My continuing love hate relationship with Prima pipes.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:48 pm

So I walked outside this moring to get on my bike, and happened to glance down at my pipe. What did I see? ANOTHER broken bracket weld.

This is the 3rd pipe this has happened to. I'm curious now if its something inherent to my bike, and pushing the pipe beyond what it was designed for, or are they just poorly welded?

*SIGH*

We'll see if I replace this one for a 4th(hopefully they'll still give me one under warranty) or if I repair this one, or start researching other brands of aftermarket pipe.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:35 pm

Might as well start looking into purchasing a pipe that will fit the bubu125 from taiwan. There was a old user that was banned named smellybumlove and he lives in taiwan. He was trying to buy and resell parts for the buddy out of taiwan, but he seemed sketchy. Maybe you can get a few clues on what pipes to buy if you can find his old threads. He posted images and model names to 2-3 different pipes that would fit the buddy.

Emission wise they're illegal in taiwan, but they're designed to look OEM so police cant tell the difference between stock and performance. Still legal to purchase, illegal to use, but here in the USA emissions shouldnt be a issue.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:42 pm

jfrost2 wrote:Might as well start looking into purchasing a pipe that will fit the bubu125 from taiwan. There was a old user that was banned named smellybumlove and he lives in taiwan. He was trying to buy and resell parts for the buddy out of taiwan, but he seemed sketchy. Maybe you can get a few clues on what pipes to buy if you can find his old threads. He posted images and model names to 2-3 different pipes that would fit the buddy.

Emission wise they're illegal in taiwan, but they're designed to look OEM so police cant tell the difference between stock and performance. Still legal to purchase, illegal to use, but here in the USA emissions shouldnt be a issue.

Yeah, I've seen his pipes. I've also looked at other GY6 pipes, and several of them should fit as well. It just irks me, as this is my 3rd Prima, and 5th pipe over all. I'm getting tired of swapping them.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:44 pm

It's because of your heated grips.

just kidding.

You're not by chance running lean are you? I know that Prima I had liked to run hot and that was with it slightly rich. Also, the gaskets that came with the one I had was total crap. They let air leaks in which caused it to backfire and over heat. I'm guessing that's probably a bad thing.

If they don't replace it, go get one of those cheap stainless steel muffler brackets for the coffee can mufflers that people put on older import cars and cut it down and drill it out so that it acts as a compression strap (you've got two mounting points that are in line vertically). The SS strap brackets are about 1.5"-2" wide which will cover the place where the original brackets are welded on. Then cut the badly welded mounting tabs off the pipe you have, file it smooth and use the shiny compression strap to mount your pipe and ride off into the sunset. Maybe put a little something on the filed off parts to protect it from moisture so it doesn't rot while covered by the strap mount.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:49 pm

Lostmycage wrote: You're not by chance running lean are you? I know that Prima I had liked to run hot and that was with it slightly rich. Also, the gaskets that came with the one I had was total crap. They let air leaks in which caused it to backfire and over heat. I'm guessing that's probably a bad thing.

No, I'm actually running slightly rich right now. I over compensated for the cold weather with the idle mixture screw.

I'm thinking its a combo of the poor welds to begin with, and the crappy gasket. I've had problems with it leaking before.

I'm also mildly sure its not helping the pipe to endure the increased vibrations of my wilder than average starts and top speeds.

djelliott · Post by **djelliott** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:28 pm

Do you know someone that can just properly weld for you?

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:29 pm

djelliott wrote:Do you know someone that can just properly weld for you?

Yeah, I do. My father runs a local body shop, and some of his body men have done welding work for me on my hotrods. This should be a piece of cake compared to welding in a front subframe

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:26 pm

you may be on to something here:

"...and pushing the pipe beyond what it was designed for..."

by all accounts you're buddy runs faster than anyone else and you do that speed with regularity (or am I assuming too much)?

Perhaps with that speed, the heat and vibration is just too dang much for these pipes. While SOME pipe welds have failed, what are the odds all of yours are those bad pipes? I'm not being a smart ass, I really don't know the odds. I have 6k miles on this pipe with no weld issues but even kitted my scoot can barely do 75mph down a hill with the wind at my back. Maybe for ONCE my fat ass is doing me a favor

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:39 pm

jijifer wrote:you may be on to something here:

"...and pushing the pipe beyond what it was designed for..."

by all accounts you're buddy runs faster than anyone else and you do that speed with regularity (or am I assuming too much)?

Perhaps with that speed, the heat and vibration is just too dang much for these pipes. While SOME pipe welds have failed, what are the odds all of yours are those bad pipes? I'm not being a smart ass, I really don't know the odds. I have 6k miles on this pipe with no weld issues but even kitted my scoot can barely do 75mph down a hill with the wind at my back. Maybe for ONCE my fat ass is doing me a favor

Yeah, unfortunately thats very likely contributing to the issue, because statistically its pretty unlikely that I'd loose 3 pipes in a row.

BeachBuzz · Post by **BeachBuzz** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:09 pm

jijifer wrote: "...and pushing the pipe beyond what it was designed for..."

kind of a Catch-22 eh?

Isn't the pipe's primary purpose to allow the engine to run faster/harder/higher performance??

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:47 am

BeachBuzz wrote:
jijifer wrote: "...and pushing the pipe beyond what it was designed for..."
kind of a Catch-22 eh?

Isn't the pipe's primary purpose to allow the engine to run faster/harder/higher performance??

well the speedo only goes to 80 and so very few of us ever bury the needle and when we do, we're likely only going 75mph in GPS speed - Kaos can GPS 80+ and does. The prima pipe MIGHT get you a few extra MPH but an additional 15-20 is pretty dang optimistic of any single modification save for a much bigger engine

Kitting up to a 161 with a 150 head wasn't even a 20mph mod!

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:29 am

jijifer wrote:
BeachBuzz wrote:
jijifer wrote: "...and pushing the pipe beyond what it was designed for..."
kind of a Catch-22 eh?

Isn't the pipe's primary purpose to allow the engine to run faster/harder/higher performance??
well the speedo only goes to 80 and so very few of us ever bury the needle and when we do, we're likely only going 75mph in GPS speed - Kaos can GPS 80+ and does. The prima pipe MIGHT get you a few extra MPH but an additional 15-20 is pretty dang optimistic of any single modification save for a much bigger engine Kitting up to a 161 with a 150 head wasn't even a 20mph mod!

Yeah, but the pipe is cumulative, I'd loose a lot of top end if I went back to a stock pipe. Not that I plan to

iwabj · Post by **iwabj** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:32 am

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:36 am

iwabj wrote:Please excuse me if this is perceived as a dumb questions. . . Are you using the spacers that supposedly came with the pipe?

The bracket spacers? Yes, the pipe won't install without them.

iwabj · Post by **iwabj** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:44 am

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:46 am

iwabj wrote:
Kaos wrote:
iwabj wrote:Please excuse me if this is perceived as a dumb questions. . . Are you using the spacers that supposedly came with the pipe?
The bracket spacers? Yes, the pipe won't install without them.
Don't be so sure it wouldn't.

The last time this conversation came up I knew I had to be missing some parts. If you remember the other thread, I think I used the expression 'torqued' or maybe 'tweaked'. . . It drove me crazy, I was sure that I was short changed some crucial elements. Sure enough, I had an epiphany when I found the "extra parts" unclaimed on one of their desks one day.

Wow, learn something new everyday! I'm actually quite impressed that you got it to install at all without the spacers.

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:48 am

It pretty violent just moments before breaking the sound barrier. j/k Maybe its time for a bit of r&d. I have looked at the equations to build pipes. yikes there is a lot to it. At 125 to 200cc there are tons of pit bike or atv pipes to hack up. I know, money, time and tools. But you treading on new ground. What you have done and will do is new. "You have the power, we can rebuild it."

iwabj · Post by **iwabj** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:48 am

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:52 am

bigbropgo wrote:It pretty violent just moments before breaking the sound barrier. j/k Maybe its time for a bit of r&d. I have looked at the equations to build pipes. yikes there is a lot to it. At 125 to 200cc there are tons of pit bike or atv pipes to hack up. I know, money, time and tools. But you treading on new ground. What you have done and will do is new. "You have the power, we can rebuild it."

I actually had a Yoshimura pitbike pipe on my Buddy before the Prima pipe. Unfortunately my header was a cheap china pipe from eBay. It didn't work so well. I'm tempted to try it again though.

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:13 am

Oh man I do remember that. Work or not the yoshi pipes are good lookin.