Electric Start Not Starting At End of Day

corby76 · Post by **corby76** » Sun May 20, 2012 3:00 am

I have a Genuine Buddy 50 and I'm having huge problems with the electric start. The problem is there is no rhyme or reason to when the electric start works and when it doesn't. Usually the scooter starts in the morning with no issues as it does for the next 3-5 times in the day, after that it's a crap shot if it's going to start or not. I don't know why but every single night for the past month, the scooter has not started. I have to turn to the kick start which is rarely successful before 10 try's (to the point my foot is bleeding from this attempt).

The scooter has been looked at by the people responsible for the warranty and also the only guy on the island worth his salt in scooter repairs - both parties have found nothing wrong with the scooter but they have both replaced the sparkplug (within weeks of each other so I'm not convinced it needed a new one either time).

It turns over - it's not the battery, that's been tested. It sounds likes its flooded, although I don't think I'm flooding it.

This situation is totally infuriating - I would be greatly appreciative if anyone knew anything I could do or have replaced. The scooter is still under warranty till August - so I'm thinking Buddy should just replace the entire starter system.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sun May 20, 2012 4:18 am

Just so someone else might help you I want to clear up the question. Are you saying you are hitting the starter button and get only silence in return, or is the electric start engaging, the engine cranking etc, and just won't turn over and start?

My impression from what you say is the electric starter is engaging, but the scooter will not start. You kick it and it's hard to start to the point of your foot bleeding. So it's a hard to start scooter, if this is the case.

I will go out on a limb and say vapor lock for one reason or another at "the end of the day."

I am not a mechanic. I have no idea of these things. But this is a common problem with Buddy starts. Next time you try to start it take off or pop the gas cap. Ride it like that too. Do the whole day through, see if the starting prob is solved.

BUT, if the starter isn't doing ANYTHING I have no idea

corby76 · Post by **corby76** » Sun May 20, 2012 5:00 am

Excellent I will give that a go tonight.

And yes, you are correct - I'm pushing the electric start, it's engaging just not turning over. Thanks so much.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sun May 20, 2012 11:06 am

Yes well I am sure more help will come your way as you post. This board slows on weekends and certain hours. Some of us have more flexible schedules then others so may be around at different times to help.

So my little pitch in is the vapor lock issue. Not sure if its problematic across all Buddy models, but I am fairly sure so. Same tale of starting, no starting, hard starting, stalling. At random times and otherwise.

The permanent fix is to get a vented gas cap. A quick way to know for certain if it is this minor issue causing a big problem is to simply loosen or remove it while starting the scoot, and some would suggest riding. But if gas splash could be an issue, be careful. I think loosening the cap is just as well.

But sure just pop the cap off and try to turn it over. You never know!

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sun May 20, 2012 11:47 am

Vacuum lock on the gas tank is definitely a possibility, and easy enough to test.

Another is a battery that's not getting charged enough. You mention starting it multiple times during the day, which sounds like you might be making short trips here and there. The Buddy's engine doesn't produce a lot of surplus power to charge the battery, so it might not be getting recharged enough during those short rides. You could test this hypothesis by riding it for a good half-hour or so after kickstarting it in the afternoon, and see if the electric start works after that. If this is the problem, a newer battery (more easily charged) might help. Or hooking it up to a charger overnight* might get it off to a better start in the morning with a full charge rather than just enough for a few starts.

Another possible culprit if the battery isn't getting charged enough is the charging system itself. But that's harder to fix, so I'd investigate the battery first.

*Battery Tender Jr is the one you want

velobuff · Post by **velobuff** » Sun May 20, 2012 1:17 pm

I'd check the battery like TVB said. I had a aprilia sr50 that would turn over but it start over the winter when I didn't have it on the battery tender and the battery was weak - even though the headlight & all other lights would turn on. Weird. Id put it on the tender which would go into harge mode and wait a few minuted and it would fire right up!

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Mon May 21, 2012 2:55 pm

corby76 wrote: It turns over - it's not the battery, that's been tested. It sounds likes its flooded, although I don't think I'm flooding it.

corby76 wrote:I'm pushing the electric start, it's engaging just not turning over. Thanks so much.

Which is is? Does it turn over or not?

Not to be pedantic, but there's a lot of misuse of the term "turning over". That means the engine is cranking, not that the engine has started.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Mon May 21, 2012 3:05 pm

I turned over my engine once. All the oil fell out

Pretty sure its turning over / cranking, just not firing up.

Or does that mean something else, too?

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Mon May 21, 2012 3:53 pm

Corby76, I think your absolute best shot at getting this problem sorted would be to run all your errands one day then park your scooter at your dealer and let them try to start it in the evening before they close up shop for the night. Sometimes a mechanic has to actually see a problem for themselves to pick up on subtle clues as to what is going on. It sounds to me like your dealer is trying to work with you. Maybe they would be willing to give this a shot. Or maybe one of their mechanics can ride the scooter for a couple days and see if they can get the problem to happen. If they're not thrilled about holding on to the scooter, maybe you could park it there and come back and try to start it in front of them while they watch. Something like that. Just politely see if you can get them to work with you on a solution.

For the record, I'm guessing that you overfilled the gas tank, flooded the tank ventilation plumbing, and now when the temperature drops you're experiencing a situation where the tank is actually trying to suck fuel back up from the carburetor. The next time your scooter won't start at night, you can quickly discover whether this is the case by simply opening your gas cap to relieve the pressure, then try starting it. If it miraculously starts, you've found your problem and you need to advise your dealer so they can fix it.

Good Luck. Please let us know what the solution turns out to be.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Mon May 21, 2012 4:51 pm

JettaKnight wrote:Not to be pedantic, but there's a lot of misuse of the term "turning over". That means the engine is cranking, not that the engine has started.

Not exactly. To some, maybe more than a few, 'turn over' means 'started'.

But regardless, it's good to clarify. I try to use 'cranking' and 'running' myself, because of such [regional] disparities.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon May 21, 2012 8:25 pm

Unlikely to be vacuum lock if this happens repeatedly.

If you run down the battery during the day and it's not getting recharged, it may start up okay after sitting overnight.

I'm guessing that it may be either the stator or CDI, or simply that you're doing a lot of short trips and starting it a lot and it's not having enough time to recharge. You can get a lot of starts out of a fully charged battery, though.

As for kickstarting, it's VERY EASY once you have the method down. Even the smallest, frailest, weakest-legged riders can do it after some practice. A Buddy can start in one or two kicks.

Short and in the dark, but what's important are the kicker's position next to the scooter and the leg action.
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Put the scooter on the center stand. (NEVER start, kick or electric, on the side stand!) Stand to the left side, with your hip/leg even with the kickstart lever. Place one hand on the handlebar and one on the grab rail behind the seat. Give it a tiny bit of gas via the throttle. Place your foot on the lever, slowly press down until you feel the resistance. Then in one, single motion, kick downward. It's not stomping, and not repeatedly kicking the heck out of it until it starts!

There's a video of a guy standing behind the scooter and using his left foot. Works for him, but not very stable. And there are a few videos that are just embarrassing for all involved.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Mon May 21, 2012 8:31 pm

JHScoot wrote:I turned over my engine once. All the oil fell out

Holy Crud!
This is exactly what happened when I changed the oil in my lawn mower yesterday! I tipped it up on the side away from the carb in order to reach the drain plug and had a huge oil spill in my garage because I didn't re-tighten the oil filler/dipstick on top of the engine.