upgrading my engine?

SkooterKat · Post by **SkooterKat** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:02 am

i know there has been a lot of talk of boring out engines and making engine modifications, but i have a (what may be stupid to all you mechanics out there) question. can i actually swap out my engine for a bigger one? i currently have a 125, but would sorta like to be able to go on the freeway. i know that there is a 161kit, but is this enough to truly get up to highway speeds with slight head room for getting out of people's way? and why do people do this vs putting in a bigger engine (again, i don't really know anything about any of this, and when i say "i" i mean, can i have someone who knows what they are doing do this for me)? with better tires that are rated for higher speeds (like the Vee Rubbers that have been talked about) and something like a 200cc engine... whatdya think?

ps. in case anyone wonders, i LOVE my buddy and don't want to get a different/bigger bike, just wanna go faster:)

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:32 am

The only other engine that will go in without a ton of modifications is the 150. Buying and installing a PGO 150cc engine will be more time consuming and more expensive than installing the 161 kit. You'll have more top end pull, but you won't get too much more top end. On top of an an engine swap being more expensive and taking longer to do, you'll have less power than a 161 kitted 125 Buddy.

If you were to install a larger (non-PGO) engine, you'd pretty much loose the essence of the Buddy.

If you're that smitten with your Buddy and you need to go faster, you've got the perfect starting point with the 161 kit. It's probably the best bang for your buck performance mod.

If you want to go faster than that, you may want to consider looking at other models.

SkooterKat · Post by **SkooterKat** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:15 am

that's what i wanted to know. thanks for the info!

are there other models that people might suggest that would be slightly bigger engines, but not much bigger bike?

and i'm not truly sold on NEEDING to go faster, just looking into possibilities. and part of the reason i love my buddy so much is the fact that i can ride it with so much ease. i'm not very big, and have some trouble with bikes much bigger than say the vespa lx 150 (and even that, i have to have a shaved seat).

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:31 am

I know there are others who will argue against this, but I'd say even with the 161 kit and common modifications, the Buddy's not going to be consistently fast enough for So Cal freeway speeds. Aside from that, doing those kind of speeds on 10" wheels and stock tires on the freeway is very dicey. It's quite hard to maneuver.

For the most part, I wouldn't recommend riding on the freeway with any frequency on anything smaller than a stock 200cc scooter. My LX is kitted up to a 190 and has all sorts of mods so it'll do over 70 and can get up over 80 and it's really still not big or fast enough for frequent freeway riding.

Most of the newer 200s have seats from around 31" and up. Buddy is 29". The discontinued Vespa GT200 is 31.5", which is actually a little shorter than an LX. I know quite a few smallish women who ride this model (and GTS 250s for that matter) who seem to handle them just fine.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:05 am

In my opinion...

even if my Buddy could go 100mph, it will never be a suitable highway scooter for me. It's too light, the wheels are too small... When we rode the highways coming back from Amerivespa, I was blown all over the place and it really wasn't a relaxed kind of stable going 65-70 real mph.

I am glad I had the chance to experience this because now I know I don't want to invest in making my Buddy a highway speed machine. My Buddy is my ultimate, perfect urban/city ride, and I totally love it for that. But for the highway, I'll get the Genuine Cruiser that is upcoming, or a 250cc or 300cc Vespa or other scooter, or a MC, or something else that is more highway appropriate.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:15 am

Skootz Kabootz wrote:But for the highway, I'll get the Genuine Cruiser that is upcoming, or a 250cc or 300cc Vespa or other scooter, or a MC, or something else that is more highway appropriate.

I'm thinking something like this…

(2010 Moto Guzzi V7 Clubman Racer)

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:07 am

I'll second that. a plastic paneled scoot on 10" wheels that weighs 225lbs shouldn't be on the freeway at any speed here in breakneck, grooved pavement So Cal. And I always like to point out that even Genuine in the FAQ compares taking a 150cc buddy on the freeway doing 65mph to driving your car at over 300mph. I interpret that as "either way, if you crash you and your vehicle will be obliterated".

The 161cc doesn't only give you more top end, it gives you more Horsepower (with the 150 head on it, anyways). This translated into more power up inclines and better stability on my scooter. And you don't have to add the prima pipe. Kevin at MS was saying they'd like to slap one of the stock 150 pipes on my scoot and see if performance changes. If my prima welds fail I will do that. I like the sound and shine for now but I won't replace it with the same should it fail.

I feel you. I wish I could go on the freeway. I was so jealous watching derrick ride all the way to Tahoe!

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:33 am

ericalm wrote: I'm thinking something like this…

(2010 Moto Guzzi V7 Clubman Racer)

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice....

What a sweet modern café look.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:43 pm

Just for more info. My Buddy is heavily modified. I ride it on the highways and interstates regularly. I wouldn't recommend it for anyone who isn't just this side of crazy. Can it go fast enough? Absolutely. I even pass other traffic and have ventured into the fast lane for top speed runs(88MPH!).

It gets pushed around a LOT by other traffic. Not physically, by the wind and pressure changes of other cars. Now, I don't have any problem staying in my lane but I use my WHOLE lane.

Again, its possible. But not for the faint of heart.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:01 pm

Kaos wrote:Just for more info. My Buddy is heavily modified. I ride it on the highways and interstates regularly. I wouldn't recommend it for anyone who isn't just this side of crazy.

Ummm...which side is "this" side?

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:11 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:
Kaos wrote:Just for more info. My Buddy is heavily modified. I ride it on the highways and interstates regularly. I wouldn't recommend it for anyone who isn't just this side of crazy.

Ummm...which side is "this" side?

I'm still trying to figure that one out

My wife suspects its neither "JUST this side" nor is is the non-crazy side.... It really is a blast to shoot past groups of larger bikes cruising the highway on something that sounds like a demon posessed weedwhacker

SkooterKat · Post by **SkooterKat** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:28 pm

haha! "this side of crazy". just to clarify, even if i did make modifications to my scoot, i wouldn't plan on riding the freeway on any consistent basis (nothing like all the way to taho). but there are a couple spots about a mile or so between exits that could really cut down on my commute. i've gotten my buddy going pretty fast as is, but doubt it's the smartest given i'm still on stock tires and all. the first thing i plan on doing is getting better tires (think this will be my christmas gift to myself); the only thing that's kept me from it thus far is that i'm at nearly 9k miles on my original tires, and the tread is still going strong (i'm light, check my pressure often, and only ride surface streets).

thanks again for info, i really do want to learn more about the ins and outs of my scoot rather than just relying on taking it to the shop for everything.

and i have had more than one person try to convince me that a vespa 250 would be a good bike for me, i just worry i'd get it and not be able to handle it (and it's hard to really test-ride one and get a real feel for it since i'd have to modify the seat and all). one of my pet peeves is people riding machines that are just too much for them.

anyone else 5' and under who rides a bigger bike, what's your experience been?

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:13 pm

"Demon possessed weedwhacker."

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:33 pm

SkooterKat wrote:and i have had more than one person try to convince me that a vespa 250 would be a good bike for me, i just worry i'd get it and not be able to handle it (and it's hard to really test-ride one and get a real feel for it since i'd have to modify the seat and all). one of my pet peeves is people riding machines that are just too much for them.

anyone else 5' and under who rides a bigger bike, what's your experience been?

We have a couple of GTS riders here, but this would be a good Q for ModernVespa. Not that I'm sending you off somewhere else.

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:55 pm

Cheshire wrote:"Demon possessed weedwhacker."

Someone needs to steal that and use it for their sig. Friggin awsome.

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:19 am

Kaos wrote: ... sounds like a demon posessed weedwhacker

I can attest to this. I wouldn't have even noticed Kaos the time I spotted him in the wild it if weren't for the "what the heck is that?" noise coming up from behind me. A demon possessed weedwhacker describes it pretty well.

As for riding on freeways, though I have no doubt that Kaos would be crazy enough to try it, I have to say that there's no comparision between Portland freeways and SoCal (or NoCal for that matter). As a California transplant, I just laugh when I hear people here complaining about traffic. This aint nothin' compared to California (and I like it that way!).

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:38 am

pdxrita wrote: I can attest to this. I wouldn't have even noticed Kaos the time I spotted him in the wild it if weren't for the "what the heck is that?" noise coming up from behind me. A demon possessed weedwhacker describes it pretty well.

As for riding on freeways, though I have no doubt that Kaos would be crazy enough to try it, I have to say that there's no comparision between Portland freeways and SoCal (or NoCal for that matter). As a California transplant, I just laugh when I hear people here complaining about traffic. This aint nothin' compared to California (and I like it that way!).

This is actually one of the most relevant statements I've seen when people bring up higher top speeds. I've gotten my Blur to do some pretty high speeds, much faster than the posted speed limits around here (a few mph shy of Kaos' 88 mph, mind you). The thing is, people around Richmond, VA have lost the whole concept of courtesy. Getting on the highway is a scary proposition no matter what vehicle I'm driving, which includes both my 4 wheel vehicles. And that's just the other drivers... if I had a good way to record video while bike mounted, I'd post a vid of rush hour on the freeway (from my big bike of course) to give folks an idea of just how friggin scary it is out here. I've no idea how it is out in SoCal, but I can't help but assume that they have better roads than our post apocalyptic looking, lunar surface battlezone looking mess.