125 vs 170

[chillas61210]

Debating between a 125 and 170 which would you guys recommend and why. I think that the FI is probably worth the difference. Anyone out there with a broken in 170 know the top speed? Just trying to decide if it is worth the extra $500

[JHScoot]

my unqualified opinion would say the 170 is worth it. if it were me and exactly $500 more and i had the cash i wouldn't even think twice about it

on a bit of a budget and don't mind a more basic scoot with lower top speed the 125 is great, too. but being you are looking at $3000+ scoots i have a feeling $500 may not affect you too much if you think its worth it

i think it is, myself. i think many will agree

[LunaP]

YES it is worth an extra 500.

If you were deciding between a 150 and a 170 I think it'd be a bit different. But I think a 125 and a 170 is a much bigger jump... if you add the consideration of the fuel injection into the mix, I think for only 500 more dollars you're getting the most for your money with the 170.

Of course, there's more to consider. Do you need the top speeds of the 170? Or would a 125 suit you lifestyle just as well? Will it bother you, not having a kickstart? Do you have your choice of colors you like or are we talking consignments? Do you get warranty with either? Stuff like that.

For the record, I LOVED my 170i. I'd get one again. I could hit 70 indicated on the interstate, against some wind, after being broken in... BUT, as everybody will tell you, it is NOT an interstate/touring vehicle.

I do not recommend doing that speed for more than a few miles. The buddy is light and has smaller wheels than a bigger capacity (200 or 300 cc) scoot, and is squirrely at that high a speed. I've taken it on a 200+ mile daytrip that involved the interstate. I stayed in the right lane and did 60 indicated (not a busy interstate, we were heading west into the country on a weekend), so it was more like 53mph by gps. It was a comfortable ride and it got me there, but it is NOT a touring scoot by any means.

I also would cheat and hop on the interstate to get home from work, at midnight when nobody would be on it. That's when I would push it a little more, because I was only going across town and wanted to get there faster.

Another thing to think about is the MPG. The genuine site implies that the mpg for the 125 is higher than the 170i. Under the specs for the 125 it says "90 plus" and for 170i it just says "90". I can tell you from personal experience, I drove mine to and from work consistently for four or five months before she and I got creamed by a careless cager, and she got consistently what I'd say was an average of at LEAST 85mpg. You can click on my fuelly banner if you like and take a look- the fuelups where I clock in at 70-something mpg is because I was riding 2-up for several weeks. Somebody else will have to chime in with the real-world gas mileage of a 125.

EDIT

to say that in the argument AGAINST the 170, it doesn't qualify you for this promotion from Genuine, although the 125 has to be pre-2011 and I think the dealer has to be participating.

[michelle_7728]

I had that decision to make recently and went with a second 125. My older 125 beats my husband's Piaggio Fly 150 off the line and keeps up with it WOT. My 125 is stock, has 5,200 miles on it, and does 162 on the freeway (172 indicated). I'm sure this new one will too, but with only 27 miles on it so far (I've had a bad cold for a couple of weeks ) I have to take it easy for now.

The issues I read about on the forum with WOT on the 170s had me concerned enough not to want to deal with it, even if it may not happen to everyone, and there is a fix for it (and I think there might be).

Plus I kinda like my solid colored scooter and a plain old fashioned carburetor. I'm sure I'll get blasted by a bunch of folks for sticking up for the 125 vs the 170, but oh well.

Now if you are into fuel injection, you like the racing stripes, and don't mind dealing with fixing the potential WOT issue (again it may only happen to a few people for all I know), then I have no doubt you will enjoy the heck out of the bike, as it IS a Buddy and they are all a blast to ride.

I do like the chocolate colored seat one of them has...wouldn't look good on my orange Buddy though....sigh.

[Lokky]

I've taken it on a 200+ mile daytrip that involved the interstate. I stayed in the right lane and did 60 indicated (not a busy interstate, we were heading west into the country on a weekend), so it was more like 53mph by gps.

Meanwhile I was behind slugging it at WOT the entire trip and barely keeping up

[JHScoot]

My 125 is stock, has 5,200 miles on it, and does 162 on the freeway (172 indicated)

hey Michelle what kinda favors you doing for the Genuine folks?

[Raiderfn311]

Hands down go for the 170i. Then alot of people will be jealous of you. Honestly, if its only 500 then go for it.

Edit-Go for the silver one. Strip the racing stripe off, and replace with as many Oakland Raider stickers as you can.

[LunaP]

I had that decision to make recently and went with a second 125. My older 125 beats my husband's Piaggio Fly 150 off the line and keeps up with it WOT. My 125 is stock, has 5,200 miles on it, and does 162 on the freeway (172 indicated). I'm sure this new one will too, but with only 27 miles on it so far (I've had a bad cold for a couple of weeks ) I have to take it easy for now.

The issues I read about on the forum with WOT on the 170s had me concerned enough not to want to deal with it, even if it may not happen to everyone, and there is a fix for it (and I think there might be).

Plus I kinda like my solid colored scooter and a plain old fashioned carburetor. I'm sure I'll get blasted by a bunch of folks for sticking up for the 125 vs the 170, but oh well.

Now if you are into fuel injection, you like the racing stripes, and don't mind dealing with fixing the potential WOT issue (again it may only happen to a few people for all I know), then I have no doubt you will enjoy the heck out of the bike, as it IS a Buddy and they are all a blast to ride.

I do like the chocolate colored seat one of them has...wouldn't look good on my orange Buddy though....sigh.

Yes, they did debut a fix for the 170's that had an engine light glitch. I however never had that issue.

You're definitely not the only one out there that prefers a carb and a kickstart. The only time Lokky got to point and laugh at me was when my battery got stolen- since mine was EFI, no battery = 200lb paperweight.

[JHScoot]

I have never tried to kick start a bike. Some look more difficult then others. A youtube video is about of a young woman trying to kick start one very desperately at a dealership. I believe it's an Italia? She must give it 30 tries before it fires? Perhaps more?

Can anyone tell me what might happen if you "kick" it while the engine is actually running? Would it have an adverse affect on anything? Might something break?

[chillas61210]

I think the 170 might be the way to go this is for my wife. I have a GTS 250 so I think the 170 might keep up better.

[jd]

I'm going to go against the grain here.

There is no doubt that the 170 is a great bike. It's owners seem to love it.

But here's the thing: My 125 will hit about 60 MPH, and that's already faster than I think anyone in his right mind should be riding this small-wheeled, small-framed scooter for any period of time. I don't even want to think about going 70 MPH on the same sized machine.

If I wanted a high-speed cruiser, I'd look for a larger scooter with more weight and larger wheels. To me, those are pre-requisites to adding more power.

I've never been in a situation where the 125 didn't have enough "get up and go" to accelerate or get out of the way. I rarely open the throttle fully on it as it is, so what would I do with the extra HP provided by the 170?

My advice is to ride a 125 and see if you're wanting for power. Maybe you weigh 250 lbs. and it matters. (I'm only about 160 lbs.) But unless you feel as though it's underpowered for you, I can't see how you can justify the extra money, unless "bragging rights" are important to you. (BTW, it's perfectly OK if they do, but if "bragging rights" were critical to me, I probably wouldn't be riding a little scooter around, anyway. )

The introduction of the 170 was a brilliant move on Genuine's part to squeeze a little more margin out of the Buddy product line. It creates a "first class" group of Buddy owners, and many people are willing to pay the premium to be part of that group. But other than feeling good about oneself because you've got the "better" engine, I'm not sure what benefit it really provides. Unless you REALLY want to ride 70 MPH on small 10" tires.

[chillas61210]

We have a 125 now she really wants the new potent pink so she was going to get that but then started thinking about the 170. So we are debating still.

[AWinn6889]

Now if you are into fuel injection, you like the racing stripes, and don't mind dealing with fixing the potential WOT issue (again it may only happen to a few people for all I know), then I have no doubt you will enjoy the heck out of the bike, as it IS a Buddy and they are all a blast to ride.

I do like the chocolate colored seat one of them has...wouldn't look good on my orange Buddy though....sigh.

Well, first of all, they don't all have racing stripes. The Mocha does not come with them, and now that Genuine is rolling out international 170i's there's much greater choice for colors (they also do not have stripes). Also, the stripes come off real easy with a little bit of patience, and a hair dryer.. so even if you want a silver one, or a BRG one, you don't have to love, or keep the stripes.
The WOT issue is no longer an issue for most. I have bike #468 and have yet to encounter any kind of problem. For those that have encountered the issue, a quick trip to the Genuine dealer/mechanic for a new ECU flash will fix that right up.
Last, both the Mocha and the BR Green have the brown seat... I'm still partial to black myself, but it definitely wouldn't look quite right on those two scoots.

[ryder1]

We have a 125 now she really wants the new potent pink so she was going to get that but then started thinking about the 170. So we are debating still.

Why not get the pink panels and put on the 170

[jd]

Color and style is obviously paramount here. I say get the pink 125 and spend the extra $500 on accessories to dress it up, and get a pink (or complementary color) helmet and maybe some new riding gear to go with the bike. I think she'd get a lot more value out of the stuff that adds to the look she wants. The extra power in the 170 is something she's much less likely to appreciate and enjoy on a daily basis.

Knowing my wife, who's had everything from a kitted Tomos moped to her 125 (which she adores), she'd never even notice the power difference in the 170 much. But she certainly does love her sparkly new helmet! LOL!

[ryder1]

Is the fuel injection worth it to you not having to mess with the carb?

Isn't there less winter prep with hr 170i?

[AWinn6889]

If you don't want to ever have to mess with a carb yourself, then yes. If you're going to have a dealer do it for you, then no not really.
The EFI is run off of an ECU, so if you do have some kind of problem, you have no choice but to go to a dealer for them to plug it in to at least read the codes... so that you may know what to fix if you don't have them fix it for you.
You have to think about those two things and weigh them against each other.

For me, I thought I had found a good dealer close by, I was definitely wrong, but by the time I had realized it was too late, the 170i was fully paid for and ordered... thinking back I probably should have just bought the new-ish BlackJack he had sitting in the showroom... just so I could 1. never have to go to the shop again, and 2. not have to travel 200 miles to see my next (way more awesome) Genuine dealer if I ran into issues.

As far as winter prep goes, Stabil (or something else) in the gas, battery tender, fresh oil, filter, and gear oil. If I remember correctly, pretty much the same goes for the carbureted models.. and not everyone does fresh oil, filter and gear oil (I have just been taught that it's a good idea if the bike is going to be sitting for a few months, less gunk in there).

[ryder1]

The EFI is run off of an ECU, so if you do have some kind of problem, you have no choice but to go to a dealer for them to plug it in to at least read the codes... so that you may know what to fix if you don't have them fix it for you.
You have to think about those two things and weigh them against each other.

As far as winter prep goes, Stabil (or something else) in the gas, battery tender, fresh oil, filter, and gear oil. If I remember correctly, pretty much the same goes for the carbureted models.. and not everyone does fresh oil, filter and gear oil (I have just been taught that it's a good idea if the bike is going to be sitting for a few months, less gunk in there).

I use Stabl all riding season, in Winter plug into battery tender...do not do the other three and in the Spring I have had problems with it starting even after putting new battery in. I do find the winters when I start it up every 3-4 weeks that helps come Spring riding season. (I do disconnect & reconnect to battery tender.)

Please ecplain what this is ....The EFI is run off of an ECU, so if you do have some kind of problem, you have no choice but to go to a dealer for them to plug it in to at least read the codes...

I take mine to the dealer for maintenance.

[AWinn6889]

Please ecplain what this is ....The EFI is run off of an ECU, so if you do have some kind of problem, you have no choice but to go to a dealer for them to plug it in to at least read the codes...

I take mine to the dealer for maintenance.

The fuel injection is run from a computer for which only the dealers have the cable and software to access the data that is stored on there (much like most cars). If your check engine light comes on you HAVE to take it to a dealer for them to plug your scooter into their computer to read/delete the codes (and fix the problem if you aren't going to do it yourself, again, like most cars).

If you have a carbureted motor, and a decent level of mechanical knowledge (or a resource like MB), you can fix everything on it yourself without ever having to take it to a dealer.
(Unless it's some mystery malfunction that you are completely stumped on, of course).

[jd]

This thread has been seriously hijacked.

[LunaP]

Now if you are into fuel injection, you like the racing stripes, and don't mind dealing with fixing the potential WOT issue (again it may only happen to a few people for all I know), then I have no doubt you will enjoy the heck out of the bike, as it IS a Buddy and they are all a blast to ride.

I do like the chocolate colored seat one of them has...wouldn't look good on my orange Buddy though....sigh.

Well, first of all, they don't all have racing stripes. The Mocha does not come with them, and now that Genuine is rolling out international 170i's there's much greater choice for colors (they also do not have stripes). Also, the stripes come off real easy with a little bit of patience, and a hair dryer.. so even if you want a silver one, or a BRG one, you don't have to love, or keep the stripes.
The WOT issue is no longer an issue for most. I have bike #468 and have yet to encounter any kind of problem. For those that have encountered the issue, a quick trip to the Genuine dealer/mechanic for a new ECU flash will fix that right up.
Last, both the Mocha and the BR Green have the brown seat... I'm still partial to black myself, but it definitely wouldn't look quite right on those two scoots.

You can always swap out the seats! I got the green, but HATED how the brown seat and handles looked on it. Switched it for black handlegrips and a white seat, I thought it looked way better with the racing stripes. I was darn tempted to get that Mocha, though... I love two-tone scoots, just not super partial to any of the Buddy color combos that they've come out with. Except the St. Tropez, I'd buy a St. Tropez. I've always liked blue. I had hoped they were doing a St Tropez 170, but the Genuine site only shows the Italia and Pamplona colors combos. Le sigh.

Pic:

IMG_1348 by Luna-P

[Bluduh]

May as well chime in. It's NOT about TOP speed. My Yamaha Vino 125 will cruise comfortably at 50-55 indicated. Except when the Texas wind is blowing (which is a LOT of the time).

Under windy conditions, the Vino 125 can barely reach 40-45 indicated. That's not enough to maintain a reliable defensive posture in the terrible (non-Interstate) traffic in this area. I bought a Buddy 170i specifically for this reason. They both have almost the identical weight, wheelbase, and seat height. But the 170i has a huge advantage in power that allows it to accelerate when going directly into the wind. I hardly notice the wind anymore.

The extra power also allows you to maintain a reasonable close distance to the car in front of you in traffic. I feel like this "dissuades" the idiot car drivers in this area from pulling out in front of you (or into you). The extra power simply gives you more control over where you want to be with respect to the traffic around you. I rarely exceed 50 indicated but some times you need to get to 45-50 quick and then back off to a lesser throttle setting. (you don't drive you car at WOT all the time either).

Disclaimer: I don't have a Buddy 125. I understand that the Buddy 125 is one of the fastest 125s made, so my comparison with my Vino 125 is probably not a very good one. Hope this helps. No flames intended.

[jd]

The extra power simply gives you more control over where you want to be with respect to the traffic around you.

I have to admit that you're making a great point. I have never been in a situation where the 125 wasn't more than enough to take care of any need I had, but I could be badly disappointed in a highly windy or hilly area.

[ryder1]

Please ecplain what this is ....The EFI is run off of an ECU, so if you do have some kind of problem, you have no choice but to go to a dealer for them to plug it in to at least read the codes...

I take mine to the dealer for maintenance.

The fuel injection is run from a computer for which only the dealers have the cable and software to access the data that is stored on there (much like most cars). If your check engine light comes on you HAVE to take it to a dealer for them to plug your scooter into their computer to read/delete the codes (and fix the problem if you aren't going to do it yourself, again, like most cars).

If you have a carbureted motor, and a decent level of mechanical knowledge (or a resource like MB), you can fix everything on it yourself without ever having to take it to a dealer.
(Unless it's some mystery malfunction that you are completely stumped on, of course).

Does that happen very often that it needs to be checked?
Or not routine?

I understand what you are saying that there is no option but to take it to the dealer.
I was hoping to get away from the carb and lessen my trips to dealer. Can't do carb by myself for health reasons.

[AWinn6889]

Does that happen very often that it needs to be checked?
Or not routine?

I understand what you are saying that there is no option but to take it to the dealer.
I was hoping to get away from the carb and lessen my trips to dealer. Can't do carb by myself for health reasons.

As long as you take care of the scoot properly it should only need to be checked routinely. However, I was told by the awesome dealer in VT that the only thing they really check in the computer is the fuel/air mix as far as routine maintenance goes, which can also be checked by taking a look at the spark plug.

The only time that I may need to make the trip back up to Burlington with this scoot is if the CEL comes on, which I doubt will happen (at least within the next two years before I move to AZ). Otherwise I plan on taking it up there for a weekend trip at some point over the summer.

[ryder1]

Does that happen very often that it needs to be checked?
Or not routine?

I understand what you are saying that there is no option but to take it to the dealer.
I was hoping to get away from the carb and lessen my trips to dealer. Can't do carb by myself for health reasons.

As long as you take care of the scoot properly it should only need to be checked routinely. However, I was told by the awesome dealer in VT that the only thing they really check in the computer is the fuel/air mix as far as routine maintenance goes, which can also be checked by taking a look at the spark plug.

Thank you for this information.

The only time that I may need to make the trip back up to Burlington with this scoot is if the CEL comes on, which I doubt will happen (at least within the next two years before I move to AZ). Otherwise I plan on taking it up there for a weekend trip at some point over the summer.

[chillas61210]

The great debate has been decided we are keeping the 125 we already have! Going to see what the next few years bring in the way of new scooters in the genuine line or new colors on the 170.

[pugbuddy]

The WOT issue is no longer an issue for most. I have bike #468 and have yet to encounter any kind of problem. For those that have encountered the issue, a quick trip to the Genuine dealer/mechanic for a new ECU flash will fix that right up.

I'm not clear on what the "ECU flash" actually is (not very techy here). When I had my 170, the dealer checked the code but couldn't fix the issue. I've gone back to my 125 and I'm content to hit 60-65 as needed on the state highways but I'm curious as to what exactly the fix is for the 170 WOT issue....

[ryder1]

.
.

You can always swap out the seats! I got the green, but HATED how the brown seat and handles looked on it. Switched it for black handlegrips and a white seat, I thought it looked way better with the racing stripes. .

Pic:

IMG_1348 by Luna-P

This is much more appealing with the white seat. Do you have a clear cover for the seat or how do you keep the white so white?

[JHScoot]

May as well chime in. It's NOT about TOP speed. My Yamaha Vino 125 will cruise comfortably at 50-55 indicated. Except when the Texas wind is blowing (which is a LOT of the time).

Under windy conditions, the Vino 125 can barely reach 40-45 indicated. That's not enough to maintain a reliable defensive posture in the terrible (non-Interstate) traffic in this area. I bought a Buddy 170i specifically for this reason. They both have almost the identical weight, wheelbase, and seat height. But the 170i has a huge advantage in power that allows it to accelerate when going directly into the wind. I hardly notice the wind anymore.

The extra power also allows you to maintain a reasonable close distance to the car in front of you in traffic. I feel like this "dissuades" the idiot car drivers in this area from pulling out in front of you (or into you). The extra power simply gives you more control over where you want to be with respect to the traffic around you. I rarely exceed 50 indicated but some times you need to get to 45-50 quick and then back off to a lesser throttle setting. (you don't drive you car at WOT all the time either).

Disclaimer: I don't have a Buddy 125. I understand that the Buddy 125 is one of the fastest 125s made, so my comparison with my Vino 125 is probably not a very good one. Hope this helps. No flames intended.

I think your post was very helpful. It helps people understand why they should not get a Yamaha Vino if any kind of scooter oomph is required. It is a pokey 125cc, to be certain.

Just saying as a scooterist who rides an Agility 125 regularly. Yamaha has allowed the Vino to become a bit of a relic imo.

[LunaP]

You can always swap out the seats! I got the green, but HATED how the brown seat and handles looked on it. Switched it for black handlegrips and a white seat, I thought it looked way better with the racing stripes. .

*pic removed for quote*

This is much more appealing with the white seat. Do you have a clear cover for the seat or how do you keep the white so white?

I didn't have too much trouble with it, BUT I always recommend this when seat cleaning comes up:
Meguiar's Leather Cleaner/Conditioner
I found it at an Advance Auto Parts by accident, it was on their clearance shelving and I bought more than one bottle since I didn't know how easy it'd be to find it again. It's a totally non-slip formula, so you can clean on the go, then jump right on if you need to... and don't have to rely on slippery conditioning products like Armor All. Lokky also uses it to clean the Stella's seat even though it's black.

[ryder1]

I didn't have too much trouble with it, BUT I always recommend this when seat cleaning comes up:
Meguiar's Leather Cleaner/Conditioner
I found it at an Advance Auto Parts by accident, it was on their clearance shelving and I bought more than one bottle since I didn't know how easy it'd be to find it again. It's a totally non-slip formula, so you can clean on the go, then jump right on if you need to... and don't have to rely on slippery conditioning products like Armor All. Lokky also uses it to clean the Stella's seat even though it's black.

Great tip! Thank you for recommending it.

[michelle_7728]

My 125 is stock, has 5,200 miles on it, and does 162 on the freeway (172 indicated)

hey Michelle what kinda favors you doing for the Genuine folks?

LOL.

DOH! Obviously a typo. I'd have to have a super-sonic Buddy to do 162mph! I guess I got the 170 model in my head as I was typing.

Again, no offense to those owners with 170s. I'm sure they are a very nice bike--but just like those with Buddy 50s they really like, I'm partial to my 125s.

[viney266]

We have a 125 now she really wants the new potent pink so she was going to get that but then started thinking about the 170. So we are debating still.

Why not get the pink panels and put on the 170

x2! ...You would have a unique bike!

[AWinn6889]

The WOT issue is no longer an issue for most. I have bike #468 and have yet to encounter any kind of problem. For those that have encountered the issue, a quick trip to the Genuine dealer/mechanic for a new ECU flash will fix that right up.

I'm not clear on what the "ECU flash" actually is (not very techy here). When I had my 170, the dealer checked the code but couldn't fix the issue. I've gone back to my 125 and I'm content to hit 60-65 as needed on the state highways but I'm curious as to what exactly the fix is for the 170 WOT issue....

An ECU flash is a software upgrade for the bike's computer. Maybe when you had brought yours to the dealer they weren't aware of the problem and/or hadn't yet received the news/fix from Genuine. The details about the fix itself aren't terribly obvious and there really isn't a solid description of it anywhere, but what I have figured is that either the bikes were, in fact, overheating due to a fuel mix issue, or the computer thought they were overheating, and put the bike into limp mode to keep the rider from pushing it too far. Either way, it fixed the "overheating" issue.

[Southerner]

I have never tried to kick start a bike. Some look more difficult then others. A youtube video is about of a young woman trying to kick start one very desperately at a dealership. I believe it's an Italia? She must give it 30 tries before it fires? Perhaps more?

Can anyone tell me what might happen if you "kick" it while the engine is actually running? Would it have an adverse affect on anything? Might something break?

Kickstarting a small displacement bike is no big deal at all IF the bike is in good running order. Kicking over a cold 4-stroke is more of a challenge but once you get the feel for the particular bike (and they're all a little bit unique), that's not much more of a problem. You learn how to set the choke, if and when to give it a little throttle, etc. A cold machine might take you a few kicks but it should only be just a few.

30 tries? Either she was doing something wrong or something on the scoot was out of whack.