Rear rack mount broken

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:10 pm

The center mount point has actually broken *inside*. I haven't taken the panels off to see what the actual damage is inside, but it has definitely broken off of the frame.

What the hell? I thought that was supposed to be rock-solid?

My top-case, with 3/4helmet and rain gear, is 7.5 pounds. Plus the weight of the givi mounting plate and the rear rack itself, no way I'm over the 15 pounds I thought it was rated to support.

Do you guys think this would get covered under warranty if I brought it to the shop? Does anyone who has seen inside have an idea of what the damage would be, or how it could even be fixed?

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:20 pm

Wow, that sounds unusual.

could just be a fluke. how long has it been on there?

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:21 pm

skully93 wrote:Wow, that sounds unusual.

could just be a fluke. how long has it been on there?

Only been riding the scooter for a year. The top case has been on the entire time, but the helmet was not in it the entire time, but most of the time.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:01 pm

That is odd.
The couple of times I have had to load my scooter in my truck, I actually lifted the back end (the heavy end) by the grab bars or the rear rack once, whichever was installed.

Lagerhead · Post by **Lagerhead** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:53 am

It's called the "Tank Bracket".

Item #18 on this page...

http://www.scooterloungeonline.com/buddy125frame

Although it doesn't quite look like the drawing.

I've seen 3 break, two were within 2 years and covered by warranty. The third I just welded back together with some reinforcement.

All of ours started squeaking loudly for quite sometime before they actually broke.

It's not a hard job to change one but it is pretty involved and it's very easy to break the plastic tabs that hold the left and right body panels together where they join. (Behind the seat near the center rack mount.)

Good luck.

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:08 am

Lagerhead wrote:It's called the "Tank Bracket".

Item #18 on this page...

http://www.scooterloungeonline.com/buddy125frame

Although it doesn't quite look like the drawing.

I've seen 3 break, two were within 2 years and covered by warranty. The third I just welded back together with some reinforcement.

All of ours started squeaking loudly for quite sometime before they actually broke.

It's not a hard job to change one but it is pretty involved and it's very easy to break the plastic tabs that hold the left and right body panels together where they join. (Behind the seat near the center rack mount.)

Good luck.

I called my local shop. They said "Body damage is not covered by warranty". So far, they seem to think nothing is covered under warranty.

They did say they would submit it for warranty coverage though if I wanted them to.

Thanks for the info.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:58 am

Yikes!

I had no idea there was this other bracket that could break. I'll need to pay special attention to see if I'm hearing any noises now...

hcstrider · Post by **hcstrider** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:24 pm

Is the Fuel Tank Bracket what limits to load on the rear rack? The rear rack appears strong enough to support more than 10 - 15 lbs. so I figured that the weak point had to be somewhere else such as some part of the Buddy body which the rear rack gets mounted to is weak.

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:38 pm

hcstrider wrote:Is the Fuel Tank Bracket what limits to load on the rear rack? The rear rack appears strong enough to support more than 10 - 15 lbs. so I figured that the weak point had to be somewhere else such as some part of the Buddy body which the rear rack gets mounted to is weak.

Well, mine broke right at the bolt, right in the center. There is very little material on each side of the center mount point. No idea how.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:23 am

ed85379 wrote:
hcstrider wrote:Is the Fuel Tank Bracket what limits to load on the rear rack? The rear rack appears strong enough to support more than 10 - 15 lbs. so I figured that the weak point had to be somewhere else such as some part of the Buddy body which the rear rack gets mounted to is weak.
Well, mine broke right at the bolt, right in the center. There is very little material on each side of the center mount point. No idea how.

Can you post a close up picture?

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:46 am

michelle_7728 wrote:
ed85379 wrote:
hcstrider wrote:Is the Fuel Tank Bracket what limits to load on the rear rack? The rear rack appears strong enough to support more than 10 - 15 lbs. so I figured that the weak point had to be somewhere else such as some part of the Buddy body which the rear rack gets mounted to is weak.
Well, mine broke right at the bolt, right in the center. There is very little material on each side of the center mount point. No idea how.
Can you post a close up picture?

Yes. I can.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:57 am

Well that was definitely close up.

Thanks for the fast post!

Your picture makes it clear what you were saying about the bolt. Could you post another from maybe another foot or two back to show the damage on the Buddy itself?

Where I'm going with it is wondering what, if anything, can be done to beef this up, as it is not something I've heard of before and it's got me quite concerned. I'll want to look at mine and check it out as well.

Maybe if we (as a forum) can come up with some way to beef this up, we can post it in the technical forum so people are aware and can maybe be pro-active about it...if that's even feasible.

Your Blackjack is pretty new, is it not? Hopefully they will cover your fix under warranty....?

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:01 am

I'm on my third rear rack. The last one was lost at NOLA Amerivespa and pulled out one of the bolts. I chased the threads and was able to clean them up.

I now consider rear racks to have a 2 year life span. (One year on those "original" rear racks...anyone else remember them?

)

Your bolt doesn't look too bad. I would try chasing the mounting threads. When you put the new rack on remember....loctite (blue) is your friend!

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:50 pm

michelle_7728 wrote:Your picture makes it clear what you were saying about the bolt. Could you post another from maybe another foot or two back to show the damage on the Buddy itself?

No, I can't do that. The plastics are still on the scooter. The bouncing up and down after the break damaged the plastic around this bolt enough that I was able to pry it apart enough to slip this out, but I am not taking the panels off. That's up to the repair shop.

The mechanic did mention something about "maybe shoring it up with a metal plate" so I think he intends to do what you suggest. Anything you do will require a welding torch, of course.

I'll try to remember to ask for photos before and after.

BuddyRaton wrote:Your bolt doesn't look too bad. I would try chasing the mounting threads. When you put the new rack on remember....loctite (blue) is your friend!

That's like looking at someone's torn off hand and saying it doesn't look too bad, but you should make sure to trim the finger nails.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:10 pm

ed85379 wrote:
michelle_7728 wrote:Your picture makes it clear what you were saying about the bolt. Could you post another from maybe another foot or two back to show the damage on the Buddy itself?
No, I can't do that. The plastics are still on the scooter. The bouncing up and down after the break damaged the plastic around this bolt enough that I was able to pry it apart enough to slip this out, but I am not taking the panels off. That's up to the repair shop.

The mechanic did mention something about "maybe shoring it up with a metal plate" so I think he intends to do what you suggest. Anything you do will require a welding torch, of course.

I'll try to remember to ask for photos before and after.

BuddyRaton wrote:Your bolt doesn't look too bad. I would try chasing the mounting threads. When you put the new rack on remember....loctite (blue) is your friend!
That's like looking at someone's torn off hand and saying it doesn't look too bad, but you should make sure to trim the finger nails.

The bouncing up and down probably started BEFORE rack failure with the bolt vibrating loose...thus my suggestion for your reinstall.

Only trying to help you but responses like that are not encouraging when soliciting help. Your rack is toast, you need to replace it, forget chasing the threads, forget the loctite, slap another one on like the last one...good luck

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:13 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:
ed85379 wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:Your bolt doesn't look too bad. I would try chasing the mounting threads. When you put the new rack on remember....loctite (blue) is your friend!
That's like looking at someone's torn off hand and saying it doesn't look too bad, but you should make sure to trim the finger nails.

The bouncing up and down probably started BEFORE rack failure with the bolt vibrating loose...thus my suggestion for your reinstall.

Only trying to help you but responses like that are not encouraging when soliciting help. Your rack is toast, you need to replace it, forget chasing the threads, forget the loctite, slap another one on like the last one...good luck

Dude. It was a joke. Hense the smiley face at the end of it. Geez.

For the record though, the rack is fine. Only the bolt broke loose from the frame. I never lost the rack.

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:16 am

hey ed, thanks for posting this. I carry a ton of scheet in my milkcrate and have to deal with the bouncing/pothole mess you do. I haven't had issues that I've noticed. Looks like some investigatin' this weekend.

Lagerhead · Post by **Lagerhead** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:00 am

I found a good picture of one. (on ebay)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/G2-2007-Genuine ... es&vxp=mtr

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:29 am

Yikes - that's all that's holding the rack up? No wonder the weight rating is so low.

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:39 pm

Lagerhead wrote:I found a good picture of one. (on ebay)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/G2-2007-Genuine ... es&vxp=mtr

Makes me wonder if I should just order that and repair it myself, rather than paying the shop $75/hour and then not have full faith in the welding. Not to mention the 3-5 days I won't have my scooter.

Hmm, that is for a 2007 model though. I have a 2009. Wonder if it is the same.

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:14 pm

ed85379 wrote:
Lagerhead wrote:I found a good picture of one. (on ebay)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/G2-2007-Genuine ... es&vxp=mtr
Makes me wonder if I should just order that and repair it myself, rather than paying the shop $75/hour and then not have full faith in the welding. Not to mention the 3-5 days I won't have my scooter.

Hmm, that is for a 2007 model though. I have a 2009. Wonder if it is the same.

I called up Scooterworks/Genuine to see if the 2007 and 2009 would be the same, and also find out what they charge for it new.

Yes, it is the same part. Their price is $39. So it made more sense to buy it for $15+$12.50 from Ebay, so I just did.

This'll save me a lot of money and time. Thanks Lagerhead!

HowHH · Post by **HowHH** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:20 pm

Maybe even get it new. When I saw the ebay listing referenced upove I popped over to Scooterloungeonline.

They have the part new:

http://www.scooterloungeonline.com/buddy125frame

Part #18 P64215016000 FUEL TANK BRACKET, although somewhat confusing. They have the correct picture and part number, but refer to it as OIL COVER PLATE.

If you can get it new from them, scooterworks, or scooterwest, or even your dealer, you may be better off. The shipping should be about the same or less. With the used part you have no idea as to the what stresses were placed on the btacket by the original owner.

Last year I modified my bracket to lessen the stress that the top box places on the mounting bolts by hanging so far out. You can view pics and explanation here about 3/4 of the way down on the 1st page of the thread: viewtopic.php?t=20109&highlight=rack

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:24 pm

HowHH wrote:Maybe even get it new. When I saw the ebay listing referenced upove I popped over to Scooterloungeonline.

They have the part new:

http://www.scooterloungeonline.com/buddy125frame

Part #18 P64215016000 FUEL TANK BRACKET, although somewhat confusing. They have the correct picture and part number, but refer to it as OIL COVER PLATE.

If you can get it new from them, scooterworks, or scooterwest, or even your dealer, you may be better off. The shipping should be about the same or less. With the used part you have no idea as to the what stresses were placed on the btacket by the original owner.

See, I scrolled down on that page, looking for it, and couldn't find it, because the name was wrong. Damn. Oh well, I already ordered it from Ebay, so it is too late now. I'll risk the 1300 miles on the original scooter that one is from.

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:38 pm

Okay, so it is repaired, more or less, even though the part was not, in fact, the same as in my scooter. Perhaps the 150 is different, or perhaps the Blackjack is different, or perhaps the 2009 is different.

Basically, the bracket I got had an extra section over it, which is designed to go over the gas tank and attach to the two bolts that hold the seat down. This section was not in the original. There was no way for it to fit over the gas tank. Perhaps the tank is larger in my model, so they removed this section.

Fortunately, my upstairs neighbor, a bit of a gear-head, knows some mechanics, and we took a ride down there and borrowed a wiz to cut this extra portion off.

HowHH · Post by **HowHH** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:24 am

That broken bracket failed in a big way. Does the replacement look any more robust?

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:27 am

HowHH wrote:That broken bracket failed in a big way. Does the replacement look any more robust?

It is effectively exactly the same, once I cut the extra bracket part off to fit it.

The bracket was clearly in the process of breaking for quite some time. There must've been a weakness in the metal at some point, and it slowly tore itself apart from bumps and vibration.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:11 am

Wow. That is some break!

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:52 pm

michelle_7728 wrote:Wow. That is some break!

In your opinion, is there clearance, under the bracket, to weld or bolt an extra piece of steel to beef it up?

Yeah, certainly. Plenty of room under it. You could put cross-beams and stuff even. Or you could do what they apparently did in the 2007 125s and add a bracket to reach over the gas tank to bolt onto those two more spots, the part that I had to cut off. It didn't have enough length (and I didn't have proper tools) to re-position the bends to reach over the tank.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:45 pm

Intro to business op for someone! Someone on line here could work with a metal fabricator to either design something that can be added later to beef up the existing bracket, or design a replacement bracket that's already beefed up!

Seriously.

KABarash · Post by **KABarash** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:55 pm

All this talk I had to look at mine.......
Apparently since my new basket instal the 'acorn nut' that holds the rack to the bolt that broke on yours had gone missing and my tail bracket, or whatever you call it seems to be beefier than the pics you've shown. (or it may be just a trick of the eye or photography)
Note to self & others: Check the tightness of bolts, nuts &etc periodically. But don't over torque either....