when they opened up the doors driving my cage. The person that i wanted to talk too (owner) was not there... I talked to the service manager and told her the problem. She got very defensive about the clamp being off. She could not beleave that the clamp was off. When i told her it look like there was also a crack in the elbow of the hose, she indecated i did that. She told me she would send the tech to pick up the bike later today. And she walked off. She did not even give me a chance to also tell her i was going to get the Rattler Performance Kit and have them install it while it was here. Not now will thay do that, heres why.
After getting home and thinking it over i called her back and told her that i would fix the problem that they have really spent alot of time and it was something i could handle. She told me that my Warrenty was void cuz i told the tech Friday when i was there to order some oil, that the bike was running like it should, that all i had to do was lean it up a little. She said being I adjusted the airmixture that I had void my warrenty. What you think?
Anyway after taking the panels and such off in order to remove the oil tank i notice that line was split/cracked at the elbow of the hose going into the oil pump. I trimed off the crack and installed it back on the nipple and put the clamp on it. Added oil started up and no leak. I did have to take the steal hose spring (that protects the hose) off untill i can get a new one. Also another clamp on the hose that goes into the intake was not placed back. Taking pictures all the way.
Tomorrow i well take the hose to that shop and order one, mind you ill be more than happy to pay cash upfront as i did when i paid cash for the bike. Ill walk back to the service department show her the hose, the pictures, and say lady im not mad and you well never have to worry about working on my bike or anyother ones bike that i know, if i have a say.
Taking short cuts (just cuz there is no presser does not mean it does not need a clamp). Working on a scooter when all you work on is Hogs might have piss off the tech, i dont know. But i do know that just riding and operating the bike is not going to cause the hose to split, not that new. What was done was it was pulled untill it fractured. Iv done the same thing many times till I learned not to do it, it would come back to bit you.
She tryed to blame me for the bike not running right when i bought it, saying i adjusted the airmixture and made it too lean.
This afternoon i went to another large bike shop (right across the street) RideNow. I talked with the tech there and he asked all kinda of questions about the bike looked it over... after a short while he asked what oil was in the bike when i got it. I really did not know, i told him i do remember it was green... He said it sounds like they put Premix 2stroke oil in instead of Injector 2stroke oil when they preped it. I do know the oil that was in it the last time when they put the new engine in it was not green it was more clear like motul. Anyway who knows at this point.
Iv learned again in my old age you can not trust someone to work on your stuff and do it right. I dont care warrenty or not they well never tuch my bike again. What "They" did was put my life and others in danger cuz of whatever the "Their" reason. They can blame me all they want I know what iv done, and its nothing to cause a "New" hose that i could not even see under the seat, under the oil tank ontop of the head, to pull off the clamp and split the hose,,, nor would i run one too lean "Nuts"
One question? Is Premix 2T oil green? I dont think iv ever seen and i know iv never used it. I use Klotz KL-300 (its blood red)and have for years. Most 2t oil iv seen is clear/lightyellowishbrownish
After getting home and thinking it over i called her back and told her that i would fix the problem that they have really spent alot of time and it was something i could handle. She told me that my Warrenty was void cuz i told the tech Friday when i was there to order some oil, that the bike was running like it should, that all i had to do was lean it up a little. She said being I adjusted the airmixture that I had void my warrenty. What you think?
Anyway after taking the panels and such off in order to remove the oil tank i notice that line was split/cracked at the elbow of the hose going into the oil pump. I trimed off the crack and installed it back on the nipple and put the clamp on it. Added oil started up and no leak. I did have to take the steal hose spring (that protects the hose) off untill i can get a new one. Also another clamp on the hose that goes into the intake was not placed back. Taking pictures all the way.
Tomorrow i well take the hose to that shop and order one, mind you ill be more than happy to pay cash upfront as i did when i paid cash for the bike. Ill walk back to the service department show her the hose, the pictures, and say lady im not mad and you well never have to worry about working on my bike or anyother ones bike that i know, if i have a say.
Taking short cuts (just cuz there is no presser does not mean it does not need a clamp). Working on a scooter when all you work on is Hogs might have piss off the tech, i dont know. But i do know that just riding and operating the bike is not going to cause the hose to split, not that new. What was done was it was pulled untill it fractured. Iv done the same thing many times till I learned not to do it, it would come back to bit you.
She tryed to blame me for the bike not running right when i bought it, saying i adjusted the airmixture and made it too lean.
This afternoon i went to another large bike shop (right across the street) RideNow. I talked with the tech there and he asked all kinda of questions about the bike looked it over... after a short while he asked what oil was in the bike when i got it. I really did not know, i told him i do remember it was green... He said it sounds like they put Premix 2stroke oil in instead of Injector 2stroke oil when they preped it. I do know the oil that was in it the last time when they put the new engine in it was not green it was more clear like motul. Anyway who knows at this point.
Iv learned again in my old age you can not trust someone to work on your stuff and do it right. I dont care warrenty or not they well never tuch my bike again. What "They" did was put my life and others in danger cuz of whatever the "Their" reason. They can blame me all they want I know what iv done, and its nothing to cause a "New" hose that i could not even see under the seat, under the oil tank ontop of the head, to pull off the clamp and split the hose,,, nor would i run one too lean "Nuts"
One question? Is Premix 2T oil green? I dont think iv ever seen and i know iv never used it. I use Klotz KL-300 (its blood red)and have for years. Most 2t oil iv seen is clear/lightyellowishbrownish
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Ray Knobs
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Major Redneck
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Knowing running one too lean would fry the rings and piston, why in gods name would i do that to something that is mine. I own this bike, not making payments. I picked this bike on the web not by going to http://www.extrememotorcycles.com/ and then picking out the bike. The ones that has followed this should know how much I really want "Ratt". After talking with the service manger lady i understand how little she and the other know about 2strokes. I even told the lady Friday the bike was running great and asked her what oil would she think best for the scooter. She said " i dont know talk to *^%#* in the parts department. Thats when i said to myself walking to part "good ill use Klotz" Ordered a case. They can send it back or sale it, I orderd a case from another dealer this afternoon.
Really i can understand there delema, if what i and the tech talked about today they messed it up by putting the wrong oil in it. Again I dont really know. It ran very poorly when i got it would shut off when i stoped, shut off going at normal speed, (again the bike comes to a very fast stop be ready).
Ill also fill a complant with the BBB as well as caution all i see about the work done on my bike that put my life at risk.
I can say i have a 2009 Rattler Buck Ten that runs very well, I just got back from a tank ride 100 or so miles ran wonderfuly, and thats all that really matters to me...
Really i can understand there delema, if what i and the tech talked about today they messed it up by putting the wrong oil in it. Again I dont really know. It ran very poorly when i got it would shut off when i stoped, shut off going at normal speed, (again the bike comes to a very fast stop be ready).
Ill also fill a complant with the BBB as well as caution all i see about the work done on my bike that put my life at risk.
I can say i have a 2009 Rattler Buck Ten that runs very well, I just got back from a tank ride 100 or so miles ran wonderfuly, and thats all that really matters to me...
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B02S4
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Rokky
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Major Red.
You are definitely a brute for punishment.
You have got one of the best dispositions I have ever heard of.
You put up with these jerks far longer then I would have.
After all of that they should have either offered you a full refund, a new scooter, or full credit on the scooter of your choice.
You paid for a New scooter and ended up with a used one.
What's even more appalling to me is that the Genuine Scooter Company did not come to your aide when things got totally out of hand.
There is no excuse for this customer abuse.
After reading all your posts I'm rethinking the Buddy 125 or 150 or the Buddy period that I have been procrastinating over for these several months.
Maybe going the extra mile and dollar for a Kymco Peoples 150 or the Vespa seems more feasible to me now.
I wish you luck in the future and hope you have trouble free riding from here on out.
You are definitely a brute for punishment.
You have got one of the best dispositions I have ever heard of.
You put up with these jerks far longer then I would have.
After all of that they should have either offered you a full refund, a new scooter, or full credit on the scooter of your choice.
You paid for a New scooter and ended up with a used one.
What's even more appalling to me is that the Genuine Scooter Company did not come to your aide when things got totally out of hand.
There is no excuse for this customer abuse.
After reading all your posts I'm rethinking the Buddy 125 or 150 or the Buddy period that I have been procrastinating over for these several months.
Maybe going the extra mile and dollar for a Kymco Peoples 150 or the Vespa seems more feasible to me now.
I wish you luck in the future and hope you have trouble free riding from here on out.
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Major Redneck
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Rokky, hell this was easy, i had a wife for 12 years, that was 12 years ago, and i still remember... Anyway... All in all i would have to say Genuine did there share and then some...
Shop, misscomunacation, shortcut, missinformed personel, uneducated salesman/crew, is really to blame.
I talked to the man from Genuine Friday that sent the new engine for a good while, informed him of the oil problem "maybe". Gave him the story here. Really Genuine really did shine like a star,,, when asked they sent the piston and rings in less than a week, when asked they sent the engine in less than a week. Leaving the hose clamp off and stress fracturing the hose PRICELESS!!!
Would I buy another Genuine bike " Damn Skippy" not a Buddy, mind you and no afence to Buddy owners I would love to have a red Stella with a Sidecar so my dowg well stop crying when i go for a ride. She just a little too big to just hang on.
Ok the bike is dail-in SWEET, iv got 900 miles on the new engine. After "tuning" the engine (using the sparkplug way) it far exceeded what I thought this bike was all about before I bought it. With my 165lb weight it is like a slingshot. Iv opened it up once down a hill and hit 62. I opened it up today and was crusing at 55 for a good 5 miles up and down hills and did very well only a few hill would it not hold the 55. It really runs sweet at 40-45.
Few things i dont like about it is ROLLER noise so does my 50,,, bucks coming to a stop untill the clutch cuts out. Roller and Clutch sping should take care of most of that, did on my 50. The Floorboard is just too high up it needs footpegs for the rear rider.
Within the next few weeks im hopping to be able to afford to spring for the stage one kit, few fuel filters, new oil line hose, bugeye 2 goggles, and maybe if i have enough matching covers for my bikes, from Scooterworks.
See after all that BS im still a happy camper i remember what wife was like.
If i had it to do all over again i think i would hunt down ether a apprilla or CPI dealer. I like the thought of water cool 2T's the CPI GTR50 looks mean but also is underpowered. The CPI GTR150 is 4T. Or a red Stella.
Scooter'in is more fun than beating up your sister and it comes with a key...
Shop, misscomunacation, shortcut, missinformed personel, uneducated salesman/crew, is really to blame.
I talked to the man from Genuine Friday that sent the new engine for a good while, informed him of the oil problem "maybe". Gave him the story here. Really Genuine really did shine like a star,,, when asked they sent the piston and rings in less than a week, when asked they sent the engine in less than a week. Leaving the hose clamp off and stress fracturing the hose PRICELESS!!!
Would I buy another Genuine bike " Damn Skippy" not a Buddy, mind you and no afence to Buddy owners I would love to have a red Stella with a Sidecar so my dowg well stop crying when i go for a ride. She just a little too big to just hang on.
Ok the bike is dail-in SWEET, iv got 900 miles on the new engine. After "tuning" the engine (using the sparkplug way) it far exceeded what I thought this bike was all about before I bought it. With my 165lb weight it is like a slingshot. Iv opened it up once down a hill and hit 62. I opened it up today and was crusing at 55 for a good 5 miles up and down hills and did very well only a few hill would it not hold the 55. It really runs sweet at 40-45.
Few things i dont like about it is ROLLER noise so does my 50,,, bucks coming to a stop untill the clutch cuts out. Roller and Clutch sping should take care of most of that, did on my 50. The Floorboard is just too high up it needs footpegs for the rear rider.
Within the next few weeks im hopping to be able to afford to spring for the stage one kit, few fuel filters, new oil line hose, bugeye 2 goggles, and maybe if i have enough matching covers for my bikes, from Scooterworks.
See after all that BS im still a happy camper i remember what wife was like.
If i had it to do all over again i think i would hunt down ether a apprilla or CPI dealer. I like the thought of water cool 2T's the CPI GTR50 looks mean but also is underpowered. The CPI GTR150 is 4T. Or a red Stella.
Scooter'in is more fun than beating up your sister and it comes with a key...
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Rokky
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Major Redneck
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Here is some crappy $*#(*^$^#@) workmanship. Not only did it cost me down time, money, and could have very easly killed me, it just shows you to ether do the work yourself, or check behind someone who has worked on your bike, car, boat, plane, etc... what is this world coming too?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/maj_redneck/
I have tryed to post the photos here but unable to figure out just how on this site.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/maj_redneck/
I have tryed to post the photos here but unable to figure out just how on this site.
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Ray Knobs
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Ray Knobs
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ericalm
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Instructions here:Ray Knobs wrote:on flickr open the pic, right click on image and select "view image" that will load the url of the image into the nav bar. copy that and then paste it into modern buddy between the img bbcode
faq.php?mode=bbcode#9
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
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Major Redneck
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On a bike can be deadly, Oil was dumped all over the engine and rear tire. The only thing i can think of worse than oil on the rear tire is oil on the front.B02S4 wrote:Yes, it does. And it could happen to anyone!Major Redneck wrote:...it just shows you to ether do the work yourself, or check behind someone who has worked on your bike...
now to try this again to post photo...
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Ray Knobs
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Major Redneck
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Major Redneck
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After removing the rear fender mount on the right hand side to weld it back cuz it broken in to two.
I noticed that one of the two bolts that hold the pipe was gone! No not fell out, but broken in two from over torching the bolt. Notice theres no damage from the pipe hitting anything, which would have caused this to happen as well. UNREAL!!! The pipe is not leaking that i can tell but will be parked till repaired. There might be enough to get a hold onto the remaining bolt in the head of the engine. If not its going to have to be ether replaced, or drilled out and retaped if needed.
I also noticed that paint on the coilspring on the rear strut has scratched with futher looking into this, I took off the air cleaner to see what the problem was. One bolt was missing, and in its place the tech had taken the drain tube from the carb and stuck it in the hole where the bolt went in the front of the air cleaner housing. Found another bolt to replace the missing one and reinstalled the air cleaner there is now a good 1/4" clear from the spring.... Now i need to find a yellow paint just to paint the very eyesore missing paint... I'll hunt the hobby stores for a close color being its small i need little but it needs to be on the money in hue.
Again I wonder what else was not done right by the shop? I'll connect my Battery Tender Plus to it and figure out my next move.
I noticed that one of the two bolts that hold the pipe was gone! No not fell out, but broken in two from over torching the bolt. Notice theres no damage from the pipe hitting anything, which would have caused this to happen as well. UNREAL!!! The pipe is not leaking that i can tell but will be parked till repaired. There might be enough to get a hold onto the remaining bolt in the head of the engine. If not its going to have to be ether replaced, or drilled out and retaped if needed.
I also noticed that paint on the coilspring on the rear strut has scratched with futher looking into this, I took off the air cleaner to see what the problem was. One bolt was missing, and in its place the tech had taken the drain tube from the carb and stuck it in the hole where the bolt went in the front of the air cleaner housing. Found another bolt to replace the missing one and reinstalled the air cleaner there is now a good 1/4" clear from the spring.... Now i need to find a yellow paint just to paint the very eyesore missing paint... I'll hunt the hobby stores for a close color being its small i need little but it needs to be on the money in hue.
Again I wonder what else was not done right by the shop? I'll connect my Battery Tender Plus to it and figure out my next move.
Scoot'in is more fun than beating up your sister, and it comes with a key!!!