How do you keep your cool?

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:30 am

Syd wrote:Sometimes, I give a short beep, and wave excitedly, like I know them. I'll even tilt my head a bit too, just to emphasize the fun. I don't do it for them, but if you make yourself smile sometimes you might even believe it. I've even gotten an apologetic wave back, rarely.

Other times I just give 'em the finger.

=) I'll have to give this one a try...

as for how I vent;
-middle finger
-cussing through my helmet
-pull up to them at lights and stare
-put my arms up like 'what in the world are you doing'
-put my hand to my ear as if i'm talking on the phone(if they are talking on phone)

different factors determine which i do, it's not good to provoke the cagers, but in the moment you can easily forget that.

an old couple in the lane next to me started slowly moving into my lane, I look over and see the driver and passenger looking dead right not paying attention. I accel past them as they veer into my lane, then i turn around and put my arm out questioning what they were doing.. then i flick them off and speed off, they catch up to me at the light and the old man in the passenger seat just stares at me through the whole light, with a blank face, as if I did something wrong...

Uncle Groucho · Post by **Uncle Groucho** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:32 pm

This is weird for Atlanta but in the nearly four weeks of scooting nearly every day I've only encountered two @sshats, one immediately after another about a week ago.

Some bouchedag on his Crackberry in an SUV crossing a double yellow line to go around me, a good 20-30 miles over the speedlimit. And this is near a school too. I vented by suggesting with some gesticulation that he was an @sshat.

A minute later a lady in an Accord does the same, but at least this time she waited for a dotted passing line. Sure she got the idea from the first guy; "Oh no! I'm stuck behind a scooter?! At this time of day?!"

What made me the angriest is that they were going way too fast and may one day kill someone. And they'll swear it was the other person's fault.

I'm trying to be the zen on the road and stay at the speed limit. I'm on a 50 though, so I can't really hit high speeds unless I'm going downhill. So far most drivers have been respectful. Maybe scooters are still an anomoly. I stick to roads where I don't have to go faster than 40 unless it's necessary; my commute doesn't require heavy rush hour traffic.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:44 pm

ericalm wrote:
One of the dumbest things I (still) do is when some jackass cuts me off just to save himself a few seconds or, in my mind, to get around "the scooter." I set out to prove that he will gain nothing from cutting me off and I will get where he's going just as fast SO THERE. This usually involves me cutting off other people.

Then there's this: The guy who's in a hurry but not getting anywhere fast because of all the damn traffic. So he cuts me off. Then keeps switching lanes all over to gain a 6-foot "advantage." So I get in front of them and then slow down. I try to trap them behind me and a slow-moving car in another lane. Do not follow my example here. That guy will try to swerve around and take me out.

^^^^ YEAH, I have to fess up. I do that.But I"m usually on the motorcycle on the way to work and I try to do it TOTALLY smooth so it looks like I"m oblivious to the car and they just keep "losing"...yeah, not smart, but when I pull it off it feels sooooooo good.

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:16 pm

if cagers wanted to drive fast,recklessly, and skip traffic, they should buy a motorcycle and endanger their own lives instead of other peoples' lives

i'm sick and tired of oblivious people who don't care of other motorists because they are well protected in their car/truck

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:14 pm

slusher5 wrote:if cagers wanted to drive fast,recklessly, and skip traffic, they should buy a motorcycle and endanger their own lives instead of other peoples' lives

Motorcyclists (and scooterists!) who ride like that are endangering others' lives as well.

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:15 am

Coffeejunkie wrote:Atlanta drivers are amazingly clueless to what's going on around them. I have taken the Zen Buddha Bear approach, and just accepted the fact that people will unknowingly try to kill me almost everyday.

That they are, that they are.

The only time I lose my cool now is when I someone at a stop sign cuts me off after staring at me for good while. Even then I just give them a good long honk. It isn't so much about me being made. I just want everyone to look at this person and for that person to reflect on their actions. This may or may not (probably not) play out how I picture it but in my mind it is like making them wear a dunce cap. If nothing else that makes me feel happy.

goddessofmath · Post by **goddessofmath** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:06 am

I try to not lose my cool, but I did recently when I had a really close call & my foot made contact with the other car to stop something worse. I was super angry, and losing my cool wasn't great.

Usually I shake my head, tell myself that they're starring in their own movie, and move on enjoying my ride. It's not worth it because that anger puts you more at risk for an accident as your attention is divided. Have fun & stay safe!

BootScootin'FireFighter · Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:19 pm

I also like the Carl Winslow technique

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:25 pm

On our trip yesterday, we were pulling left out of a parking lot into a line of cars, and were waiting to do so because the line was backed up enough that I didn't feel we had room. I had left room to the right of us for somebody to turn right out of the same parking lot, and and large SUV pulled up. After waiting a moment, the same SUV pulled around us, left, into the line, with his back left corner sticking out into traffic.

I don't have a full face, my visor was up, traffic was not moving around us, and I didn't notice the guy's window was down when I had one of those moments where there's no filter between your brain and mouth and I complained, very loudly,

"SERIOUSLY??"

The guy looked and me and hollered back to me "I know, I'm sorry, I didn't notice you, I'll let you in" Shaking his head at himself XDDD

I *almost* felt bad... but I suppose every now and then it pays to call somebody out on their BS?

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:21 pm

^^ Well, I guess it's good that he didn't notice you so much that he ran you over.

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:35 pm

Syd wrote:^^ Well, I guess it's good that he didn't notice you so much that he ran you over.

I kind of really doubt he actually didn't notice us... we were right beside him, and there were two of us, he had to drive around us, and turn left from the right side of the turn-out. I think it was more of a lame excuse kind of thing.

But yes, I'd right have some guy be a dick to me than run me over

Reesh · Post by **Reesh** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:57 pm

The reality is that there are all different levels of recklessness and ignorance on the road, no matter the vehicle of choice. The best thing we can do is to drive defensively in/on each of these vehicles. The fixie rider who blows stop signs is less of a problem if you are looking carefully. The lane splitting scooterist isn't a problem if you are doing head checks before jumping into another lane. There will always be situations that are beyond your control and it is such a waste of energy to be mad about it all the time. Be mad when your day/week/life is ruined because of an accident, but until then, stay zen

I am proud to be a cautious and courteous bicycle commuter, scooter commuter (like the sound of that) and also a car commuter. I will always favor stricter licensing procedures and education for road users of all kinds.

Dibber · Post by **Dibber** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:07 pm

If the car is close to me I honk my horn to let them know that I own this road too. Then if I can and it is safe to do so, I pass them. I get this when I drive my RV Camper too.

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:38 pm

Last week I was riding home from work and I swear there was an a*****e at every intersection. they went around me even though I was going 10 mph above speed limit by GPS, not our speedometer. Then As I was sitting at t he red light some idiot housewife in her SUV decided to make a right turn around me (I was in front of her.....When her fender was level with my leg at the light I pulled up my visor and did the "What the heck look". She backed off. Before that some moron was riding my tail for several miles. He did not leave even half scooter length between his car bumper and Dobby's tail. Probably did not have insurance either....This morning I drove kiddo to school . There was someon'e Gramps who forgot he needed to be in my lane to turn into the school street . He turned his blinkera when I was almost parallel to him. Don't ask me how I saw the wanted to get into my lane.Then he proceeded to get out of the car in a drop off zone, get around the car , unload his granddaughter who was perfectly able to get out of the car on her own and should have done exactly that, put the back pack on her, hand her lunch bag and THEN he decided he needed to hug her for the next minute and a half. At that point there were 6 cars behind us. I used the horn. It was either that or get out of the car take his car keys and show them where he will not be able to to get to them without assistance of GI doctor. So It is not just riders who have to put up with some of these drivers

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:46 pm

I get people passing me on the right shoulder at intersections to make a right hand turn ALL THE TIME... when I myself, am planning to turn right, and have my right turn signal on! When I'm at this one particular intersection I even stick the nose of my scoot or car out to the right so that people don't get the dumb idea to try to go around me.
This is in my station wagon AND on the scooter!
So there's no way it's because "I didn't see her" or any other stupid excuse.
This particular intersection happens to be nestled between the local State Trooper HQ AND the Saratoga County Sheriffs Department too!
I had a wonderful soccer mom in her giant-a$$ SUV do this to me one day RIGHT NEXT TO A COP... and the cop DID NOTHING. Meanwhile, my bf and I were going to dinner one night in our beater and he pulled up the shoulder to make a right (coming from the other direction/other side of the intersection) and a Sheriff pulls out of the Dept parking lot across the street, throws his lights on, and nearly causes a large pile-up, JUST to pull him over for making that turn.
It's craziness here in CP, BH, BSpa and Saratoga, let me tell ya.

I usually give the "ARE YOU EFFIN CRAZY/STUPID!?" look... or I just yell it... from both my car and my scooter.

I'd say the worst part is, this intersection desperately needs a right hand turn lane from both directions, and there is plenty of shoulder space to make such lanes. It's not even like the police around here enforce the "passing on the right" "passing on the shoulder" laws here! (We were even let go from the crazy nut cop that pulled my bf over on our way to dinner)

I feel like if all of the laws were actually enforced we wouldn't have such awful traffic problems/people doing stupid things all the time!

(Especially now that NY has hiked up it's fines for almost all infractions [moving and non-moving], and increased the court surcharge to $85!)

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:34 am

AWinn6889 wrote:I get people passing me on the right shoulder at intersections to make a right hand turn ALL THE TIME... when I myself, am planning to turn right, and have my right turn signal on! When I'm at this one particular intersection I even stick the nose of my scoot or car out to the right so that people don't get the dumb idea to try to go around me.
This is in my station wagon AND on the scooter!
So there's no way it's because "I didn't see her" or any other stupid excuse.

I often get drivers pulling into a right hand turn lane, then trying to speed past me to go straight when the light turns green. This happens in my car and on my scooter, but more often on the scooter. It's really freaking dangerous for all involved, especially since rushing out into the intersection as soon as a light turns is a really bad idea in LA.

So, in the not chilling out dept. (again, DO NOT FOLLOW MY EXAMPLE) I have on occasion, in the car, not allowed said d-bag pull around me and forced them to slow down to avoid running into cars parked on the curb on the opposite side. On the scoot, I have honked, hollered, then just let 'em pass. I know that if it comes down to taking out a guy on a scooter or running head-on into cars parked on the curb on the other side of the intersection, guy on a scooter (me) is getting taken out.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:43 am

the more experience under your belt, the better you get at reading the "body language" (for lack of a better word) of drivers/cars, thus leading to less frustration b/c you know what the bozos are going to do before it happens. Early in my riding, I was furious all the time b/c off all the infractions, but now I predict most of them. When they happen though, I am steamed! Probably the best thing is to keep up with traffic-WITHIN REASON, and pretend like everyone is texting and drunk.
not to be profiling but there are certain cars I am especially wary near:
Vans
BMW's, especially black (WTF?)

famous for running red lights
Monster pick ups
in suburbs only: SUV's with kids watching dvds. Distracted soccer moms and dads=death.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:48 am

AWinn6889 wrote:I feel like if all of the laws were actually enforced we wouldn't have such awful traffic problems/people doing stupid things all the time!

Being in law enforcement, the reality of this statement is; "If the laws were actually enforced on everyone ELSE, we wouldn't have such awful traffic problems". I have read SOOOoooo many posts where the poster felt the cop in question was being totally unreasonable by applying the traffic laws to the poster. I recently read a poll that said the vast majority of drivers believe they are superior drivers. If this thread is to be believed, then that cannot be true. Are all members of our society willing to stand up and say, "YES! Apply all laws to me, too!"

Probably not. Have you ever sped? Yes. Have you ever eased through a stop sign? Yes. Would you be hugely offended if you were popped for such "minor" offenses? Yes.

Sorry about my cynicism, but, 56 years of watching human nature has led me there.

--Keys

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:02 am

Keys wrote:Being in law enforcement, the reality of this statement is; "If the laws were actually enforced on everyone ELSE, we wouldn't have such awful traffic problems". I have read SOOOoooo many posts where the poster felt the cop in question was being totally unreasonable by applying the traffic laws to the poster. I recently read a poll that said the vast majority of drivers believe they are superior drivers. If this thread is to be believed, then that cannot be true. Are all members of our society willing to stand up and say, "YES! Apply all laws to me, too!"

Probably not. Have you ever sped? Yes. Have you ever eased through a stop sign? Yes. Would you be hugely offended if you were popped for such "minor" offenses? Yes.

Sorry about my cynicism, but, 56 years of watching human nature has led me there.

--Keys

How do you know how I drive?
I make a point to actually stop at all stop signs, while those who would have stopped AFTER me roll right through without hesitation. If I roll through a stop sign then I deserve to be pulled over, just like everyone else. I've gotten speeding tickets, usually when I was late for something... or in the Geo when my speed-o all of the sudden kicked the bucket.. and what did I do? Went to court, paid my fines. I rarely ever speed because it's not worth having to pay $235 every time I get nailed by that one cop that I didn't see.
I wasn't saying that it was unreasonable the we got pulled over for doing the same thing, when there wasn't even a cop on the road for that matter. I was saying that it was ridiculous that someone did this right in front of a cop and he did nothing, doesn't matter if it was me, or anyone else, THAT person should have been pulled over and given a ticket. The other cop that whipped out of the HQ, turned on his lights and nearly caused a huge accident to pull over my boyfriend... went about it the wrong way, but at least he was doing his job! Nice of him to let us go, but if they're letting everyone go with a warning, most people are just going to think "oh I got away with it this time, I guess I'll just keep doing it because they're just going to let me go!"
THAT'S why we have so many problems. People figure "If I don't get caught/If they just let me go, it's all good" then keep driving like dumba$$es and putting lives at risk with their stupidity.

PS. I have a lot of family in law enforcement at many different levels, and yes MOST people think it's not fair when they get in trouble, but demand others be persecuted for doing the same thing. I am not one of those people.

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:12 am

ericalm wrote:I know that if it comes down to taking out a guy on a scooter or running head-on into cars parked on the curb on the other side of the intersection, guy on a scooter (me) is getting taken out.

Thankfully there isn't any parking on the main roads allowed in CP. There is one point where the main-county route through the busy north end of town, where I work, two busy lanes of traffic merge into one, and it's ALWAYS a nightmare. People either don't know right of way rules around here, or they are all determined to be first. Most that get stuck in the ending-right lane end up slamming on their brakes and cutting in at the last second because the person they were trying to cut-off from the right wouldn't let them in.
I'm super glad I found a more rural, less busy route that actually ends up butting about 5 minutes off of my travel time because there are so many less people, only one lane, and no traffic lights. There are very few businesses on the road, and even less houses. It's nice in the car, even nicer on the scoot.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:24 am

AWinn6889 wrote:
Keys wrote:Being in law enforcement, the reality of this statement is; "If the laws were actually enforced on everyone ELSE, we wouldn't have such awful traffic problems". I have read SOOOoooo many posts where the poster felt the cop in question was being totally unreasonable by applying the traffic laws to the poster. I recently read a poll that said the vast majority of drivers believe they are superior drivers. If this thread is to be believed, then that cannot be true. Are all members of our society willing to stand up and say, "YES! Apply all laws to me, too!"

Probably not. Have you ever sped? Yes. Have you ever eased through a stop sign? Yes. Would you be hugely offended if you were popped for such "minor" offenses? Yes.

Sorry about my cynicism, but, 56 years of watching human nature has led me there.

--Keys
How do you know how I drive?

I didn't read that as being directed at you specifically.

But there's some human nature at work there. People will complain about what a litigious society we live in then as soon as they or someone they know is slighted, they scream, "SUE THEIR ASSES OFF!" (This has happened in many threads here!)

Everyone wants law enforcement until they get pinched.

Etc.

Personally, I'll own up that I ride too fast much of the time but I won't weep or complain if I get a ticket. Serves me right.

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:50 am

ericalm wrote:
AWinn6889 wrote:
Keys wrote:Being in law enforcement, the reality of this statement is; "If the laws were actually enforced on everyone ELSE, we wouldn't have such awful traffic problems". I have read SOOOoooo many posts where the poster felt the cop in question was being totally unreasonable by applying the traffic laws to the poster. I recently read a poll that said the vast majority of drivers believe they are superior drivers. If this thread is to be believed, then that cannot be true. Are all members of our society willing to stand up and say, "YES! Apply all laws to me, too!"

Probably not. Have you ever sped? Yes. Have you ever eased through a stop sign? Yes. Would you be hugely offended if you were popped for such "minor" offenses? Yes.

Sorry about my cynicism, but, 56 years of watching human nature has led me there.

--Keys
How do you know how I drive?
I didn't read that as being directed at you specifically.

But there's some human nature at work there. People will complain about what a litigious society we live in then as soon as they or someone they know is slighted, they scream, "SUE THEIR ASSES OFF!" (This has happened in many threads here!)

Everyone wants law enforcement until they get pinched.

Etc.

Personally, I'll own up that I ride too fast much of the time but I won't weep or complain if I get a ticket. Serves me right.

Exactly what I was going to say, but much more concise... I think Keys' 'you' was an in-general 'you'.

And I agree... I know exactly what he's talking about, not from working in law enforcement, but from working at a return desk, actually. For some reason the general public seems to think that yes, rules are good and there for a reason (once you explain the reasons to them)... but THEY should be exceptions. This once. And can't STAND being told no anyway, like they are children.

I find the premise quite similar.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:55 am

I have a weird system of faith. I have faith that if I follow the rules set forth by the DMV and DOT that I'll be OK. Actually, that's not entirely correct. I believe that if I follow those rules as guidelines in accordance with my instinct (it's gotten me this far) that I'll be OK. I believe that everyone else who has a license has agreed to those same guidelines (or rules/facts if you're not a damned moron). I also believe that everyone on the road is out to kill me (experience proves it true) and it's my duty to make sure they can't. That's worked well for me, so far.

I also follow my observations. What I've observed is that most drivers aren't busy driving. They're too busy micro managing their meta-personas via their smart phones, cell phones, laptops (I sh!t you not) and tablets instead of the very demanding task of driving.

What that basically equivalates to is that I'm the softest target on the road and everyone is gunning for me. As much as my hormones and sense of right and justice screams at me, I do not engage any hostile drivers when I'm on the most vulnerable vehicle on the road. Instead, I use the primary advantage that my mode of transport allows and I throttle dodge and weave.

I don't care what you need to boast to your friends or strangers on the internet, when people loose their minds, keep yours. Tell whatever stories you need to to save face, but for whatever is holy to you, realize that you are the fragilest flower on the road when you're on a scooter or bike and use your brain. Ride safe, ride often.

If you get so pissed off that you need to pull up to someone to correct them, scratch that and take a detour to some place that had good milkshakes or something.

Use your brain. Think it through. Don't be a douche.

That was sorta ranty, wasn't it? I apologize for that.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:07 am

Lostmycage wrote:Use your brain. Think it through. Don't be a douche.

Yep, that's basically it in a nutshell!

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:13 am

ericalm wrote:
Lostmycage wrote:Use your brain. Think it through. Don't be a douche.
Yep, that's basically it in a nutshell!

Well, sure. If you need a nutshell version, that's certainly it. But the other blathering I did should at least be skimmed, hehe.

Ultimately, I don't care if you get killed, just don't set a precedence for the zombie cadgers so that I become a target as well, that's just being a jacka$$.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:50 am

Lostmycage wrote:I don't care if you get killed

I care if you get killed.

Reesh · Post by **Reesh** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:57 pm

Oh man. I hate getting pulled over. But I always deserve it! I'll get mad about it. I'll even cry about it. But I always deserve it!

Personally, I believe driving tests should be more challenging. Like they are in Italy for instance. I think defensive driving courses should be required. I think MSF courses should be required. I think winter driving courses should be required in places that get snow and ice regularly. I think it should be easier to lose your license (make the punishments more severe). It won't take long for people to figure out how to drive their best.

These rules would be very unpopular even though it would make us safer over all. And no politician is going to enact anything like this for fear of losing reelection. UGHHHH.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:39 pm

ericalm wrote:
Lostmycage wrote:I don't care if you get killed
I care if you get killed.

Hehe, by "you" I didn't mean you specifically. Thanks, buddy. I don't want you to get killed either. I guess I don't really want anyone killed, but I would like others to take some self accountability.

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:39 pm

Reesh wrote:Oh man. I hate getting pulled over. But I always deserve it! I'll get mad about it. I'll even cry about it. But I always deserve it!

Personally, I believe driving tests should be more challenging. Like they are in Italy for instance. I think defensive driving courses should be required. I think MSF courses should be required. I think winter driving courses should be required in places that get snow and ice regularly. I think it should be easier to lose your license (make the punishments more severe). It won't take long for people to figure out how to drive their best.

These rules would be very unpopular even though it would make us safer over all. And no politician is going to enact anything like this for fear of losing reelection. UGHHHH.

Driving tests in I think... Sweden or Norway? Maybe Germany or Denmark... I think it's Norway, idk I saw it on TopGear BBC a year ago when they did a story following a kid that was learning to drive there. They start when kids are 14 or 15, but they CANNOT get a license until they are 18, I think. Anyway, they're the most difficult driving tests in the world. Their version of "Driver's Ed" IS required and they have some of the safest roads in the world.... while the US is in the bottom 10!

(Yes I know this is from 2007... but nothing has really changed here)
(Oh, and the UK/Britain is now #1)

If we had stricter standards, and tougher laws, we would be safer. Plain and simple.
To offset the amount of drivers that would lose their licenses rather quickly, an overhaul of public transportation would probably be a good idea. Where is all of our tax money going anyway?

People like my stepsister wouldn't be allowed to drive, neither would my step mother... I would feel much more at ease if this were the case. I'm actually surprised neither of them has killed someone yet, keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that they never do.
However, both of them have been pulled over/ticketed for using a cell phone while driving MULTIPLE times, and still continue to use their phones in the car! My stepsister fell asleep at the wheel of her Sentra on the way to Buffalo, with the cruise control on, and ended up demolishing every single side of the thing by the time it stopped. She was lucky to walk away, and didn't receive so much as a 'parking on the pavement' ticket! My stepmom actually caused more than $6,000 in damage to her AND my father's cars IN OUR DRIVEWAY because she was trying to avoid the water from the sprinkler and decided THAT was more important than avoiding the side of my dad's car!

It's craziness. I see and hear the stupid things that people around me, friends, family, etc. do while driving and I am just appalled. It's nuts.

So bet your rear-end that when I'm on the scooter I am driving extremely defensively, avoiding all possible hazards, all the time. Usually when someone does something stupid around me (like passing on the right shoulder to blow through a red light and make a right hand turn, when I am in fact turning right as well...) I usually try to brush it off.

BUT, sometimes you just gotta yell at the stupid people, they are never going to get it unless someone tells them... or they kill/severely injure someone. I think yelling at them is better, personally.
Then pull into the next closest street and use another route, or like Lostmycage said, get a milkshake or something. Whatever you have to do to get away from the crazies, do it. It's not worth your life to seek revenge on them, in a scooter or a car.
...the only exception would be a monster truck. Then it would be AWESOME.

Ps. I would care if any of you were killed, even though I don't even know you, none of you...

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:51 pm

Reesh wrote:Oh man. I hate getting pulled over. But I always deserve it! I'll get mad about it. I'll even cry about it. But I always deserve it!

Personally, I believe driving tests should be more challenging. Like they are in Italy for instance. I think defensive driving courses should be required. I think MSF courses should be required. I think winter driving courses should be required in places that get snow and ice regularly. I think it should be easier to lose your license (make the punishments more severe). It won't take long for people to figure out how to drive their best.

These rules would be very unpopular even though it would make us safer over all. And no politician is going to enact anything like this for fear of losing reelection. UGHHHH.

I actually totally agree with this BUT

BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT

They *can't* start taking licenses away more readily, until they SERIOUSLY upgrade the public transit systems in MOST cities. We're a fricking state capital... we only have a bus system, and it's a complete waste of time and money to even try and use it, the routes are so outdated.

But I agree with you, if all major cities had good bus routes, I'd have no problem taking people's licenses temporarily... say, 3,6,8 months depending on what they did, and make them take the bus, walk, or bike, just to remind them that a driver's license is a privilege not a right.

And please don't get me started on how I think that after 50 or 60 tests to maintain your license should be put into the system. I'm sorry- there are WAY TOO MANY old people that SHOULD NOT be behind the wheel that are, just because all the DMV did was test their eyesight.

But again, we need to make sure we have good public transit before limiting licensure. Those old people that shouldn't drive still need to get to the store.

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:12 pm

L.A. has a good public transit system but people still prefer their cars. When I was in the U.K. and took the tube, the subway as it's know here in the U.S., It broke down and I was stuck in it for 45 min. The underground is like a maze in London. Unless you know the route to take, one can get easily lost. Much different than the Metro of L.A. where it's pretty strait forward.

uncleralph · Post by **uncleralph** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:07 pm

LunaP wrote:I actually totally agree with this BUT

BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT

They *can't* start taking licenses away more readily, until they SERIOUSLY upgrade the public transit systems in MOST cities.

The concept that we can't take away peoples licenses because the public transit system isn't good enough is an interesting position. One that I must admit I don't agree with. I don't know what the answer is, but just taking away a person's license does not seem to work as shown by this article in our local paper today:

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sectio ... yID=127255

Police were able to apprehend a person with a revoked license that was fleeing a crash because he left a trail of beer cans after trying to flee with a case of beer.

Ralph

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:35 pm

uncleralph wrote:
LunaP wrote:I actually totally agree with this BUT

BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT

They *can't* start taking licenses away more readily, until they SERIOUSLY upgrade the public transit systems in MOST cities.
The concept that we can't take away peoples licenses because the public transit system isn't good enough is an interesting position. One that I must admit I don't agree with. I don't know what the answer is, but just taking away a person's license does not seem to work as shown by this article in our local paper today:

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sectio ... yID=127255

Police were able to apprehend a person with a revoked license that was fleeing a crash because he left a trail of beer cans after trying to flee with a case of beer.

Ralph

Take away license and impound cars perhaps... but where to put all the cars?!
It's a never-ending list of things that will need to be done if the US were to change the laws... unfortunately the best interest of the people is no longer something the Gov't considers terribly important . Plus, NO ONE would ever get elected/re-elected if they were to adopt the European rules, and transit system. So it will probably never change, and we will remain one of the countries with the largest population, and in the top 10 for highest traffic fatality rate.
Also, it's not just the cities that would need a re-vamped transit system, how are people going to get from their homes in east-bumble-hoe-down to their office in the city? As far as I know, there are TWO buses that run from the "North Country" (I don't think they go much farther north than Saratoga really) to Albany, Schenectady and Troy. One on Route 50, one on Route 9. That's about it. If you want to go anywhere within the city, you're fine, there's hundreds of buses in the Tri-city area to take you wherever you need to go... but outside of those areas, good luck man. You're either paying an arm and a leg, or you're hitch hiking.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:14 pm

Drum Pro wrote:L.A. has a good public transit system but people still prefer their cars. When I was in the U.K. and took the tube, the subway as it's know here in the U.S., It broke down and I was stuck in it for 45 min. The underground is like a maze in London. Unless you know the route to take, one can get easily lost. Much different than the Metro of L.A. where it's pretty strait forward.

The LA Metro is great but has very limited routes and destinations, partially due to the geographic constraints here (and issues like faults and huge underground methane pockets). We do have an extensive bus system, too, though.

I ride the MTA (subways) often but am lucky to live and work near stations on the Red Line. I even rode it last night when my friggin' Vespa wouldn't start because the battery was dead again. (Need a new flywheel and stator. I know this so it's my own damn fault. Still… meh!)

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:21 pm

From my personal experience, NYC's subway system is a nightmare. If we didn't have a friend that lived there and rode the subways everyday when we went to the Red Bull Air Race last year, we would have been doomed.
The DC/Maryland metro system seemed nice 10 years ago when I was there visiting my step-aunt outside of Baltimore. My step sister and I didn't get lost once, and we were only 12 years old!

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:51 pm

@ ericalm: That is true but what I like about it is that your ticket or bus pass transfers to the buses. I grew up in Hollywood and could get just about anywhere using their system. When my first car died I had to use the metro from the red line to the blue line to the green line. Also when your on the red or blue line, what street you want is clearly marked. It's not like that in London's underground. You are right that it is limited though.

scootavaran · Post by **scootavaran** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:36 pm

I think the biggest problem with vehicle tranportation is that it's greatly over used.
How often do you see people hope in to their cars just to go down the street or even check the mail. people around here perfer to used a bigass truck to get them to their job at bestbuy or something.

I've even seen people walk there dogs while in a truck driving beside the dog

..wait i dont what im gettin at here..i dont even know if this is the right post ugh i need more coffee.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:58 am

it'll just happen, most likely. unless you're a complete hothead

i used to get upset at some cagers for cutting me off, turning in front of me, and generally trying to kill me, even if they weren't really trying. this was in my first few months of riding, too.

i have now been riding for just over a year (not long at all) and nothing ruffles me, really. i just keep on riding and gliding if things get sticky. not my problem

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:36 am

uncleralph wrote:
LunaP wrote:I actually totally agree with this BUT

BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT

They *can't* start taking licenses away more readily, until they SERIOUSLY upgrade the public transit systems in MOST cities.
The concept that we can't take away peoples licenses because the public transit system isn't good enough is an interesting position. One that I must admit I don't agree with. I don't know what the answer is, but just taking away a person's license does not seem to work as shown by this article in our local paper today:

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sectio ... yID=127255

Police were able to apprehend a person with a revoked license that was fleeing a crash because he left a trail of beer cans after trying to flee with a case of beer.

Ralph

Unfortunately, there will always be people that do exactly what they have been told they cannot. In cities where the public transit is shoddy, more people are likely to risk driving with a revoked or suspended license because they feel they need to, or feel it is somehow better than trying the public transit.

Also... like AWinn said it is kind of a neverending thing. Here's what we do: instead of impounding vehicles, if you are caught driving your vehicle while your license is suspended or revoked, the city comes to your house and puts a boot on your car. Just like they do when you owe them bajillions in parking tickets. When you prove to them you can't be trusted to not get behind the wheel when you aren't supposed to, it shouldn't be able to leave your driveway at all. Then they are only hurting themselves more, because their friend/spouse/family can't borrow it or give them rides using it.

AWinn6889 wrote:From my personal experience, NYC's subway system is a nightmare. If we didn't have a friend that lived there and rode the subways everyday when we went to the Red Bull Air Race last year, we would have been doomed.
The DC/Maryland metro system seemed nice 10 years ago when I was there visiting my step-aunt outside of Baltimore. My step sister and I didn't get lost once, and we were only 12 years old!

No clue about NYC- but DC seemed okay, and Baltimore's light rail + the buses is way better than what we have here.

Best thing ever? Chicago's system. CTA rocks my socks. I visited for a long weekend, and the bus/subway system was SO EASY to navigate even though that city is monstrous. AND it was CLEAN.

kmrcstintn · Post by **kmrcstintn** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:32 pm

I'm relatively new to scooting & I am also trying to cope with 'unconcerned' vehicular operators, especially when they pull off a passing manuever on a 2 lane road without passing zones; I really don't have one set method to handle it, but I do need to develop patience...

I ride in the right 1/3 section of my lane most of the time to avoid wind buffeting from large vehicles going in the opposite direction, so I guess I 'invite' folks to pass me;

when I realize a vehicle is trying to pass me due to my slower speed, I usually start uttering "What the _________________" and catch myself and just shake my head...

one time I sped up to maintain distance behind the vehicle that passed me on a quiet neighborhood street; at the red light I honked, waved, and turned right...kinda my way of saying 'was it worth the effort to get to the light 10 seconds ahead of me...'

yesterday I had an 'idiot' in a hurry on a 2-lane road in the middle of farm country that quickly & unsafely passed me with a blind corner up ahead; that really pissed me off so I sped up to get a glimpse of the license plate, but the 'idiot' gunned it...guess he caught my headshake in his rearview mirror...

the worst one I had was the first night after I got my motorcycle license riding to work; I was approaching a light which turned yellow & I flashed my brakes but the a-hole didn't back off and literally forced me thru a red light; I did a hasty swerve and brake manuever to get out of the way; the a-hole went around me and blew the horn (my mistake I guess...yellow must mean speed up to avoid stopping at the red light!); I gunned it trying to get a glimpse at the license plate, but the Honda CR-V was too far ahead to see it

uncleralph · Post by **uncleralph** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:48 pm

kmrcstintn wrote:...... that really pissed me off so I sped up to get a glimpse of the license plate,...... I gunned it trying to get a glimpse at the license plate.....

I am just curious - what would you do with the information if you were able to get the license plate numbers?

polianarchy · Post by **polianarchy** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:58 pm

I think about kittycats.

BootScootin'FireFighter · Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:43 pm

AWinn6889 wrote:From my personal experience, NYC's subway system is a nightmare. If we didn't have a friend that lived there and rode the subways everyday when we went to the Red Bull Air Race last year, we would have been doomed.
The DC/Maryland metro system seemed nice 10 years ago when I was there visiting my step-aunt outside of Baltimore. My step sister and I didn't get lost once, and we were only 12 years old!

The DC Metro is good for commuters, and for yuppies from the suburbs to come into town for a night of boozin. It is not conducive to getting around from A to B within the Beltway. It was designed on a spoke-wheel layout. All the lines branch outward from the downtown core to the suburbs with massive parking structures at the outer terminals. It was designed to get suburban commuters into and out of the core and move tourists from hotel areas, which it does pretty well. The bus systems supplement movement from point to point, but that's not efficient on crowded streets without designated busways. New Yorks system is extremely efficient for movement of all masses of people and living carfree. Sorry it's "confusing" for tourists, but for the millions of daily riders, it's the lifeline of the city.

At the end of the day, the reason for more a$$holery on the roads is our overly demanding lifestyles we've come to accept as increasingly normal. Both parents now work fulltime jobs and longer hours. Commuting distances are out of control due to the explosion of housing costs. And everyone is trying to cram more and more into less and less time, including business and personal conversations. There are more and more people spilling into overcrowded streets in oversized vehicles jockeying for space and feeling boxed in that we must contend with. We've adapted to making up for lost time by being more aggressive in driving habits and playing catch up on the phone when behind the wheel. All that citing and locking more people up is going to do is create a huge demand on courtrooms and jails. Transit upgrades would be great, but Big Oil, GM, and other companies with vested interests in keeping people in cars pay big money to lobby politicians. Transit agencies aren't the one taking care of these people, so obviously the highway projects get top priority. And building a mega highway to relieve congestion when there isn't a transit system in place is like polishing a turd. It's a temporary fix. Anyway, thats my rant.

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:03 pm

BootScootin'FireFighter wrote:New Yorks system is extremely efficient for movement of all masses of people and living carfree. Sorry it's "confusing" for tourists, but for the millions of daily riders, it's the lifeline of the city

I wasn't complaining, I was just thankful that we had someone with us that lived there and knew where they were going. I don't go to the city often, and when I do, I usually don't end up on a subway.
But we wanted to go from pier 37 (or something, maybe 17, I don't remember) to Zum Schneider on the other side of town, without taking the GTI through the city (there was A LOT of construction going on near the piers when we were there, it was a nightmare, and the GTI is our baby).

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:53 am

AWinn6889 wrote: Their version of "Driver's Ed" IS required and they have some of the safest roads in the world.... while the US is in the bottom 10!

(Yes I know this is from 2007... but nothing has really changed here)
(Oh, and the UK/Britain is now #1)

That graph doesn't tell the whole story. It doesn't take into account how much each person drives. One country's average driver could drive 20k miles/year while the other only drives 2k miles/year.

LunaP wrote: They *can't* start taking licenses away more readily, until they SERIOUSLY upgrade the public transit systems in MOST cities. We're a fricking state capital... we only have a bus system, and it's a complete waste of time and money to even try and use it, the routes are so outdated.

Bad public transportation will only encourage people to drive safer so that they will not lose their license. If public transportation was cheap/quick/accesible then people wouldn't care as much if they lost their license for a month/2 months/etc...

AWinn6889 wrote: Take away license and impound cars perhaps... but where to put all the cars?!

Also, it's not just the cities that would need a re-vamped transit system, how are people going to get from their homes in east-bumble-hoe-down to their office in the city?

The cars could be lent to organizations, (international) college students, or whatever else.

The worse the alternatives to having a license/car, the more you will want to keep your license. Why do you even care whether the jackass, who drives drunk or recklessly, will have to go out of their way to get to work. if you can't do the time...

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:18 pm

Sigh. I totally lost it today. I went against every scrap of good advice and knowledge. I Hulked out. I'd have done something really stupid if I'd been riding with a cinder block or big rock on my floorboard. (No logic here, just that given the opportunity, there would have been violence or property destruction.)

It's forgivable when someone doesn't see you in an adjacent lane, tries to swerve in (from a stopped, backed up lane) without signaling and has to slam on his brakes. I'd maneuvered away from it and he wouldn't have hit me anyways. Happens almost every day. But then he pulls in behind me and once we're clear almost hits me again as he speeds up and tries to swing around me as I'm changing lanes (and signaling, and riding at a proper speed) is something else. I slow down to slow him down, then he honks and yells at me… Well, that's when I redlined.

The low point of this is me turning around to see him yelling at me, at which point I start yelling ("How many times are you going to try to kill me?!?" which I doubt he heard or understood), shaking my fist and giving him the finger.

A block away, I pass him and see he's talking on the phone. Hands-free, but whatever. He almost took me out twice because he was in a rush and on a call then got mad at me. Still full of rage, I nearly pulled up alongside him to, uh, escalate the situation, but thankfully we were surrounded by traffic and I had to keep moving along.

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:34 pm

slusher5 wrote: That graph doesn't tell the whole story. It doesn't take into account how much each person drives. One country's average driver could drive 20k miles/year while the other only drives 2k miles/year.

That really doesn't matter. Someone who puts 1,000 miles on their car in a year is just as likely to kill someone as someone who drives 40,000. Maybe the person who drives 40,000 has more opportunity, but that doesn't mean they it has a higher probability to prduce a different statistic.
Most accidents occur within a mile from home, ya know.

mia_mali · Post by **mia_mali** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:53 pm

I sing show tunes, usually in my head, but often out loud. It keeps me from getting angry.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:01 pm

AWinn6889 wrote:
slusher5 wrote: That graph doesn't tell the whole story. It doesn't take into account how much each person drives. One country's average driver could drive 20k miles/year while the other only drives 2k miles/year.
That really doesn't matter. Someone who puts 1,000 miles on their car in a year is just as likely to kill someone as someone who drives 40,000. Maybe the person who drives 40,000 has more opportunity, but that doesn't mean they it has a higher probability to prduce a different statistic.
Most accidents occur within a mile from home, ya know.

Not quite right either!

Provided all other variables are the same (location, time of day, traffic, weather, driving skill, visibility, etc.), each driver would have the same probability (per mile driven) of getting into an accident each time they drove.

In the aggregate, more trips or more miles driven definitely increases the probability. So someone who puts on 40K/year is more likely to be in an accident through the course of a year.

Based solely on miles driven, yeah the person who drives more is more likely to be in a crash.

The "close to home" stat (often misinterpreted as meaning people are less cautious close to home) is because that's where people do the bulk of their driving. They always return home. Unless they crash and get carted off in an ambulance. Or go out and "get lucky." Etc.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:11 pm

ericalm wrote:Sigh. I totally lost it today. I went against every scrap of good advice and knowledge. I Hulked out. I'd have done something really stupid if I'd been riding with a cinder block or big rock on my floorboard. (No logic here, just that given the opportunity, there would have been violence or property destruction.)

It's forgivable when someone doesn't see you in an adjacent lane, tries to swerve in (from a stopped, backed up lane) without signaling and has to slam on his brakes. I'd maneuvered away from it and he wouldn't have hit me anyways. Happens almost every day. But then he pulls in behind me and once we're clear almost hits me again as he speeds up and tries to swing around me as I'm changing lanes (and signaling, and riding at a proper speed) is something else. I slow down to slow him down, then he honks and yells at me… Well, that's when I redlined.

The low point of this is me turning around to see him yelling at me, at which point I start yelling ("How many times are you going to try to kill me?!?" which I doubt he heard or understood), shaking my fist and giving him the finger.

A block away, I pass him and see he's talking on the phone. Hands-free, but whatever. He almost took me out twice because he was in a rush and on a call then got mad at me. Still full of rage, I nearly pulled up alongside him to, uh, escalate the situation, but thankfully we were surrounded by traffic and I had to keep moving along.

Awesome. But bear me out.

You went postal, but because of the traffic situation the-idiot-in-the-car didn't notice, so for all intents, you were just venting. So the question is, did venting improve your mood, or did it ruin the day or morning?

I posted some touchy-feely stuff earlier in the thread which often works for me, but really, sometimes, nothing can compare to a couple minutes of cussing, hollering and creative gesturing to get the other guy's crap off your mind.

Good for you, Eric, is what I say.