what is the performance of the Buddy 170i ?

Len · Post by **Len** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:47 pm

considering getting a buddy and I would like to know from anyone who has one: what is their performance like?

How does it compare to the Stella 4T?

any info is helpful.

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:49 pm

What specifically do you want to know?

I have a 170i and it's a great machine.
There is a vast difference between the 170i and the Stella 4T, they are two totally different bikes.

Len · Post by **Len** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:59 pm

well, is it a comfortable ride?
can it cruse at 60-65 for long distance rides?
how about acceleration?
does it handle winding mountain roads well?

what drew you to select the buddy above other scooters available?

Do you do your own maintenance? if so is it difficult?

have you had any problems with it?

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:28 pm

Okay this is better. I'll put my answers in italics.

well, is it a comfortable ride? Yes. I went on a trip saturday that was about 3.5 hours each way and I was fine, my neck was a little stiff but that's because I have neck problems and helmets aren't the lightest things in the world. I stopped twice each way, to stretch and for snack/beverage and restroom purposes.

can it cruse at 60-65 for long distance rides? Yes and no. This scooter is not a cruiser and is not meant for long trips at WOT, it is also not particularly meant for highway use. However, much of my trip saturday was on roads with posted 50 and 55mph speed limits and I kept up just fine. The thing to keep in mind is that with these scooters, being so small and light, the weight of the rider, their gear, and whatever else they may be carrying can greatly effect performance. I am a small person, so it's not a lot of weight on the scooter, which makes it easier to keep it at higher speeds, a larger heavier person will have a harder time doing this, and will have to run the scooter at wider throttle positions. My 220lb boyfriend can get the Buddy up to about 50-55bmph and maintain that speed, while I can easily travel at 70bmph (on the same newly-paved, flat, open stretch of road). There are also many other factors that will effect speed, wind, road conditions, whether or not you have a windshield, how tall you are, etc etc etc.

how about acceleration? I can beat many large motorcycles up to 40mph, after that it seems to take it's time. I noticed that it is quicker and happier at temperatures above 50*F, it was quicker off the line, and able to hold speeds above 55 much easier. Again, this can vary with rider and load weight.

does it handle winding mountain roads well? Yes. Scooters this small and light, with tires as small as they are are great for agility. I have taken it through the Adirondacks a couple of times without a single problem. Just make sure you ride to your skill level, going around a turn too fast can easily result in catastrophe.

what drew you to select the buddy above other scooters available? Well, a few things.
1. Genuine is a great company, and they offer a 2 year warranty. They know the meaning of great customer service, and they really do make sure we "feel the love" as much as possible.
2. Modern Buddy, if you ever have a problem, there is usually someone here that can help, or at least point you in the right direction.
3. I have limited choices in my area, Vespa, Kymco or Genuine (kind of, I had to have my scooter ordered). The Vespa 150s were over priced and underpowered for the size and weight of the bike (they're also a lot more complicated mechanically). I liked the Kymcos, but the dealer I talked to was unsure if they were going to continue carrying the brand (at the time I didn't know that there is a dealer about 45 minutes north that also carries them)
4. Despite finding out that the dealer I bought my 170i from is a total d-bag and an untrustworthy shiester, I feel at ease working on this scooter myself. There are no special tools, or specific knowledge, other than basic mechanics, that you need to work on the Buddy.
5. I decided on the fuel injected model because I don't like to mess with carburetors, and I do ride through places in widely varying altitudes for which the computer can accommodate the air and fuel mix. In my experience with carbureted bikes and ATVs they have needed quite a bit of time to start up in the cold as well, I didn't want to wait if I needed to run out quick for something. (I am told however that the carbureted Buddies really only need a couple minutes). HOWEVER, because this scooter is an EFI, it does have a computer that needs to be plugged in for codes to be read and such, only a dealer can do this for you, I don't have a problem making the trip up to Burlington, VT to do this, but having a dealer, that I trust, closer to home would be nice.

Do you do your own maintenance? if so is it difficult? Yes I do. It's pretty simple. I think the hardest thing for me will be replacing the back tire when it comes time, from what I hear it's a pretty involved job, but it can be done, and I have a big muscly man to help me if I run into problems.

have you had any problems with it? No. There was a batch of bikes that went out with a programming error in the computer that caused the bikes to "think" they were over heating after a few minutes at WOT, the check engine light (CEL) would come on and the scooter would need to be stopped and cooled down before proceeding. There has since been an updated flash that has fixed this problem for most people. I have the Zephyr Silver number 468 manufactured in June of last year, and mine is just fine and dandy, no CEL problems whatsoever.

I love this scooter, I really do, it is a great, fun, and reliable machine. But if you are looking for something to ride at higher speeds for longer periods you should probably be looking for something bigger and beefier than a Buddy.
My boyfriend and I share a HD Sportster 1200L as he is buying a bigger motorcycle this spring. It's nice to have something that has a greater presence, and is stable on highways in addition to my 170i. Commuting to and from work, and around town is a breeze on the Buddy, long trips can be done, but you will need to take lower speed rated roads, and make more frequent stops for gas than you would on bigger bikes (with bigger gas tanks).

Len · Post by **Len** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:43 pm

thanks so much for your input. your guidance is helpful.

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:53 pm

No problem!

I'm sure you'll have a few others chime in with their experiences with both the 170i and the Stella 4T. It is the middle of a work day, I just happen to be babysitting an empty store with a computer that doesn't have limited internet restrictions and stuff.

Swordsman · Post by **Swordsman** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:23 pm

There's a thread over in the Stella section right now about someone that did a 2000 mile road trip on a Stella 4T.... going 50 mph the whole way. Sounds like that's all it had in it. As cool as the Stella is, I don't think you could ever wring 60 mph out of it, and if you did, it would probably fly all to pieces shortly thereafter.*

* I have zero experience with any Genuine brand scooters, so my opinions count for naught.

~SM

jd · Post by jd » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:41 pm

Frankly, if you want to do long-distance rides at 65 mph, you shouldn't be looking at either of these machines. That's not the market they're designed to serve. You need a heavier, more powerful and comfortable machine for that kind of cruising. That's not to say that you can't MAKE these two bikes do that, but it won't be very pleasant and you'll wish you'd gotten something else. And you'll end up not liking your purchase very much.

On rare occasion, I need to get my Buddy 125 up on the freeway for a short stretch, and it will hold 60 MPH nicely. I'm glad it can do that in a pinch, but I really wouldn't make a regular habit of freeway riding on such a small bike with tiny wheels, regardless of the size of its engine.

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:10 pm

I also ride/ own the Buddy 170I and can say that is a reliable scoot. Well written AWinn! I agree fully with everything written. The Stella is a good scoot too. A little slower than the 170I but reliable for a 30+ year old design. + the Stella is so customizable but requires a bit more mechanical skills. Both are great scoots.

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:16 pm

One of the best bargains for a 60-65mph for distance scooter would be a Sym HD200 Evo. Its top speed is 74mph and it has bigger wheels(more stable.) MSRP is $3399, so for about 4k you have have a new one.

batgirl101 · Post by **batgirl101** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:44 pm

as much as i wanted/needed mine to be good on the freeway, i learned the hard way it's just not a good idea. Being at the top of the range with no power left is just not fun. the good thing is i have a Vespa 250 when i need to do freeway

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:46 am

Len wrote:well, is it a comfortable ride?

My Buddy has a different engine, but otherwise it's essentially the same bike. I've taken it on some long road trips, and on occasion I've ridden it sun-up to sun-down, with stops for refueling, meals, and sight-seeing along the way. My only complaint at the end was that I was tired, from going sun-up to sun-down. OK, and ready to sit in a chair. Nice seat, plenty of room to move around. For what it's worth, I'm in my mid-40s.

have you had any problems with it?

Not yet. But I only have 13.5K miles on it.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:24 am

^ "only"

how long can a Buddy 50 go without engine trouble? i read 2 strokes wear out faster and top end rebuilds are the norm? but i also read most consider top end rebuilds on 50cc 2 strokes pretty much part of "standard" maintenance as its expected to need one and is fairly simple to do on a 2 stroke?

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:48 am

If you like, here's my review of the Stella 4T: topic17786.html

But as others have indicated, it's not going to meet your demands. The Stellas not great on mountain roads if you're going from low elevation to over 7,000 feet or so. I ride mine up in the canyons and mountains but it'll bog down when I go from sea level to the peaks.

Swordsman · Post by **Swordsman** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:07 pm

jd wrote:I really wouldn't make a regular habit of freeway riding on such a small bike with tiny wheels, regardless of the size of its engine.

I dunno, sounds kind of exciting!

My only hesitation would be the draft from passing tractor trailers. It was windy yesterday, and I was on my Ural. Even at ~700 lbs, it has a lot of surface area (that sidecar is like a giant steel sail). I was already wrestling with the wind, and then a tractor trailer passed by in the opposite direction. The draft was like an amplifier... when the gust slammed into me, it knocked me all over the place! Had I been on a Buddy, I'm pretty sure it would have literally lifted me off the road. This wasn't even a high speed area... 55 mph 2 lane highway.

~SM

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:05 pm

I do not like getting passed by semis. Not One Bit. Even when they appropriately do a full lane change to pass, the wake they produce in the air requires you to be ready for it. Do Not Like.

jd · Post by jd » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:14 pm

TVB wrote:I do not like getting passed by semis. Not One Bit. Even when they appropriately do a full lane change to pass, the wake they produce in the air requires you to be ready for it. Do Not Like.

So how do you REALLY feel?

Edwub · Post by **Edwub** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:56 pm

I suppose highway riding depends on where you live.

On my Blur 220, which is certainly bigger and heavier than a 170, I don't feel safe on the freeways. Ignoring the fact that I'm in LA and other drivers, the road itself can be scary.

For example, an angle change in the asphalt/roadway when you're passing over a bridge, or going from one section of paved freeway to another that was done at a different time. Those little transition bumps you *hear* in a car...you *feel* on a scoot.

if I'm going above 60mph, I literally bounce half an inch off of my seat. There's one or two I expect and are simply unavoidable in every lane. I haven't figured a way around taking off from these one-inch ramps. And I'd usually go 70ish mph, so it's a definite bounce. (my butt jumps up and smacks back down on the seat).

That kind of riding, imo, would be more suitable on a motorcycle. And I say that because I wish I had something to grip with my legs or something to straddle. I don't have much to brace against. I've honestly been scared over the 'what ifs' on those. (What if it's a special gust of wind? There's a curving overpass with one of these bumps and a wind gust, and I basically stopped using this route because of that).

Because the upright scooter seating position tweaks you out on those!!! And if it does it to my heavier, bigger Blur I can't imagine what it would do to a 150 or 170i. (Also, the wheel size, as someone mentioned)...

Knowing your roadways is important. If you can feel it when driving in your car, imagine it on your two-wheeled vehicle. Also, /agree to semi-trucks. Holy moly!

edit: also, I've read several times on this forum that most of the Buddy tires are *not* rated well at the higher speeds, such as 65mph.

Swordsman · Post by **Swordsman** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:42 pm

I still think I'd like to rock a Buddy on my highway commute (2-lane open country, 55 mph limit). The 150 I tested be-bopped along easily at 55-60 (indicated) mph. Yeah, it was a little twitchy, but not once did it cross my mind that it was scary or dangerous. Just different. I actually enjoyed that "dodgy" sensation.

I might change my tune if I ever nailed a pothole, though.

Slight tangent here: I've been trying to read up on the differences between the 150 and the 170i. Best I can tell, the top speed seems to be about the same across the board (125, 150, 170i). The difference is mostly in acceleration and climbing hills, correct?

~SM

jd · Post by jd » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:47 pm

The 170 has fuel injection, which lends to better driveability. It's not as though the 150 had problems with its carb, however.

The 170 replaced the 150, so they're not meant to be alternatives. The 170 just moved the bigger-engined Buddy further up-market from the 125. It justifies more price premium.

jd

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:02 pm

I've ridden the LA freeways often on my LX (which is kitted to a 190 and has a pretty good top speed), a GTS250 and, once recently, on my Stella 4T.

The big surprise for me is that at freeway speeds, the GTS 250 (12" wheels, much heavier scooter) wasn't that much more stable than my LX (11" front and 10" rear). Granted, my LX gained a lot of high speed handling and stability when I upped the tires (SO important for this kind of riding).

It's hard to adjust to that kind of riding on any two-wheeler. I'd be wary of getting too comfortable at those speeds.

I also discovered that riding like that simply isn't much fun, even on a 250. It's a bit more fun on the LX only because I like pushing that scoot as far as it will go every once in a while. But I've done a few-hundred-mile freeway ride on it and surface streets and small highways are a lot more fun to ride.

jd · Post by jd » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:06 pm

ericalm wrote:...surface streets and small highways are a lot more fun to ride.

Maybe that's because the bikes are designed for exactly that?

elaponte · Post by **elaponte** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:13 pm

I'd like to get the 170, but for original post, as far as deciding on which to get...You've been given really spot on advice, my advice/experience is only for the buddy 125 and extremeness dealt to this little bugger..Best advice i read here and concur is "know your roads" and purpose for either scooter (or motorcycle), and also know your limits, ride within them and be confident the Buddy can handle more.

I typically ride 5 miles to work, 5 mile back home for commuting from queens-midtown...this involves NYC Rush Hour traffic and a bridge and 90% of time lane splitting...the Buddy is skinny enough to do this no problem (not recommended as its illegal to lane split). Just mentioning that most motorcycles and other bigger scooters cant get through squeezes i get through easily(i slap my mirrors on occasion, but handle bars never touch).

Now,..yes...i can do 15-20 mile trips on the highway at WOT (um..i'm getting a solid 65-67mph flat out...if you dont get that on a 170 then twist harder) and i run it for at least 3-4miles at entire WOT,..alternating when i feel guilty for the abuse and for traffic.

Smallish tires are negligible.. I've had the Aprilia Sportcity 250 with big tires and I've had the Metro 50c with small tires...and again...NYC Street and Highways are worse than 3rd world countries as far as pot holes and mind boggling 2 1/2 inch high "speed veins" (I tell ya, NYC road repair guys are the sloppiest, dumbest guys that do NOT consider motorcyclists at all when they lay down road repairs that destroy a cars suspension let alone launch my ass off the seat, and both my wheels in the air)..anyway...these small wheels handle them fine...

I dont think you will abuse the scooter as much as i do mine (Pouring rain, 10degree winters, sweltering summers) but i've been riding for 18years (mostly Harley's, Ducatis, Sportbikes...love my scoot) and I'd say, enjoy your purchase and ride it with confidence...the Buddy handles curves well also....no knee tucks but you can get around a nice corner fairly easily leaned over..

jd wrote:The 170 has fuel injection, which lends to better driveability. It's not as though the 150 had problems with its carb, however.

The 170 replaced the 150, so they're not meant to be alternatives. The 170 just moved the bigger-engined Buddy further up-market from the 125. It justifies more price premium.

jd

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:26 pm

jd wrote:
ericalm wrote:...surface streets and small highways are a lot more fun to ride.
Maybe that's because the bikes are designed for exactly that?

The smaller ones, yes. That's one of many reasons I've soured on the GTS, which I once thought I wanted. What's the point of having one when all it would do is open up the kind of riding I don't really like doing?

That's not to say I wouldn't consider a large scooter for doing some touring on but it's not a priority. All of my day-to-day riding can be done on surface streets.

Edwub · Post by **Edwub** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:25 pm

For your reference, Eric, I'm talking about the 405 stretch between Sunset to Venice Blvd exits. (And the highway 10 onramps/offramps). I don't know how other highway stretches fare.

I also really like the "veins," hadn't heard it before. (Also glad to know I'm not the only bugger getting launched up)

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:48 pm

Edwub wrote:For your reference, Eric, I'm talking about the 405 stretch between Sunset to Venice Blvd exits. (And the highway 10 onramps/offramps). I don't know how other highway stretches fare.

I also really like the "veins," hadn't heard it before. (Also glad to know I'm not the only bugger getting launched up)

The good thing about the 405: Traffic's usually backed up and you can split for miles!

The bad thing(s): As soon as it clears, everyone goes 80mph until the next backup. Also, lots of construction areas with very narrow lanes now. And in some stretches some massive lane-marker bump thingies that are no fun to ride over. And… well, it's the 405.

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:48 pm

Edwub wrote:I also really like the "veins," hadn't heard it before. (Also glad to know I'm not the only bugger getting launched up)

I live off a a 35mph road that has two schools on it (of course in the direction that I take to and from work), and there are two veins before each school, crossing both lanes of traffic, and two veins after each school crossing both lanes. Even at 35 those suckers are nasty! I brace for them every time, sometimes I even lift my bum off the seat just so I don't get tossed (ATV style).
However, they really aren't that much better on the Sportster. It's nice to have something to squeeze my legs onto, but it is not more comfortable at all. In fact, it hurts my back more because of the sitting position on that beast.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:57 am

We get lots of potholes, and since parts of Denver are very flat, dips for drainage. Also lots of crowns on the roads....

I do what Ali does, and lift my butt up a bit. Seems to help. I'll probably hit my first 1k miles in a week. Looking forward to it breaking in, and the 150 is a lot different than it was for sure.

I'd imagine the 170i to be smooth!

Modern Buddy

what is the performance of the Buddy 170i ?

what is the performance of the Buddy 170i ?

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