Vespa 90

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:16 pm

Ok guys.
Kind of off topic for this forum, but I'll bet lots of you here know a good deal about these bikes so I'm throwing it out there.

I saw a CL ad for a Vespa 90, in pieces for $50. I bought it, lol. For better or worse it's mine now. No papers, but I had it's old black CA plate and DMV says it's fallen off their records so I just need to bring it in when I'm finished (in a month or so- KIDDING!)

I have like NO experience trying to build something like this, but honestly I've been going through the parts and looking at the parts/service manual and it looks like most everything that isn't here is available at Scooterwest.

My plan has been to just put it together. Nothing fancy, leave the body in it's glorious dented red paint/ rust patina. It may take me 5 years or so considering how much is going on in my life (school, work, other hobbies). The goal is more to learn about these machines I love than to make something I can actually register- though obviously I hope that will be the end result.

If you had such a thing- motor off, wheels off, NO wiring, basically a box of parts and the body. How would you order the rebuild? Wiring first? Motor? Or does it really matter?

Basically I just want to start with one bit at a time and familiarize myself with a system at a time.

On the one hand I feel overwhelmed when I look at it all, but when I sit down and read the book comparing pictures to the bits I see, nothing on its own looks _that_ complicated.

And where the heck do you get the doors for the battery side (yes it's one of those models)? And if you can't get one (as I suspect is the case) what can you do to close that up?

Thanks!

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:42 pm

If it is a complete basket case, nothing, or nearly nothing, attached to the body, and you have the slightest inkling in the back of your mind what it would look like restored (whatever that means). I would do the body work now. Even if you just primer it to prevent further rust. It will make you more likely to work on it. And if it doesn't, it will maybe make it worth $75 in a couple years when you decide you need it out of your garage!

Another thing I would do if it hasn't been done already is to clean everything. Again, the parts will keep longer, and it's so much easier to go digging around stuff that's not all encased in an oil-and-dirt coating. You can even do this while the body work is progressing.

And if you don't decide to do any bodywork, and leave it with the original patina, I would say rolling chassis first. Go is fun. Go fast is funner. Safely stopping and turning is required, so make sure the brakes and front end are done right before you start with the engine. That's my thought, anyway.

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:10 pm

Syd wrote: And if you don't decide to do any bodywork, and leave it with the original patina, I would say rolling chassis first. Go is fun. Go fast is funner. Safely stopping and turning is required, so make sure the brakes and front end are done right before you start with the engine. That's my thought, anyway.

OK. That sounds very reasonable, I'll start there.

Yeah, I'm going to skip the body work unless I find something really rusted through. To my taste, it looks better in it's current condition than fixed up to the level I can afford to do.

I'll try and put up pictures whenever I get done with something..

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:41 am

Yeah, first keep in mind a Vespa 90 isn't all that fast or valuable, so don't put a ridiculous amount of money into it. Rebuild it for fun and to learn.

I'm an idiot and I did a pretty decent job restoring a smallframe, a 125 Primavera. I didn't touch the engine, left that to someone who knew what he was doing, but I disassembled it, labeled everything carefully, did a little bit of the bodywork, got a painter to paint it* and put it all back together myself.

http://www.2strokebuzz.com/gallery/main ... temId=5912
http://www.2strokebuzz.com/gallery/main ... temId=5909
http://www.2strokebuzz.com/gallery/main ... temId=5916

* get a painter that's never done one before, they think it looks 'fun' and give you a low quote, then when they're done they'll swear to never do another one.

But original patina is best, yeah. I just repainted mine because someone had tried to rattlecan it and it looked terrible.

You'll need the blue Haynes manual, maybe the Darnell book, and definitely both the parts and service manuals.

first start by organizing and identifying everything. most parts are cheap and easy to find, but the costs add up and you can't ever find them all at the same place at the same time. I just paid $100 for a $7 brake cam from germany because minimum order for shipping was $100 ha.

Syd's got it. Get everything sorted and cleaned and rough it back together and see what's missing. Focus on one section at a time,it's rewarding to, say, get the front wheel/fork all together instead of jumping around all over the place and getting confused. Ignore the engine while you do that and take the frame and fork to an expert to see if it's straight, safe, and worth putting back together.

It goes on from there, ha, but that should get you started. There's nothing more rewarding than riding that thing down the street when it's finished. Take your time, do it right, and enjoy the process.

Bb.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:45 am

By the way, it took me six years. my original painter had a heart attack on the job and died and the frame was lost for six months, it was at his friend's shop but the other painter didn't know who it belonged to. A few of the parts were never found (the tank and taillight don't match everything else). I moved twice and lost parts in both moves. I've still never got the front brake just right (Just ordered every part in the system again to try to sort it out.) But it's a beauty, it won a couple awards, and even though I spent $850 on the bike, and a couple grand on parts and service and paint, and dozens of hours working on it, I'd never sell it for any money, which is good because it's not worth nearly what I put into it, ha.

Bb

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:52 am

illnoise wrote:http://www.2strokebuzz.com/gallery/main ... temId=5912
http://www.2strokebuzz.com/gallery/main ... temId=5909
http://www.2strokebuzz.com/gallery/main ... temId=5916

Beautiful looking scooter Illnoise! Nice job!

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:45 am

Thanks, my photography skills exceed my mechanic skills, so that helps, too. And it's been banged up a couple'a times since then. : (

If this batch of german parts gets the front brake working better, and/or if I can get the electrics working on my Vespa 150, I might ditch the Blur and go back to being a vintage snob. Modern conveniences are nice, but I miss the white-knuckle terror of riding a vintage bike.

Bb.

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:51 pm

Oh yeah! Nice work indeed!

Here are a few pictures of what my $50 got me.. I have a two more boxes of parts, lol.

Going to be fun for sure, and yep 6 years sounds about right- minimum. Every time I look at Scooterwest for parts I start dreaming about 5 speed transmissions and 130 cc kits etc.. but boy that could get expensive fast. I think I will limit this to a "use everything in the box that works" sort of task. After all it's really just a learning project.

I had the same idea in mind for the motor though. We'll probably just drop it off some time that we're in San Diego at Scooterwest and let them fix it up.

Only things missing that I know of at the moment:

seat

front fender

and both battery side door and engine side door..

My wife has put her foot down that my datsun (truck in the driveway) has to be first. It doesn't need much (tune up and battery and a stuck drivers side door) but she's starting to worry that we're turning into a junkyard.

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:56 pm

What do you think?

SHOULD I paint it? I had an idea that if I did, I'd just do a primer black job with red wheels like the Blackjack.. But I can't deny that I would miss the sight of this aged multilayered paint. I have no idea what I like about it- my wife calls it 'shabby chic'. haha.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:01 pm

You got a deal, IMHO! I really want one of these for my wife.

On the one hand, now's a good time to paint it. On the other, if you've no idea when you'll have it running again, it's a huge upfront cost. Personally, I love the look of a slightly battered and well-ridden old Vespa. On my PX125 project, I figure I'll get it running well before considering anything like a pricey paint job.

(Work accomplished so far on my project: bought a bunch of parts I don't need. Emailed someone about some more. Haven't ordered the parts I actually do need. PROGRESS!)

* get a painter that's never done one before, they think it looks 'fun' and give you a low quote, then when they're done they'll swear to never do another one.

EXACTLY what my mechanic told me. He said, "You can get any shop to paint a scooter once. Once."

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:58 pm

YEAH, that looks pretty solid, certainly worth every bit of $50, there are probably a few bits you could sell on ebay for $50 each if you give up!

You might wanna go ahead and paint it, but I'd do a lot of parts-sorting and parts-book-reading first to see what's missing, and what the costs of replacing the trashed parts are. You'll certainly need new tires, tubes, cables/wiring loom, and I can see a few bits LIKE OH THAT BRAKE DRUM that aren't worth cleaning/fixing. If it's missing, say, the carb, headlight, speedo, and seat, that's a few hundred bucks right there, and all the $1.25 bolts and rubber bumpers and such really add up fast.

And again, have someone w/experience look at the frame and fork to be certain they're not bent, or else you'll spend a few grand to be leaning 7 degrees to the right for the rest of your life.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:02 pm

To Eric's point, if you think you're gonna paint it, I'd go ahead and do it now (after confirming it's worth it). Even to slop it together to get it running is a lot of work, why do it twice. I like "patina" more than most people but you might be a little past that, hard to tell from the photos, maybe it'll clean up well. A little polishing compound and an electric buffer can go a long way, and the original paint/primer is tough as nails, new paint never holds up as well.

Of course, if you're gonna paint the frame, you need to polish/repaint/replace/re-chrome everything else, too, and that's a lot more work than just getting it functional.

Bb.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:51 pm

For more inspiration, here's the great Vespa 90 restoration the New Orleans Scooter Coop did for their Big Easy Weekender 5 raffle scooter:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 412&type=3

Many of the scooters they're found and brought back to life were ones damaged in Katrina.

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:56 am

Hey guys, thanks for helping me think through my start.
I guess I was kind of thinking that it would be worth doing no matter what, just because I'd learn so much. After considering everything said here, I can see the wisdom of having the body checked out first, just to make sure I don't need to start with a different bike before I'm in too deep.

Who would you take the body to to check on something like that? I'm fairly certain there's nobody local who could help me with that, but if there is someone in LA you'd recommend, that wouldn't be too far to drive..

Lokky · Post by **Lokky** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:41 am

Looks like a great project.

I want to get my hands on a vespa 50 special and trick it out to do 110km/h

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:39 am

Tom wrote:Who would you take the body to to check on something like that? I'm fairly certain there's nobody local who could help me with that, but if there is someone in LA you'd recommend, that wouldn't be too far to drive..

NoHo Scooters or Bar Italia are probably the closest shops to you that I could recommend.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:53 am

I was going to say NoHo, too. Is that shop in Orange still there? They were nice, when I visited like fifteen years ago, ha.

PM me your email address and I can send you two great articles from American Scooterist about checking the frame and fork. Neither has measurements for smallframes, but you can use the info and ask someone with a 'good' smallframe to take measurements for you. (Mine is def. bent, which is why I'm telling you to do this now, ha)

Bryan

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:06 am

Looking at the photos again, you can see in the side view, there appear to be creases in the legshield to the sides of the spare tire mounting holes (to both sides of the two dots on the bend of the center channel) and a crease in the center channel where the front of the center floor mat would be (near the rear brake pedal hole), that would all be indicative of a front-end collision.

Mine has buckles in the same place on the center channel, but they're pretty minor. I rode it for years without noticing any lean (Vespas tend to lean anyway because the engine is poorly balanced, but that's not an issue with smallies.) I never noticed that it pulled to one side a bit, until I'd been riding for 10+ years and bought a Blur and found out what a well-designed scooter should feel like, ha. Mine's not so bad that it's a huge risk, but if it was even a little bit worse, it could really affect your steering and handling. If it's bent straight back, and the fork's straight, it may not be an issue at all.

Bb.

redhandmoto · Post by **redhandmoto** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:11 am

illnoise wrote:By the way, it took me six years. my original painter had a heart attack on the job and died and the frame was lost for six months, it was at his friend's shop but the other painter didn't know who it belonged to. A few of the parts were never found (the tank and taillight don't match everything else). I moved twice and lost parts in both moves. I've still never got the front brake just right (Just ordered every part in the system again to try to sort it out.) But it's a beauty, it won a couple awards, and even though I spent $850 on the bike, and a couple grand on parts and service and paint, and dozens of hours working on it, I'd never sell it for any money, which is good because it's not worth nearly what I put into it, ha.

Bb

ah, not to thread-jack, mind, but...Holy Crap, Bb! That there bike is Moby-Effin'-Dick! And thou, Dude, Cap'n Ahab. Fer sher. What a story! What Inspiration! δόξα! Love it!

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:01 pm

illnoise wrote:I was going to say NoHo, too. Is that shop in Orange still there? They were nice, when I visited like fifteen years ago, ha.

Yup, Scootershop in Orange is still there, as is Massimo's, but both are much further south.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:04 pm

illnoise wrote:Looking at the photos again, you can see in the side view, there appear to be creases in the legshield to the sides of the spare tire mounting holes (to both sides of the two dots on the bend of the center channel) and a crease in the center channel where the front of the center floor mat would be (near the rear brake pedal hole), that would all be indicative of a front-end collision.

Indeed. Looks like a horizontal buckle across the center of the floorboard—you can see a "wave" in the runners. My first Stella had the same after a head-on.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:39 pm

redhandmoto wrote:That there bike is Moby-Effin'-Dick! And thou, Dude, Cap'n Ahab. Fer sher. What a story! What Inspiration!

Eh, I got off lucky, most restoration stories you hear are pretty insane. It's rarely fast, easy, or cheap!

I was really happy with how it turned out, and the whole project was super-educational and super-rewarding, but it's not concours-quality or anything. It's had several years of wear and tear, so if this package coming from Germany solves my long-running front brake woes, I'll just be happy to be able to ride it a lot more. Stopping is useful.

B.

ritcherw · Post by **ritcherw** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:28 am

looks like you have a lot of wok to do in there though it might not be as difficult as it looks like cause you said you didn't want to do something fancy on it so you might get to pull it off. although i suggest that you try to shine it on a bit just so you still get that shiny vespa feel to it.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:42 am

ritcherw wrote:…it might not be as difficult as it looks…

I'm sure it's every bit as difficult as it looks, and more, ha! But that's the fun of it!