Let's play "What's the diagnosis?" FIXED!!!

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:13 am

Here's the scenario: I rode to work this morning, scooter was perfect. Better than perfect—fast, spunky, feeling just great. Has had a recent oil change, gear oil change, new sliders, just had a new belt installed. Everything is hunky dory. The only possible minor issue I've been monitoring is a slightly stronger smell of gas than usual and slightly reduced mpg. That's it.

Fast forward 10 hrs to when I came out of work to ride home: I saddle up, scooter starts just fine, engine sounds normal, I accelerate to head home, all feels normal... up until 25mph when the scooter starts to struggle, feels like it is bogging down, and struggles to accelerate to 40mph. I limp home struggling to maintain 40mph. The scooter idles normal, engine sounds normal, feels normal from a standing start, but once it hits roughly 25 - 35mph, there is no more power.

What's the diagnosis?

My guess is clogged main jet.

Winner gets bragging rights and a gold star.

easy · Post by **easy** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:22 am

thats a good guess I'll go with bad spark if more specific then a coil on the way out if you got fuel recently a saturated charcoal canister

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:36 am

OK, from what it sounds like, with no power and a consistent issue at a marked speed, I'm going to say there's an issue in the CVT. I'm going to side with the belt perhaps...??? If there were a fuel delivery issue, I would expect more of an inconsistent cruising speed would be mentioned.

Again, just a very rough guess without knowing more

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:44 am

My first thought was the CVT too since the belt was just recently changed. But why would it be fine in the AM and messed up in the evening? That didn't make sense to me. My thought was that the only thing that had changed from AM to PM was that the scooter cooled down. So what would be affected by that?

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:58 am

Skootz Kabootz wrote:My first thought was the CVT too since the belt was just recently changed. But why would it be fine in the AM and messed up in the evening? That didn't make sense to me. My thought was that the only thing that had changed from AM to PM was that the scooter cooled down. So what would be affected by that?

Retention nut on the variator coming lose on the ride? Out there kind of theory, but it sounds like the belt is not reaching peak diameter when the engine is given gas. The question would be are the revs of the engine high, or is the engine bogging down? That will tell us more.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:24 am

Yes, engine is bogging down. Feels like it is starved for fuel to me. I am 99% sure this is engine related.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:27 am

Carb

Running better than perfect can indicate a lean condition. It's not uncommon for a lean motor to run increadbly well right... especially on a 2T....right before they seize at like 65 mph.....don't ask how I know

Strong gas smell could indicate flooding. Lots of reasons for this...worn needle, cracked float

Could be a plugged jet or you just may be due for a rebuild. Have you checked your plug?

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:32 am

Haven't checked the plug. I'll do that tomorrow AM before I take it over to NoHo. It has a new plug but maybe plug wire came loose?

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:23 am

i bet someone swapped it for a 50cc when you weren't looking

gonna take a wild guess that makes sense to me and say a loose or slipping belt / clutch issue

agrogod · Post by **agrogod** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:57 am

I'll take a wild stab in the dark and say air in the fuel line.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:01 pm

JHScoot wrote:i bet someone swapped it for a 50cc when you weren't looking

That was going to be my diagnosis!

Rippinyarn · Post by **Rippinyarn** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:42 pm

I think that you are correct with the clogged main jet diagnosis. Time to get in there and see!

Do you run preventative doses of Sea Foam regularly?

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:47 pm

TVB wrote:
JHScoot wrote:i bet someone swapped it for a 50cc when you weren't looking
That was going to be my diagnosis!

ah yes, "great minds...."

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:09 pm

Rippinyarn wrote:I think that you are correct with the clogged main jet diagnosis. Time to get in there and see!

Do you run preventative doses of Sea Foam regularly?

I ran my first few tanks of Seafoam ever about a 6 weeks ago. Have been through about 10 tanks of gas since then. Perhaps the Seafoam loosened up some kind of schmutz which has now clogged things up.

I should say, my scooter recently passed the 20,000 mile mark, so a clogged jet after so many miles would not be outrageous. It has happened once before.

CROSSBOLT · Post by **CROSSBOLT** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:33 pm

Vent the gas cap and drain the crud from the vapor cannister as well as the float bowl. The discharge from the vapor cannister overflows to the float bowl and it contaminates the fuel. The "smog system" on the Buddy sucks. The cap needs to be vented and the smog system removed or bypassed. This is what I did on my wife's Buddy 150 and it has run great ever since. No more of the symptoms EXACTLY like you described.

Karl

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:53 pm

CROSSBOLT wrote:Vent the gas cap and drain the crud from the vapor cannister as well as the float bowl. The discharge from the vapor cannister overflows to the float bowl and it contaminates the fuel. The "smog system" on the Buddy sucks. The cap needs to be vented and the smog system removed or bypassed. This is what I did on my wife's Buddy 150 and it has run great ever since. No more of the symptoms EXACTLY like you described.

Karl

Nice. Fuel in the vapor canister would explain the gas smell too. Excellent suggestion.

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:03 pm

Skootz Kabootz wrote:
CROSSBOLT wrote:Vent the gas cap and drain the crud from the vapor cannister as well as the float bowl. The discharge from the vapor cannister overflows to the float bowl and it contaminates the fuel. The "smog system" on the Buddy sucks. The cap needs to be vented and the smog system removed or bypassed. This is what I did on my wife's Buddy 150 and it has run great ever since. No more of the symptoms EXACTLY like you described.

Karl
Nice. Fuel in the vapor canister would explain the gas smell too. Excellent suggestion.

that's nuts. who'd a thunk you would get vapor lock 21k miles in. it seems most everyone else gets it out of the gate if at all.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:25 pm

I'm voting fuel filter. (Unless it's been changed, of course; then I abstain)

CROSSBOLT · Post by **CROSSBOLT** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:45 pm

Jifer, I did miss the milage. It may not be the cap but the vapor can may be topped up with crud and contaminating the float bowl......

Karl

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:21 am

Well, just to drive me crazy... riding over to NoHo to get it fixed today, it started to run better. Figures. But while better, it's not great.

The boys at NoHo checked it out, rode it for a long while, checked transmission, clutch, and there are no problems there. They did not think the problem was jet related but by the time they got around to checking the carb/fuel system (I had just had a new belt put in so they started by checking the trans first), it was running OK, getting up to 60bmph, and I had to get in to work. So we left it at that.

For now, this much we know...

The drive train is fine, no one thinks it is jet related, the scooter while running better still lacks its usual zip and has nowhere near the torque it usually has. The engine basically just feels weak to me. The mechanic did note that my exhaust is, er, exhausted, and may not be generating sufficient back pressure. So I will be installing a new exhaust soon

For the time being, as the scooter is running well enough to get me to work (I hope), I will use it as and take it back to NoHo on Friday so they can have it for two days and figure it out once and for all.

Cross your fingers it hangs in there until Friday. And keep those guesses coming

My personal guess: At this point I really believe it is carb/fuel system related.

One side note... having my scooter in disrepair for the first time in four years is making me think about the benefit of owning two... and there is this really nice GTS300 Super on Craigslist... Hmmmm... let the rationalization begin!

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:34 am

^ did they check engine compression? idk if that is even important but i think it could be if its an engine problem

did you happen upon this guys thread? sounds like a similar problem, scoot has similar miles. no solution found as he never posted back but help was offered

topic21009.html

i honestly would not be disappointed at engine failure / wear in a Buddy with 20,000-30,000 miles. especially one rode long and hard like your own

i hope its not impending but its at 22,000, skootz. so its something to maybe consider even if not the case atm. some go longer, some go shorter. but unless you're bonegirl seems they all go

i do think over 22,000 is a lot, however. AND i recently read somewhere on these forums or another you were riding wide open for around oh, three hours or so recently!

might be time for yet another "How Many Miles On Your Buddy Thread"

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:40 pm

jijifer wrote:
Skootz Kabootz wrote:
CROSSBOLT wrote:Vent the gas cap and drain the crud from the vapor cannister as well as the float bowl. The discharge from the vapor cannister overflows to the float bowl and it contaminates the fuel. The "smog system" on the Buddy sucks. The cap needs to be vented and the smog system removed or bypassed. This is what I did on my wife's Buddy 150 and it has run great ever since. No more of the symptoms EXACTLY like you described.

Karl
Nice. Fuel in the vapor canister would explain the gas smell too. Excellent suggestion.
that's nuts. who'd a thunk you would get vapor lock 21k miles in. it seems most everyone else gets it out of the gate if at all.

The "vapor lock" most of us experience is more accurately called "vacuum lock." True vapor lock can happen regardless of age/miles/previous vacuum lock issues.

It has been fairly cool in the mornings, warming quickly. That and a well-worked, hot engine could cause it. But it would probably cause a stall rather than sustained poor performance.

No one's mentioned the fuel tap! Another possibility.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:44 pm

Yes..I am about to mention fuel tap !

...Eric beat me to it. Check the 2 piece rubber flap under the fuel tap and see if it has had gas fall on it ( it warps or discolors them).Could be a clogged fuel tap ( seen that on a kymco) or a leaky one at the spout. I want my gold star if thats it

50CC Cape Cod · Post by **50CC Cape Cod** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:52 am

Did check if there is an in line fuel filter the position it is at and if there is any sediment clogging the outflow? When revs up the fuel flow may not be sufficient. Did you check the vacuum line if it got pinched or has a crack or leak which could decrease fuel flow as well.
My understanding is the Sea-Foam will dissolve the crud and some other chemical cleaners may break the crud loose which can clog someplace else
in the fuel system.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:32 pm

verdict? prognosis? whats up with this scoot now?

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:53 pm

Skootz Kabootz wrote:...For the time being, as the scooter is running well enough to get me to work (I hope), I will use it as and take it back to NoHo on Friday so they can have it for two days and figure it out once and for all...

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:55 pm

Yeah, c'mon Skootz. Gold stars are on the line here! Maybe you could get Eric to change the winner's status from Member to Online Too Much, or something.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:01 pm

Believe me, I want this resolved too! If I did not have to commute to work everyday I would certainly not be riding the scooter as is. Really hoping it will hang in there for one more day!

For the winner, I will customize their avatar to include a big Gold Star with the words "I'm so awesome!", or "How do you like me now!" (Winner's choice)

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:38 am

Skootz Kabootz wrote:
One side note... having my scooter in disrepair for the first time in four years is making me think about the benefit of owning two... !

of course. or three. i think it is actually prudent as you can divide the miles up between 'em and cut the service intervals in half, at least. and its like i always tell friends when they ask what i want three scooters for....i ride almost everyday and three scooters = 1 car give or take concerning miles put on, etc. well, a used car, at least

so lets say a buddy reaches 30,000m, a vespa 300 50,000m and something or another else 40,000m? well thats 120,000 miles of riding and you still spent much less at point of purchase then you used to buying a new car. for a full time rider like you, at least 2 is a must imo

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:00 am

JHScoot wrote:
Skootz Kabootz wrote:
One side note... having my scooter in disrepair for the first time in four years is making me think about the benefit of owning two... !
of course. or three. i think it is actually prudent as you can divide the miles up between 'em and cut the service intervals in half, at least. and its like i always tell friends when they ask what i want three scooters for....i ride almost everyday and three scooters = 1 car give or take concerning miles put on, etc. well, a used car, at least

so lets say a buddy reaches 30,000m, a vespa 300 50,000m and something or another else 40,000m? well thats 120,000 miles of riding and you still spent much less at point of purchase then you used to buying a new car. for a full time rider like you, at least 2 is a must imo

The rationalization force is strong in this one...

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:01 am

Skootz Kabootz wrote:
JHScoot wrote:
Skootz Kabootz wrote:
One side note... having my scooter in disrepair for the first time in four years is making me think about the benefit of owning two... !
of course. or three. i think it is actually prudent as you can divide the miles up between 'em and cut the service intervals in half, at least. and its like i always tell friends when they ask what i want three scooters for....i ride almost everyday and three scooters = 1 car give or take concerning miles put on, etc. well, a used car, at least

so lets say a buddy reaches 30,000m, a vespa 300 50,000m and something or another else 40,000m? well thats 120,000 miles of riding and you still spent much less at point of purchase then you used to buying a new car. for a full time rider like you, at least 2 is a must imo
The rationalization force is strong in this one...

Two is easy......it took me a bit to rationalize having 7. Maybe 5 minutes or so.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:29 pm

Here's an oddball thought. Have you checked the CDI? It's rare that the PGO units go bad, but when used for a long time the internal solder points can heat up and cause the connections to intermittently fail. It's a quick swap out to test or replace. You could even go with one of the performance CDIs. They should have some extras in the shop or you can swap it out with one from any Buddy if you've got a buddy with a Buddy.

Can't hurt to try.

[edited my poor, poor typing]

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:10 pm

Good thought LMC. I'll mention it to NoHo when I take it in tomorrow morning. I'm not sure what the symptoms of a bad CDI are but the latest thing the scooter is doing is kind of having short on/off surges of power as opposed to a steady flow. When it surges it feels like its old self, when not, not. Quite bizarre. I can feel it most when relaxed on the throttle at about 40-45mph.

Can't wait to get this all figured out.

CROSSBOLT · Post by **CROSSBOLT** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:33 pm

The suspense is KILLING me!

Karl

ilektron · Post by **ilektron** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:51 am

I need to chime in here to qualify for bragging rights by voting for dirty carb.

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:54 pm

Since it is the winter I vote for SAD. A couple of hours under some UV lights will fix your scooter up.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:00 pm

jonlink wrote:Since it is the winter I vote for SAD. A couple of hours under some UV lights will fix your scooter up.

It's been sunny and high 60s-mid 70s here. SAD highly unlikely!

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:47 am

ericalm wrote:
jonlink wrote:Since it is the winter I vote for SAD. A couple of hours under some UV lights will fix your scooter up.
It's been sunny and high 60s-mid 70s here. SAD highly unlikely!

Sun or no sun, I'm SAD. I want my scooter running again!

easy · Post by **easy** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:44 pm

whatever it is i hope your up n running soon

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:48 am

ericalm wrote:
jonlink wrote:Since it is the winter I vote for SAD. A couple of hours under some UV lights will fix your scooter up.
It's been sunny and high 60s-mid 70s here. SAD highly unlikely!

The 8+ inches of snow made me extra SAD today, and now that I've read this I am also JEALOUS. (I'll work out that acronym later)

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:58 am

I'm sad too. Scooter is still in the shop being diagnosed. Sigh. Hoping to get it back to good health before the big Genuine ride this weekend.

NEWS FLASH! : I just got a call. The amazing mechanics at NoHo think they've got it. I'll take it for a long ride tomorrow and then, if all is well (drumroll please) the winning diagnosis will be announced!

Also, kudos to Mike and the gang at NoHo. They've been short a mechanic since last Friday and they still got it done. Props.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:49 am

Skootz Kabootz wrote:I'm sad too. Scooter is still in the shop being diagnosed. Sigh. Hoping to get it back to good health before the big Genuine ride this weekend.

Prod. Prod. Poke. AND PROD!

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:54 am

ericalm wrote:
Skootz Kabootz wrote:I'm sad too. Scooter is still in the shop being diagnosed. Sigh. Hoping to get it back to good health before the big Genuine ride this weekend.
Prod. Prod. Poke. AND PROD!

Ha! I was editing my post when you posted this! My fingers are doubly crossed now.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:52 am

Skootz Kabootz wrote:
ericalm wrote:
Skootz Kabootz wrote:I'm sad too. Scooter is still in the shop being diagnosed. Sigh. Hoping to get it back to good health before the big Genuine ride this weekend.
Prod. Prod. Poke. AND PROD!
Ha! I was editing my post when you posted this! My fingers are doubly crossed now.

What do they think the problem was?

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:40 pm

Skootz Kabootz wrote:I'm sad too. Scooter is still in the shop being diagnosed. Sigh. Hoping to get it back to good health before the big Genuine ride this weekend.

NEWS FLASH! : I just got a call. The amazing mechanics at NoHo think they've got it. I'll take it for a long ride tomorrow and then, if all is well (drumroll please) the winning diagnosis will be announced!

Also, kudos to Mike and the gang at NoHo. They've been short a mechanic since last Friday and they still got it done. Props.

good news. still need a "Find Skootz A New Scooter" thread, though. that would be fun

and.... inevitable

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:53 pm

The suspense is palpable

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:55 pm

my guess is....its something mechanical. or electrical. or electric / mechanical

yes, my deductive powers are astounding!

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:58 pm

On my way to NoHo for a long test ride now. Fingers are crossed.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:25 pm

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:12 pm

I know its been said but I say a carb issue. I hope the test ride goes well Justin.(Isnt it weird when people you dont know call you by your name?) It would be funny as hell if you asked what they did to get it running right and he replies, "Just put a good dose of Seafoam in the tank."