problems with engine cutting off

kendora · Post by **kendora** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:42 am

Hey guys,

I've been riding my Buddy 125 since April 2009 and I am starting to get really irritated with a few problems.
For the first few months, I had no complaints. It ran perfectly. But about halfway through the summer there was one occasion in which I was driving and the engine seemed to randomly cut off on me. It just turned off, right in the middle of driving. I was able to pull over to the side of the road and safely start it up again without any more problems for a while.
I had been driving at about 40 mph, I might have been accelerating at the time, but I'm not entirely sure. It's been a while.

In any case, time passed without any more problems. That is until recently, when I moved to Florida for school, and it started happening more frequently. Within a month, I think it cut off on me 3-4 times in the middle of the road. After the engine cut off this time, it was very, very difficult to get it running again--I was stalled at the side of the road a few minutes trying over and over to get it to start, which, I might add, is kind of terrifying. I tried to fill up the tank with gas, to see if it made any difference after the incident. Still nothing--it happens even with a full tank.
Eventually I came to a point at which I was so frustrated with it that I took it into a dealership last week that sells Genuines to take a good look at it.
The scooter has only about 900 miles on it. They kept it for four days, trying to replicate the problem I'm having, and weren't able to. All they could do for me was change the oil and clean out the air filter. They also drained the gas in case it was bad/contaminated with something messing with the engine. They couldn't figure out what was wrong after a full inspection.

So I got my scooter back from them and took it out today. The weather was nice so I took a friend cruising downtown, when, about 15 minutes in, the stupid thing cut off. Again. While we were moving uphill, on a very tall bridge. I struggled to get it going again for about 10 minutes, it would start for a moment and then die again.
Whenever I AM trying to start it up again, I always use the push to start button. I think Buddies have a kick start(?) but I'm a bit of a novice and I admit I have no idea where it is or how to use it, haha. I'm not sure it would make a difference anyway.

I feel like there may be a few things that maaaaay be happening to attribute to this:
-The bike might be under a little bit of 'stress' when this happens--more than once it happens when I accelerate at a fairly high speed (anywhere from 40-55 mph) or, in today's instance, had some extra weight on it as we were going uphill.
-It seems to happen once it's been used a little. With the exception of the first time around, it happens either 10-15 minutes into the ride or even sooner if I'm coming BACK from wherever I've been.
-Once the engine cuts off, it's difficult to get it running consistently again for several minutes. However, sometimes, when it dies, the engine is still running faintly but the throttle has no effect.

Has anyone else ever had any similar issues or have any idea what could possibly be going on? This is getting extremely frustrating and I would really appreciate any help. The scooter's not even 6 months old, for Pete's sake. :S I need a working ride!

nateandcourt · Post by **nateandcourt** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:49 am

From what I have been seeing on the forums, do not top off your gas tank leave some room. This can cause stalling and vapor lock.

I do not know if this is your problem but it is a possibility. It is something I would have done f I had not seen the forums here.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:37 pm

A agree, sounds like vapor lock. Leave an inch or more to spare when filling up. That should help any vapor lock problem. Also, has your gas cap been drilled? Check that you have the new improved Buddy gas cap. It is a warrantee replacement I believe.

bdarling · Post by **bdarling** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:10 pm

I would also put my money on vapor lock. Warm weather + wide open throttle + over-filled fuel tank usually equals vapor lock. Like the previous posters said, leave an inch or more below the fill neck when re-fueling and you should be just fine. The drilled cap also helps.

-B

iwabj · Post by **iwabj** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:27 pm

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:44 pm

3 possibilities:

Too much pressure from overfilling the gas tank which causes vapor lock.

Too much gas splashing into the vapor recovery tube and into the charcoal canister.

Or #3 which is a bad stator and the battery is not properly charging and keeping the bike running.

Most likley it's one of the two forms of vapor lock causing the engine to shut off. It's a very common problem for new riders. Just keep the gas 2-3 inches below the neck and you'll be fine.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:49 pm

iwabj wrote:The term Vapor lock has been used to describe this type of problem for a long time here. But I'm not sure if this is technically the correct term to describe it. My past understanding of vapor lock had to do with the fuel vaporizing (turning to a gaseous state to soon) in the fuel delivery lines. I suspect this is not what everyone is referring to, but I can't be sure.

I had the impression that its the fuel return line becoming initially becoming blocked (from overfilling) thereby creating a vacuum (negative pressure) in the system that prevents the free flow of fuel from tank through the main supply line into the carburetor?

Yeah, it got incorrectly labeled vapor lock a very long time ago, when infact its vacuum lock.

broke · Post by **broke** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:36 pm

iwabj wrote:The term Vapor lock has been used to describe this type of problem for a long time here. But I'm not sure if this is technically the correct term to describe it. My past understanding of vapor lock had to do with the fuel vaporizing (turning to a gaseous state to soon) in the fuel delivery lines. I suspect this is not what everyone is referring to, but I can't be sure.

I had the impression that its the fuel return line becoming initially becoming blocked (from overfilling) thereby creating a vacuum (negative pressure) in the system that prevents the free flow of fuel from tank through the main supply line into the carburetor?

ugh. it's a losing battle... but you're definitely right.

And, I think it is pretty impossible to guarantee that you never plug your vapor recovery system... I vented my cap right after I started having vacuum problems with the metal gas tank and have never had any problems with stalling, OR gas leaking from the vented cap. (but I vented mine intelligently to minimize that possibility.)

I have no idea how big a hole in the ozone is hovering above my scooter however

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:17 pm

kendora, Did you buy the scooter new from a dealer? And is it an '09 model or an '08 they had sitting around for some reason?

If you purchased the scooter new, the problem will be covered under warranty. While (as many have said) it sounds like classic vapor (or vacuum) lock, there are other possible causes. If the scooter is under warranty, it's up to the dealer to figure it out and fix it.

The '08 Buddy 150s, in particular, had vapor lock issues. Genuine provided dealers with replacement gas caps that fixed the problem. They also have a kit to alter the venting in the gas tank.

If the easy do it yourself vapor lock solutions (leave an inch or so at the top of the tank when filling; ventilate the gas cap if it is not already) don't work, you may have to take it back to the dealer. At this point, they should look at the fuel supply and lines, the carburetor and the valves.

This kind of problem is almost always the result of either no fuel going into the engine or no air coming in to allow combustion.

Kaos wrote:
iwabj wrote:The term Vapor lock has been used to describe this type of problem for a long time here. But I'm not sure if this is technically the correct term to describe it. My past understanding of vapor lock had to do with the fuel vaporizing (turning to a gaseous state to soon) in the fuel delivery lines. I suspect this is not what everyone is referring to, but I can't be sure.

I had the impression that its the fuel return line becoming initially becoming blocked (from overfilling) thereby creating a vacuum (negative pressure) in the system that prevents the free flow of fuel from tank through the main supply line into the carburetor?
Yeah, it got incorrectly labeled vapor lock a very long time ago, when infact its vacuum lock.

I'm as guilty as anyone in knowingly misusing "vapor lock," because it's what the issue is commonly referred to and also how someone would find it using search.

iwabj · Post by **iwabj** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:32 pm

mojobuddy70cc · Post by **mojobuddy70cc** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:14 am

,,below the neck? on my 50 i would think that is 1/2 a tank, if hers is new it has a fill limit and big red message about over filing and a "drill hole" on the top fill plate. hence the "fill line", tkae it back to the dealer, vapor lock is just too much of a bucket-luck answer. get the carb tuned and the whole deal re-set, let them ride and you will feel better, i hope.you were`nt planning on fixing it anyway were you?
good luck,
wear those ear thingie`s

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:51 am

mojobuddy70cc wrote:,,below the neck? on my 50 i would think that is 1/2 a tank, if hers is new it has a fill limit and big red message about over filing and a "drill hole" on the top fill plate. hence the "fill line", tkae it back to the dealer, vapor lock is just too much of a bucket-luck answer. get the carb tuned and the whole deal re-set, let them ride and you will feel better, i hope.you were`nt planning on fixing it anyway were you?
good luck,
wear those ear thingie`s

There is no fill line telling you where to fill the gasoline too. Unless they recently added them to newer bikes.

Nearly every 4T scooter today uses the same emission system. Yamahas, hondas, etc, they experience vapor lock issues too.

It has nothing to do with tuning the carb either, this isnt a 50cc.

kendora · Post by **kendora** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:27 am

Hmmm, alright, thanks for the tips, guys.

I'll be sure to keep an eye out for overfilling but I don't know that I ever HAVE overfilled before. Usually there is a pretty substantial distance between the opening into the gas tank and the gas level. Also, when the engine DOES stall, it's happened regardless of how full the tank is. I could have half a tank of gas left, having no problems with the bike when it's full, when it happens to stall. I don't know if that makes any difference at all.

It is an '08, it was actually the test drive scooter from the dealer when I got it so it had about 300 miles on it already when I'd bought it. It doesn't have a hole in the gas cap or anything, but I will definitely look into getting one. It's still under warranty so hopefully that will make my life easier. Thanks a lot.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:46 am

I'd think it's gasoline splashing into the charcoal canister, or worse, a bad stator.

Take it to the dealer, use your warranty. I'm thinking more of the stator now. If it didnt happen until all of the sudden and more recently.

Modern Buddy

problems with engine cutting off

problems with engine cutting off

2-3 inches??

Re: 2-3 inches??