Front brake adjust

bchan · Post by **bchan** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:04 pm

I was riding my stella home last night and I noticed that the front brake lever feels like its got no play, almost like the pads are already touching the disc. I can squeeze it and its tight from the start. I tried spinning the wheel and its not really free, there are spots in its rotation where it is definitely rubbing something. So is there an easy way to back off the brakes just a little to allow more room between the pads and the disc? Or is there another fix that I should do? Thanks!

JoshWED · Post by **JoshWED** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:31 pm

have you inspected the disc? and the brake cylinder assembly?

if those things are cool, <strike>just use the adjustment screw on the end of the cable</strike>.

but the brakes should engage as soon as you begin to pull the lever.

bchan · Post by **bchan** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:07 pm

As far as inspecting goes, on the disc am I looking to make sure its true? And I'm new to this tinkering thing so what would I be looking for in the brake cylinder assembly?

And where will I find the adjustment screw? Is it near the lever or the engine? Sorry for all the nooby questions! I really appreciate your help!

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:25 pm

The Stella front brake has a cable adjuster? I thought it was just hydraulic (but hey, I don't have a Stella....)

JoshWED · Post by **JoshWED** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:24 pm

You should definitely download the service manual from iheartstella:

http://iheartstella.com/genuine-stella- ... s-manuals/

Page 55 should help you out.

JoshWED · Post by **JoshWED** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:27 pm

PeteH wrote:The Stella front brake has a cable adjuster? I thought it was just hydraulic (but hey, I don't have a Stella....)

Hydraulic..yup...i had a brain fart.

My knowledge of the hydraulic ends at check to see the level of the brake fluid.

bchan · Post by **bchan** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:08 am

Thanks for those links, I think I'll do some digging around this weekend. There is definitely something wrong with it though. It's really squishy and hard to pull before the brake lights come on. If the front brake is 70 percent of my braking power then I must be getting only 30 percent from mine, it's not doing much for me. When the brake lights do register I finally get some stopping power but I'm usually stopped before I get there with the slow squishy action. Anyhow thanks guys, I'll see what I can find.

dchernikoff · Post by **dchernikoff** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:50 pm

In my (non-Stella) experience, hydraulic brakes are self-adjusting.

If your brakes are "squishy" then it sounds like you have air in the brake line and need to get it flushed. That's a simple and cheap operation. If they are hard to squeeze (lots of resistance) and/or they have a lot of motion, then it sounds like a bigger problem, but I'd start by having the brake lines flushed. Brake fluid is hydroscopic (absorbs water), and when it does then it gets "sticky" so that may just be your problem. Flush it!

-Dan

bchan · Post by **bchan** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:49 pm

I've been doing some asking around and I wonder if some water got into the system somewhere, we did have a couple of pretty rainy days and I was unable to cover my scooter. Could that could be the problem?

Halloweenie · Post by **Halloweenie** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:19 pm

Mine survived 80mph wind, rain, and 1" hail stones shelter free with no problem. Unless the filler cap is loose it is probably not a problem. I'd bleed the line just to be sure that there is no air in their.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:38 pm

We have all the Stella (2T) docs here, too, as well as the 4T manual!

Anyone know whose blog iheartstella is? Wonder if they want to sell it to me…?

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:12 am

Squishy hydraulic brakes could also mean air in the line, and in need of bleeding, which is an even easier process than flushing.

Hydraulic braking systems are well sealed, so if they worked well before, but just started feeling 'wrong', and the pads are still OK, something is very wrong. Check the whole system out.

bchan · Post by **bchan** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:23 am

Awesome, so I'll try to bleed em, if that doesn't work, I'll flush em, and if that doesn't work, back to the dealer I suppose. I sure hope one of those works because its a long ride to the dealers location

One question on the bleeding, do I need the tube as it says in the service manual on pg. 60 or can I do without? You guys never fail with your profound knowledge, thanks a million!

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:26 am

Yes, and the tube should be immersed in a jar with brake fluid in the bottom before you start. Reason is, if you let up on the brake with just an open bleed valve, air will get sucked in. It's not like bleeding a hot water heat radiator, where there is continuous system pressure. Hook up the tube, submerge the other end, open the reservoir, and keep pumping and adding fluid up top until no air comes out in the tube. Then close the bleed valve and reservoir and clean up.

Folks here have mentioned a vacuum pump, but I have never used one of those.

bchan · Post by **bchan** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:28 am

where would one acquire the said tube?

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:38 pm

I don't know the diameter (truthfully, I haven't done this job since my '75 Honda CB550F), but you just need some clear plastic tubing (think aquarium air line) that will fit snugly on the end of the bleed valve. I haven't seen the Stella's valve, but they're all pretty much the same. I would think any hardware store has thin tubing that will fit nicely. It just needs to be clear so you can see if there are any air gaps coming out.

Since the handheld vacuum pump kits are widely available, perhaps someone will also chime in with instructions for these. I hear they make the job pretty easy, too, especially if you want to completely purge the system.

dchernikoff · Post by **dchernikoff** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:21 pm

If you're gonna bleed it yourself, one thing I learned the hard way... Don't crank down on the brake valve too hard when you're done and closing it. I did that once, and the next time I went to change the brake fluid I couldn't get the valve open -- ended up rounding the hex-nut head and having to replace the entire valve.

My thinking was "this is for my brake system, I better make sure it doesn't leak out of the valve and I can't stop!" so I cranked it down as tight as I could get it. Mistake! The valves are reliable and won't leak -- just get it snug and maybe a touch more...

-Dan

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:47 pm

Assuming they bleed like every other brake system I've bled does, you don't even need the tube, you just need to be careful that you don't release the brake lever until the bleeder screw it closed, and that you don't run out of fluid in the reservoir before the fluid runs clear.

That said, if you are doing this yourself, it would be best to have a flexible tube just big enough to slip snugly over the end of the bleeder nut and stuck into a container of brake fluid (this fluid will become corrupted and must be safely disposed of). This will allow you some leeway when loosening the bleeder screw/pulling on the lever/holding the lever/snugging the bleeder screw/repeat process.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:42 pm

Yup, especially if you're doing the job yourself. Coordinating the brake lever, reservoir, and bleed valve is a little tricky without the tube as a backup. Two people makes it a little easier.

Let us know how it goes.

bchan · Post by **bchan** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:24 pm

I've started trying bleed my brakes but I can't find good access to the valve, do I need to remove the tire to do so? I can't even get a 1/4 turn on the bolt with the wheel on. I thought maybe I could remove the caliper assembly but the vertical cylinder next to the shock spring is in the way. Is there a step I'm missing in all of this? Thanks

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:52 am

I looked at a Stella (ok, a 4T) today. Isn't the bleed valve right on the top of the brake assembly, with a rubber protective cap? It looks uber easy to access.

Brake line goes in near the bottom, bleed valve on top??

bchan · Post by **bchan** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:21 am

Yeah, I found the bleed valve, but I had such a hard time getting any kind of good turn in there that I took the wheel off. Between the wheel and the cylinder next to the spring I could get minimal turning. Since it was so easy to take the wheel off, I think I'll just do it that way. Sadly I ran out of time before I could do the actual bleed, it must wait till next weekend. I did mount my rear rack though, so at least I got something done.

I found a website that seems pretty helpful, its http://www.scooterhelp.com/genmaintain/brake.bleed.html

Lovelandstella · Post by **Lovelandstella** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:53 pm

ericalm wrote:...Anyone know whose blog iheartstella is? Wonder if they want to sell it to me…?

I like that website - that was the 1st place I found the manuals!
Anyway. Per the bottom of that website:
I Heart Stella and all content © 1996–2011
by Justin Hileman unless noted.
with the link: http://justinhileman.com/

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:44 pm

Lovelandstella wrote:
ericalm wrote:...Anyone know whose blog iheartstella is? Wonder if they want to sell it to me…?
I like that website - that was the 1st place I found the manuals!
Anyway. Per the bottom of that website:
I Heart Stella and all content © 1996–2011
by Justin Hileman unless noted.
with the link: http://justinhileman.com/

Found it later! Then, poking around, for some reason I realized that he probably wouldn't want to give it up. I can't recall why now, as my attention darted to the next thing…

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:58 pm

Two+ year old posts, registration that expires in June, who knows, maybe he'll sell it off as long as you continue to hos the archived posts or something.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:25 pm

Bchan - OK, some Stellas have that cylindrical dingus aft of the spring, and some don't - go to Genuine's Stella 2T page and mouse-over the green and the light blue color-swatches to switch photos, and you'll see what I mean. The green and light blue don't have that cylinder, and the red, yellow, and black scoots do.

I don't know what it is, but I can see from your photo that you've got one. The 4T I saw in the showroom Saturday did not have this doodad, and the bleed valve was very accessible.

Somebody tell me what it is!

dchernikoff · Post by **dchernikoff** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:35 pm

That cylindrical metal tube looks like the gas compression chamber for the shock absorber. That's why some have it and some don't -- having an external compression chamber is supposed to be better (at least, that's what you get on the expensive after-market shocks like BiTubo) but most shocks just have it in-line...

-Dan

bchan · Post by **bchan** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:57 pm

So I'm guessing That I shouldn't remove it to get the calipers off? If that's the case how would I get the calipers off since it covers the top bolt?

Silver Streak · Post by **Silver Streak** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:46 pm

Why would you want to take the caliper off to bleed the brakes?

If you ever do need to remove the caliper, you may have to remove the whole shock assembly first... or at least disconnect the bottom end of the shock assembly.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:56 pm

Do NOT remove the caliper to bleed the brakes. You may pop the piston(s) right out of the caliper and end up in a much bigger mess than you're in now.

bchan · Post by **bchan** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:06 pm

Yeah, I should have made that more clear, in inspecting the front end I was just curious how I would get the calipers off, unrelated to bleeding. For future reference in changing brake pads, and general inspection purposes and just because I like to know stuff. Good info though, thanks

bchan · Post by **bchan** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:44 am

well I did some digging around at stellaspeed and found this thread:

http://forums.stellaspeed.com/viewtopic ... suck+bleed

I just gave the crazy sounding "suck" method a try and I think it did it for me. I got some clear 1/4 inch tubing from Lowes, hooked it up, loosened the valve and sucked away. I saw tons of bubble coming out, some I'm sure were due to an imperfect seal around the nipple, but the majority of them were from the system. I finished it up, tightened it and gave the brakes a squeeze, and I can happily say they are better when I started, which for me is a good step in the right direction. I think I might need to check out the lever as well but I am happy with the results.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:17 am

Remember to top up your reservoir.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:49 am

Yep, I was at the dealer last night, and just to make sure I wasn't hallucinating, I looked closely. Out of five Stellas (two 2Ts and three 4Ts), none of them had that extra cylinder, and the bleed valve was easily accessed. Go figure.

bchan · Post by **bchan** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:27 pm

Yeah, I'm really curious to know how I would access the calipers if I ever needed to?

lmyers · Post by **lmyers** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:41 pm

I bought the Haynes manual and if you do your own work, it's invaluable.