Buddy International 150 vs. Buddy 125 Quoted Speed

BumbleBee · Post by **BumbleBee** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:31 pm

On the Genuine website, the 150 cc Buddy International models list a top speed of 60+, but the Buddy 125 lists 65+.

Ignoring the question of how accurate quoted top speeds are, why would the 150 be quoted with a lower top speed? Is this just poor website proofing?

Apologize if this has been discussed already, didn't find a thread in my search.

Thanks,
B.

ScooterTrash · Post by **ScooterTrash** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:03 am

restricted?

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:46 am

ScooterTrash wrote:restricted?

I can't think of any reason to restrict a 150. The reason for restricting the 50s is to meet the state requirements for "mopeds" to avoid licensing and insurance requirements that apply to a scooter. I wouldn't expect the top end on the 150 to be much higher than the 125 but it could hardly be lower. Maybe the 150 has a speedometer that reads actual speed? Or a typo as BumbleBee suggests.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:26 am

I think it's probably a goof. The only factor that would make a 150 slower would be added weight, and I seriously doubt the difference is quite that great.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:26 pm

Maybe all that fancy multi-color adds weight?
Or maybe the x-misson and or carb was not changed to accommodate the additional 25cc

and.....

You gotta wonder how they increased capacity.
Did they just bore, did they change the stroke, and head???
What are the differences in compression between the 125 and 150.
And, were they just looking for more midrange pull verses the zippiness of the 125?

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:59 pm

rajron wrote:You gotta wonder how they increased capacity.
Did they just bore, did they change the stroke, and head???
What are the differences in compression between the 125 and 150.
And, were they just looking for more midrange pull verses the zippiness of the 125?

It would be pretty wasteful and time-consuming to just take 125s and basically pre-install a cylinder kit in them. PGO does make 150cc engines; this could be the same 150 that was in the Blur.

lou76 · Post by **lou76** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:30 am

ericalm wrote:It would be pretty wasteful and time-consuming to just take 125s and basically pre-install a cylinder kit in them.

isn't that what they did with the rattler 110, though? kitted 50cc?

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:44 pm

lou76 wrote:
ericalm wrote:It would be pretty wasteful and time-consuming to just take 125s and basically pre-install a cylinder kit in them.
isn't that what they did with the rattler 110, though? kitted 50cc?

I dunno. It's possible, I suppose, but I don't think Genuine was making a 110cc to put in there. Anyone have more info on that?

I'll email Genuine after the holiday and ask about the 150s.

Bryce-O-Rama · Post by **Bryce-O-Rama** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:46 am

lou76 wrote:
ericalm wrote:It would be pretty wasteful and time-consuming to just take 125s and basically pre-install a cylinder kit in them.
isn't that what they did with the rattler 110, though? kitted 50cc?

The 110 may have things in common with the 50, but it's overall a very different engine. It wasn't being sold here, obviously, but it's a bigger bore and longer stroke engine than the 50. Sort of like how the Vespa GT200 engine and ET4 engine are tremendously different but part of the same family.

pesqueeb · Post by **pesqueeb** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:01 am

looks like genuine's web site says (now anyway) 60MPH on both versions. Interestingly enough it says the 125 gets 1MPG better over the 150.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:23 pm

I spoke to Ron, my mechanic friend at Scoot Over in Tucson the other day. He has been fitting a 150cc kit to a Buddy since about June. He DID in fact get it done and was in contact with Genuine during the entire process. From what I understand, Genuine essentially took his information and experience and created the larger bore kit for the original Buddy 125 engine. This, I believe, is what will come on the International series. Ron says top speed will be pretty much the same, but there is a significant increase in mid-range torque...which is pretty much what the Buddy needed.

--Keys

davland · Post by **davland** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:32 pm

Forgive my mechanical ignorance, but can somebody explain what is meant by bore and stroke, etc? What does the carb have to do with it? Just trying to get myself edumacated before I plunk down the cash.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:15 pm

Okay. The bore is the inside diameter of the cylinder. The stroke is the length of the throw of the crankshaft/connecting rod/piston assembly. The cubic centimeters of your engine is determined by figuring the area of the bore ([pi X R] squared) times the length of the stroke. If there are more than one cylinder, this then would be multiplied by the number of cylinders.

The reason the carburetor is included in any change in the bore and stroke is because it supplies the fuel and air for combustion. If you change the volume (cubic centimeters), you will then have different requirements for the proper combustion ratio. There is a certain ratio that is required for combustion or it will either not happen or will be inefficient, creating difficult to find problems with how your scooter is running.

I hope this wasn't too obtuse. It is actually a pretty over-simplified description, but should suffice for basic understanding.

--Keys

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:41 am

Fuh. I was hoping they were "true" 150s—as in Blur/G-Max engines. BUT, the good news is that these kits should be available for all the 125s next year.

Also, I've heard that there may be a new line of Buddy performance stuff available in '08. I should know more about it in a few weeks.

davland · Post by **davland** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:04 am

Keys wrote:Okay. The bore is the inside diameter of the cylinder. The stroke is the length of the throw of the crankshaft/connecting rod/piston assembly. The cubic centimeters of your engine is determined by figuring the area of the bore ([pi X R] squared) times the length of the stroke. If there are more than one cylinder, this then would be multiplied by the number of cylinders.

The reason the carburetor is included in any change in the bore and stroke is because it supplies the fuel and air for combustion. If you change the volume (cubic centimeters), you will then have different requirements for the proper combustion ratio. There is a certain ratio that is required for combustion or it will either not happen or will be inefficient, creating difficult to find problems with how your scooter is running.

I hope this wasn't too obtuse. It is actually a pretty over-simplified description, but should suffice for basic understanding.

--Keys

That describes it perfectly and sufficiently. Thank you very much. I've learned something new today!

Sunil · Post by **Sunil** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:47 am

I wonder what it would cost to 150 a buddy. Would there be a big hit on gas mileage? I cant wait for a side to side test...

weaseltamer · Post by **weaseltamer** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:56 pm

ooo i8 want a kit on mine now. is that an upgrade that is compatible with a prima pipe?

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:58 pm

Sunil wrote:I wonder what it would cost to 150 a buddy. Would there be a big hit on gas mileage? I cant wait for a side to side test...

Genuine's site is saying there's a mere 1MPG difference between the 125 and 150. On another aftermarket kit, it may be different.

weaseltamer wrote:ooo i8 want a kit on mine now. is that an upgrade that is compatible with a prima pipe?

Yep. Add a variator upgrade and it'll do wheelies so fast you'll be doing backflips.