Backaches

vincegotera · Post by **vincegotera** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:56 pm

Hello, friends. I'm a newbie here.

My wife is the one who owns a stock Buddy 50. Here's the problem I'm trying to help her with: whenever she rides she gets really bad backaches. For days. So she hasn't been riding much.

Anyone have a suggestion? Someone told me a gel seat pad would absorb enough shock. Have you had experiences with a gel seat pad?

Is there some aftermarket product that might do the trick? Some kind of shock absorber thing to install under the seat, maybe?

Someone else suggested getting better shocks on the Buddy, period. If that's an option, how and where could I get those? I didn't find anything like that in Scooterworks.

Thanks a lot.

Beamster · Post by **Beamster** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:06 am

We have a number of bikes and I find that the lighter weight ones aggravate my touchy back.

There is not enough weight to dampen the road shock and they're too flickable so the back gets a significant workout. No matter how good the shocks lightweight things are going to get beat up an d bounced around. Ever ride in a heavyweight vehicle like a Tahoe or grandad's 60's Caddy? You never feel a thing as the suspension bounces about.

The solution is to strength and keep the back flexible and/or a heavier bike.
For me the 400 pound bike is about the lower end and the 500 pound bike a delight. Heavier than that is as bad as lighter because they take so much body english to make the turns as well as moving it around the driveway.

So maybe try a smaller motorcycle to start.
They have them for use in our state's driver training programs at the community colleges, which is a good program in and of itself.

spr0k3t · Post by **spr0k3t** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:22 am

I would start with a rear shock and replacing the foam in the seat. Look for a reputable upholster who can do motorcycle/scooter seats well. Another option would be to fork over some extra money for an air-hawk seat cushion (worth their weight in gold if you ask me). You may not find a set of front forks, but at least that will help with the road grind problem.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:04 am

It might not be the bumps, but the riding posture. Depending on the length of your legs/torso/arms, how far forward you sit, and where you put your feet, your posture sitting on the scooter can vary a lot. Has she tried sitting further back, further forward, or with her feet in a different location?

One specific suggestion: Most of the time I find myself putting my feet on the fake-metal foot grips on either side of the seat. In this position I'm not so much in the posture I'd use for sitting on a chair, but more like riding a horse. By pushing a little with my legs, I'm balanced to lift my butt slightly off the seat when going over train tracks or when I fail to miss a pothole, which might help if it is a problem with bumps.

Another thing that might help is stretching at stop lights: if you have a few seconds, put your feet down and stand up. I find it essential when traveling long distances... it might help her even if she's not.

No guarantees that any of this will help, of course. But they don't cost anything to try, before investing in new gear.

gr8dog · Post by **gr8dog** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:29 am

A seat cushion will redistribute weight to relieve pressure points. They can help with sore spots and tailbone pain. They won't likely do much if anything to help with back pain. I use an AirHawk. While it helps with comfort I still need to take breaks on long rides to relieve the back stress. Five to ten minutes for every hour does the trick.

Posture has already been mentioned, that is right on target. She could also try shifting feet position and seating position (forward and back a little) during rides. All this helps me. Sitting in one fixed position for an extended time gets to my back. Frequent breaks, changing positions frequently and correct riding posture can help a lot. A cushion could also provide relief. Do research first. A bad seat cushion can make things worse.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:24 am

TVB wrote:It might not be the bumps, but the riding posture.

I agree that this could be the problem. Especially if a person does not ride a lot, they need to be very sensitive to their posture while riding. If nothing else, might be worth borrowing and wearing a back brace/support for a bit. If it makes a difference, it is likely a posture issue.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:55 am

Wow. Bummer. I can relate with a bad back. I have degradation with L4/L5 and when I first got my Buddy, until I learned how to take it off / put it on the center stand correctly, my back bugged me a bit.

However, once I got that down I have had 0 back issues...even with a 7 hour stretch of off again/on again riding (basically just stoppying to gas up, stretch, eat, or bio break, every 50 or so miles.

Maybe like the others have suggested, just changing up your posture might help.

I remember when I was having really bad back issues it took a combination of things to get me better: posture, ice, chiropractic, ice, back stretches, ice, and special chairs at work, at home, and when I drove my car...and did I mention ice?

Not cheap (except for the posture, stretching and ice), but that combo has been invaluable for me.

Good luck!

Ian-Pix · Post by **Ian-Pix** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:42 am

+1 for ice - especially if the pain lingers

Is your wife relaxed on the bike? Tensed posture does not help.
Have you guys considered seeing a physical therapist for core exercise and ergonomic guidance? 1-2 visits for self-care training can help tremendously

KABarash · Post by **KABarash** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:45 am

Dooglas wrote:
TVB wrote:It might not be the bumps, but the riding posture.
I agree that this could be the problem. Especially if a person does not ride a lot, they need to be very sensitive to their posture while riding. If nothing else, might be worth borrowing and wearing a back brace/support for a bit. If it makes a difference, it is likely a posture issue.

Agreed, I think posture is most likely the biggest thing you could work on, I know I am likely the biggest miscreant on this subject, I slouch and my back hurts! A brace or support of some kind that 'reminds' you to sit up straight sounds like a good idea, I've used one it makes a difference.
As to some exercises to strengthen the 'core' that should help as well.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:27 pm

vincegotera wrote:My wife is the one who owns a stock Buddy 50. Here's the problem I'm trying to help her with: whenever she rides she gets really bad backaches. For days. So she hasn't been riding much.

Is she using the center stand or the side stand? Some folks, myself included, get terrible backaches from pulling a scooter on and off the centerstand. I quit using the centerstand and learned to live with the side stand. Truthfully, this requires a little effort and is not as secure as the centerstand, but my backaches went away immediately.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:32 pm

Is she an experienced rider? It could be the lower back equivalent of a death grip. Being nervous and tense can tighten lots of muscles.

Also for me, it had been seven months of no riding before I hit the CBR. My back muscles just weren't in shape. Not bad...but annoying and painful for the first 3 days.

bluebuddygirl · Post by **bluebuddygirl** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:55 pm

KABarash wrote:
Dooglas wrote:
TVB wrote:It might not be the bumps, but the riding posture.
I agree that this could be the problem. Especially if a person does not ride a lot, they need to be very sensitive to their posture while riding. If nothing else, might be worth borrowing and wearing a back brace/support for a bit. If it makes a difference, it is likely a posture issue.
Agreed, I think posture is most likely the biggest thing you could work on, I know I am likely the biggest miscreant on this subject, I slouch and my back hurts! A brace or support of some kind that 'reminds' you to sit up straight sounds like a good idea, I've used one it makes a difference.
As to some exercises to strengthen the 'core' that should help as well.

+1 If she is slouching it will kill her back. I try to be conscious of sitting upright, nice and straight, at least when I think of it. I find that riding actually strengthens and helps my back, but if you ride with bad posture, the opposite will be true.

Edwub · Post by **Edwub** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:01 pm

Would a kidney belt help? I know some people use them for the back support, even when they're not off-roading.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:36 pm

I'm a sloucher. But when I see bumps coming, I immediately straighten up. If you don't it will hurt the hell out of your back when you hit those bumps. You can't always tell when a bump is coming, so it's better to always sit straight. But since I'm a lazy sloucher, I occasionally pay the penalty. And if you listen closely, you'll hear me yip in pain.

smarkum · Post by **smarkum** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:25 pm

k1dude wrote:I'm a sloucher. But when I see bumps coming, I immediately straighten up. If you don't it will hurt the hell out of your back when you hit those bumps. You can't always tell when a bump is coming, so it's better to always sit straight. But since I'm a lazy sloucher, I occasionally pay the penalty. And if you listen closely, you'll hear me yip in pain.

I hear you! and, my kids hear my pain too! They say "what did you say Mommy?" whenever I hit a bump that I didn't see coming. One valuable skill I learned in the Motorcycle Safety Class was to lift up on my legs and get my butt way up off the seat whenever a bump, or RR tracks, or road debris that I couldn't avoid were coming. My legs hurt for the first few weeks, but now I lift up a lot on my commute (I'm learning where the bumps are) and my back is very grateful. In the class they had big boards in the middle of the course. We had to go over them, and over and over again until we had out butts up - way up! I hated that skill; but my back is SO glad I learned!

Changing the foam in my seat helped a lot for me too. The foam in my stock buddy seat was hard as a soft brick. Now it is nice and supportive.

50CC Cape Cod · Post by **50CC Cape Cod** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:36 pm

I could not agree more that posture, slouching, seat position, moving the scooter can all do a number on your lower back. If you hit a dip in the road without using some leg resistance that only adds to it. I find my neck gets stiff when traffic around me is tail gaiting cutting you off keeps my muscles tensed up and I pay for it later.
You can also try a velcro lower back support like the ones you see staff at the Home Depot or Lowes wear. Adjustable helps the kidney area. I have a motorcycle jacket that even has metal braces that slide in pockets on the lower back area of the jacket. Shifting seating position, foot position usually helps as well.

gbjbany · Post by **gbjbany** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:02 pm

I have a problem with my upper back, hurting after a couple of hours and another rider told me that I looked like my arms / shoulders were rigid, the death grip, when I learnt, reminded myself, to relax my shoulders and arms I have found I can ride much longer and much less pain after, I did wonder if it was my helmet and the wind but the tight shoulders seems to have been the issue

vincegotera · Post by **vincegotera** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:14 am

Hi again, everyone. Thanks for all the suggestions and comments. I need to digest all this good stuff. I'll reply tomorrow, okay? I just wanted to say thanks for now.

Beamster · Post by **Beamster** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:53 am

Try a stretchy kidney belt. Works well for me in most instances.
I have always liked the "Gold Belt" brand.
http://www.aerostich.com/gold-belt-kidney-belt.html

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:15 am

I replaced my stock Cheng Shin 3.5-10 tires with new Heidenau K61's in 100/90-10 last week. As others have said, having good tires helps. The larger diameter and higher volume Heidenau's basically feels like it adds the equivalent of an extra 1/4" to 1/2" of travel to your suspension. I know that doesn't sound like much, but when you only have 2.19" of travel up front and 2.40" in back, an extra quarter to half inch is a lot.

I don't know if the 50 rim can accept a slightly larger tire, but if it can, it might be an option to consider.

smarkum · Post by **smarkum** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:15 am

That's a great tip K1dude . . . about the tires. makes me look forward to when my tires need to be replaced!

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:20 pm

I've got nothing 100% original except to say

1) how is her overall lower back/ab strength? Does she normally have back issues?

2) is she squeezing the thing to death when she rides? I know I had a lot of aches and pains, and those started again when I had a longer commute. Now I can ride for a pretty long time and only get a little stiff.

Since I quit being a full-time athlete last year, I have found that I have to stretch/move a lot more too, otherwise riding becomes a thing that breaks up the stiffness of a desk job.

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:31 pm

IMO, the only time the rear shock helps is when the rider is around 200lbs or more. Replacing the rear shock will make the ride stiffer and the handling more accurate but definately not smooth or comfy.

Did anyone mention tire pressure? You could try running slightly less pressure. But this will only help with impact/related pain. A side on picture of your wife seated on the scooter would help in diagnosing the issue. My back gets tired after running errands all day on the scooter too. A back brace isn't a bad idea.

BootScootin'FireFighter · Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:45 pm

gr8dog wrote:I use an AirHawk.

I second the Airhawk. Saved my rear on the CBR, which was the reason I got it. I don't use it for everyday trips around town, just longer jaunts of more than 30 minutes. Sometimes I start to feel sore when I'm out for a while and I forgot to use it, maybe I'm just spoiled used to it. I don't want to always have it on and have it stolen. Lots of other MTCs in my building, so the chances of it getting jacked is pretty high.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:20 pm

Which size of Airhawk fits a Buddy?

BootScootin'FireFighter · Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:07 pm

k1dude wrote:Which size of Airhawk fits a Buddy?

Airhawk 2 medium cruiser.

Modern Buddy

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