Piaggio BV 250 -- likely!

Discussion of Genuine Scooters and Anything Scooter Related

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teabow1
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Post by teabow1 »

PeteH wrote:Amen, Rita.

teabow1, while I applaud your mastery of a particular skill, this skill is way down on the list of stuff for responsible prudent riding. Just because one self-proclaimed Internet 'expert' says it's so on his website doesn't make it so.

I had to re-learn the art of prudential ridership after two decades without a two-wheeler. Working on ways to increase my situational awareness and (re-)learning to countersteer at street speeds, IMHO, are far more useful and beneficial in general than a particular arcane turning skill that might be used once in a veritable blue moon. And I'm always still learning.

None of us know more than all of us, y'dig?
Fair enough.

Just to say though that for my scooter, practically on tight corners, turning the handlebar from a stopped position is a must if you want to negotiate the turn from a stop. The easier way, of course, is if the scooter is already angled towards the right when stopped. However, I often don't know if I need to make a right turn on the street so I'm often perpendicular to the cross street before realising I want to turn right from a stop. That's for my scooter. Small-wheels, I don't know. : - ) Not my experience to say.
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Skootz Kabootz
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Post by Skootz Kabootz »

teabow1 wrote:...turning the handlebar from a stopped position is a must if you want to negotiate the turn from a stop...
It most certainly is not.
teabow1 wrote:The easier way, of course, is if the scooter is already angled towards the right when stopped. However, I often don't know if I need to make a right turn on the street so I'm often perpendicular to the cross street before realising I want to turn right from a stop. That's for my scooter. Small-wheels, I don't know. : - ) Not my experience to say.
When you stop, every time you stop, you should be positioned according to what your escape route is. Not your next turn. Ignore that basic rule of ride safety and you may never get to make your next turn.

You Sir need some riding time. Get your head out of the books and your a** out on a sideroad. Or in a parking lot. Then later try a main road. Get three or four years riding time behind you then see what you think about all this starting with the wheel turned nonsense. Most of all, remember, your first three years riding is when you are at the most risk of taking a spill, so take care out there. And do take caution not to fall victim to thinking you know it all.
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LunaP
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Post by LunaP »

I'm going to pass on actually quoting a bunch of stuff, but I can't agree with Skootz or Pdxrita more.

I was taught when I learned to drive, and not just by one person either, that when turning at an intersection, a proper and smooth turn is executed by first starting into the turn by pulling straight into the intersection, then turning your wheels towards where you want to go and accelerating into the turn. I understand that 80 or 90% of the time driving four wheels is totally different from driving two, but I do NOT think this is one of those times. Turning is turning, and that is a basic concept of driving pretty much anything. Did you ever drive a car? If so, did you sit at intersections waiting for the light to turn green with your wheels cocked to the right? Probably not. Nobody is taught to do that. I don't think anybody SHOULD be taught to do that- I do not see ANY logic in it.

The only times you should ever NEED to perform a maneuver like that, is if you have positioned yourself very incorrectly at a light, the intersection is incredibly strange or inclined oddly, or if you are parked and/or navigating a tight space. Its handy thing to know how to do quickly and reliably, sure... but actually using it on the road for turning is silly as hell, and I bet if you actually use it on the road, that you end up having to straighten out your turn before you are done turning.
teabow1 wrote: Just to say though that for my scooter, practically on tight corners, turning the handlebar from a stopped position is a must if you want to negotiate the turn from a stop. The easier way, of course, is if the scooter is already angled towards the right when stopped.
I think the word practically may be misused here and I am not sure how you meant to word that sentence, but I will say that if you are meaning to imply that this maneuver is necessary to complete/initiate any or most turns on your scooter that is complete hogwash, and your wheel size is neither a factor nor problem. PLEASE don't stop with your scooter angled towards your turn, especially at traffic lights, for YOUR SAFETY. That's a terrible habit to make, I don't care what video or book tells you otherwise. If the car behind you doesn't stop, or the car behind the car behind you doesn't, and you are facing anywhere but straight ahead, you are more likely to be injured worse... a pile up just like that happened to a rider on this forum not too long ago... just before Xmas, I believe.
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Syd
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Post by Syd »

Isn't this horse dead yet?
The majority is always sane - Nessus
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Skootz Kabootz
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Post by Skootz Kabootz »

Syd wrote:Isn't this horse dead yet?
lol

why red is red...
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Syd
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Post by Syd »

Skootz Kabootz wrote:
Syd wrote:Isn't this horse dead yet?
lol

why red is red...
Oh crap! Is that what the saying is?

Can we all quit beating this red horse?
The majority is always sane - Nessus
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neotrotsky
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Post by neotrotsky »

Syd wrote:
Skootz Kabootz wrote:
Syd wrote:Isn't this horse dead yet?
lol

why red is red...
Oh crap! Is that what the saying is?

Can we all quit beating this red horse?
Well, the horse wouldn't be red if you guys would just stop flailing on it!

Wait... why are we worried about a red horse anyways?
"Earth" without Art is just "Eh"...

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illnoise
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Post by illnoise »

LunaP wrote:I was taught when I learned to drive, and not just by one person either, that when turning at an intersection, a proper and smooth turn is executed by first starting into the turn by pulling straight into the intersection, then turning your wheels towards where you want to go and accelerating into the turn. I understand that 80 or 90% of the time driving four wheels is totally different from driving two, but I do NOT think this is one of those times. Turning is turning, and that is a basic concept of driving pretty much anything.
Good analogy to car driving in that you don't do that in a car either, but don't forget that to turn a motorcycle, you COUNTERSTEER as you enter a turn, something that (again) few people learn to do properly unless they're a Proficient Motorcycling reader or take the MSF class.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering

Teabow, If you're not able to turn in a small radius, it's not your scooter, it's the way you're steering. your time would be much better spent practicing countersteering than the maneuver you describe. Even in the most simple of turns, even to swerve or change your position within a lane, you don't turn the handlebars in the direction of the turn, you actually gently nudge the bars in the direction OPPOSITE the turn and lean, which reduces your turning radius and allows the edge of the wheel to touch the ground, which allows you a tight and controlled turn. The explanations and illustrations in Proficient Motorcycling explain it far better than I do, it's entirely counterintuitive, but it works. Even a motorcycle racer in a hairpin rarely turns the handlebars more than a few degrees off center, they turn by countersteering and leaning.

photo:
http://v4.sportnetwork.net/mainadmin/im ... 914154.jpg

note that even in this tight turn, the wheel is practically straight, the rider is using the side of the tire to turn. You don't need to (and shouldn't) go to the 'knee down' extreme shown here, but it's the same principle. You do it when you ride a bicycle, too, you just don't think about it. When you DO think about it and understand how it works, it's a beautiful thing that makes tight turns much easier.

With proper countersteering technique, you should have no problem making a 180° turn within the width of a parking space. In fact, that's on the riding test in most states. In illinois, the width varies, it's a smaller radius for under 150, and a larger radius for over 150, but both are relatively narrow and at the DMV, I've seen many people struggle with that part because they're steering like they're driving a car, not a motorcycle.

Bb.
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Post by Raiderfn311 »

Ladies and gentlemen, I believe the horse is dead and needs a proper burial. Seriously, putting miles on your bike is the only way to learn. I(patting myself on back) have become very good at counter-steering and recognizing trouble before I jump in its lap. The later may be the best weapon I have in my arsenal. Good read to ALL the posters BTW. Alot of good advice there!
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Syd
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Post by Syd »

Raiderfn311 wrote:Ladies and gentlemen, I believe the horse is dead and needs a proper burial. Seriously, putting miles on your bike is the only way to learn. I(patting myself on back) have become very good at counter-steering and recognizing trouble before I jump in its lap. The later may be the best weapon I have in my arsenal. Good read to ALL the posters BTW. Alot of good advice there!
And yet we give it another whack.
The majority is always sane - Nessus
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