Is this legit and/or stupid?

juanlargo · Post by **juanlargo** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:24 pm

Hi everyone,

Newly-christened board member here, but a long-time lurker

I have a question about buying an amazing-looking scooter off Craigslist, and wanted to ask for some veteran takes on the decision.

I've enjoyed riding scooters since I was in high school, and have a decent amount of experience on a handful of models, but I've never fully owned one. After touring some cities on the west coast via scooter, and having sold my car since moving to DC, I've been bitten hard by the bug and am currently on the lookout for a new ride.

A friend of mine lent me a Buddy for the weekend not too long ago and I came back convinced it was exactly what I'd been waiting for. While doing a bit more research, I came across this posting on Craigslist:

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/ ... 71873.html

::drool:::

Instant love on this thing. The problem is, not only have I never ridden a vintage Vespa, I'm really not experienced enough to tell if this is a) a good deal, and b) a good idea for me in general. I know I'd definitely be excited to learn how to ride and maintain a bike like this.

Could I ask you guys for some seasoned opinions on the matter? Is this a good idea, or do you think I should be looking in a different direction?

Thanks! Love the forums here, and a pleasure to make your acquaintances

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:42 pm

Welcome to modern buddy! When I first got into scooters I was head over heels for vintage vespas and lambrettas, but I went with a buddy for reliablility, it's a solid quality built bike.

I think it's a cheapo crap restoration probably from asia. Shiny new paint and chrome, but bondo and rust under neath.

No way would a legit vintage vespa be cheaper than a modern scooter, they go for 4,000-5,000 average when fully restored.

I'd say stick to the buddy or any other automatic bike from big names like sym, kymco, honda, etc.

Older scooters will involve more tinkering and work, without any mechanical experience you can mess something up or overwhelm yourself.

My advice is to get yourself a modern bike and maybe later in the future move to a old retro scooter if you still desire. If the vintage bug has bit you and you refuse to go modern, you could look into Genuine Stella, they're 150cc and have manual transmission. Genuine just released the new 4 stroke version which gets a average of 140MPG! (dealer confirmed) The old 2 stroke model is a 100% Vespa PX150 clone from the 70-80's but built in our modern day. Stellas tend to be reliable but still require a little more tinkering than the buddy. A stella would be good experience on how to shift gears on older scooters and what type of maintenance they would require.

Though the technology is very similar for a vespa from the 60's, a stella would have a 2 year warranty too, if anything went wrong you would get it fixed for free where as a old scooter has no warranty and you just gotta bet and hope it'll not break down somewhere.

The deal may truly be legit, but from research and experience seeing restorations done at dealers and shops, I've never seen one go for less than $3,500 fully restored.

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:55 pm

Looking at the gauges, those are km, not miles. Same with speed.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:02 am

I can confirm this is an asian restore and is junk. Dont buy it.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:08 am

DO NOT BUY THAT SCOOTER!

That has all the signs of a Vietnam deathtrap.

Yellow stand boots
gaudy chrome on legshield
two tone paint
P style floor mat

for more on vietbodge scooters look here.
http://www.rovers-usa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1938

for a question like this I would suggest the not so modern forum of Modern Vespa

http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/forum19

lmyers · Post by **lmyers** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:08 am

Those yellow boots say bodge.

Silver Streak · Post by **Silver Streak** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:08 am

Yep... Viet bodge written all over it.

The two-tone paint job and yellow stand boots are a dead giveaway. The gaskets in the engine "rebuild" are likely flattened beer cans, and the chassis is likely badly welded up from several wrecks.

juanlargo · Post by **juanlargo** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:23 am

You guys rule. Thanks for all the advice, and the knock-off spot.

BuddyRaton, totally appreciate the tip... I'm sure the MV folks are great too—just that I've been a reader of this forum, and well, I feel like I know the people here a bit better (in about as non-creepy of a way you guys could ever take that).

Thanks for the heads-up guys, and thanks jfrost2—that response was exactly the kind of thing I needed to hear.

I'll surely pass along some updates once I settle down with a new ride

cheez37 · Post by **cheez37** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:49 am

BuddyRaton wrote:DO NOT BUY THAT SCOOTER!

That has all the signs of a Vietnam deathtrap.

Yellow stand boots
gaudy chrome on legshield
two tone paint
P style floor mat

for more on vietbodge scooters look here.
http://www.rovers-usa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1938

for a question like this I would suggest the not so modern forum of Modern Vespa

http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/forum19

Its unfortunate that these "restorations" give the Vietnamese a bad name. I have been there and seen what those guys can do to keep the hundreds if thousands of scooters in Saigon running. There's not enough spare parts for them all, so they improvise and make them work. They can be pretty ingenious when necessary.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:06 am

BuddyRaton wrote:DO NOT BUY THAT SCOOTER!

That has all the signs of a Vietnam deathtrap.

Yellow stand boots
gaudy chrome on legshield
two tone paint
P style floor mat

for more on vietbodge scooters look here.
http://www.rovers-usa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1938

for a question like this I would suggest the not so modern forum of Modern Vespa

http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/forum19

You have good eyes too then! Those were the exact signs I noticed, but besides that I emaled the seller and got a response. It's from Vietnam, he "restored" it himself before moving to the USA. A believable case....

Dont buy it.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:13 am

I know, for a fact, that there are some good restorations and vintage scoots in Vietnam.

Unfortunately, the ones that get exported for resale over here are almost all bodges.

cheez37 wrote:There's not enough spare parts for them all, so they improvise and make them work. They can be pretty ingenious when necessary.

That improvisation is part of the problem. Parts are available for almost all vintage Vespa models; they're just not cheap. So while the ingenuity is admirable, much of what we get here isn't up to the standards and expectations of most American buyers. They paint them nice, chrome them out and charge a few grand for them. But underneath that exterior, there are bad welds, bondo, and mechanical workarounds. That's fine if you're in Vietnam and riding it and willing to re-weld, re-Bondo and come up with more workarounds.

Unfortunately, unscrupulous sellers (like this one) are bilking buyers in the U.S. who think they're getting an expert restoration with a rebuilt engine and various upgrades. Then when the scoots inevitably break, mechanics pull them apart and realize the scoot's held together with glue, Coke cans and twist ties. Most of the better mechanics I know refuse to work on them because they just keep breaking and it's not worth the hassle.

I do know someone who has two Vietnamese VBBs that aren't complete junk. He went there, bought them himself, and has rebuilt both of them himself. Even then, one breaks down pretty frequently.

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:30 am

For posterity's sake the other Viet Bodge giveaway I haven't seen others mention is the 10" wheel kickstand on a 8" wheel scoot. That is what makes the scoot look like it is taking off with the front wheel so high.

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:32 am

ericalm wrote: That improvisation is part of the problem. Parts are available for almost all vintage Vespa models; they're just not cheap. So while the ingenuity is admirable, much of what we get here isn't up to the standards and expectations of most American buyers. They paint them nice, chrome them out and charge a few grand for them. But underneath that exterior, there are bad welds, bondo, and mechanical workarounds. That's fine if you're in Vietnam and riding it and willing to re-weld, re-Bondo and come up with more workarounds.

Yeah. If I was buying this for $500, I'd be ok with the hackjob (well probably not, but MORE ok). The issue is that these are sold with prices closer to a full resto bike rather than the hackjob crap that these are.

cheez37 · Post by **cheez37** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:12 am

Anachronism wrote:
ericalm wrote: That improvisation is part of the problem. Parts are available for almost all vintage Vespa models; they're just not cheap. So while the ingenuity is admirable, much of what we get here isn't up to the standards and expectations of most American buyers. They paint them nice, chrome them out and charge a few grand for them. But underneath that exterior, there are bad welds, bondo, and mechanical workarounds. That's fine if you're in Vietnam and riding it and willing to re-weld, re-Bondo and come up with more workarounds.
Yeah. If I was buying this for $500, I'd be ok with the hackjob (well probably not, but MORE ok). The issue is that these are sold with prices closer to a full resto bike rather than the hackjob crap that these are.

Improvisation is not a problem if you know that's what you are getting and you only want it to run (which is what most people in Vietnam are looking for). Definitely not ok for a restoration.

I'm not too sure of the availability of vintage Vespa parts in VN. There are some Vespas (vintage and modern), but they are definitely in the minority. There are many, many, many more Japanese scooters.

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:18 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:
for more on vietbodge scooters look here.
http://www.rovers-usa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1938

Gotta say, in regards to this link - man, that avatar is NSFW. It's too bad, because the info seems good. I kept thinking it would scroll of the page, but then, there it was again! I guess he assumes all of his readers will be male, or perhaps he doesn't care. Pausing now while everyone rushes over to look.....

chloefpuff · Post by **chloefpuff** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:26 pm

I like the word "bodge".

JSharpPhoto · Post by **JSharpPhoto** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:31 pm

This is a great resource as a "which Vespa to buy", and also has a ton of things to look for

http://scooterlounge.com/Vespa/Asian/Asian.shtml

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:23 am

pdxrita wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:
for more on vietbodge scooters look here.
http://www.rovers-usa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1938
Gotta say, in regards to this link - man, that avatar is NSFW. It's too bad, because the info seems good. I kept thinking it would scroll of the page, but then, there it was again! I guess he assumes all of his readers will be male, or perhaps he doesn't care. Pausing now while everyone rushes over to look.....

Well, I won't even go into the vaguely racist title of that thread…

Rover Eric is actually an okay guy as far as I know; he's a Moderator on MV. He means well and is always helpful when it comes to these things.