Turn signals in Florida for vintage vespa???

vespamiami · Post by **vespamiami** » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:56 pm

Do I need turn signals for my vintage 1963 Vespa VBB in Florida???

I have been researching this for a while and got conflicting information!

I have just completed a motorcycle basic rider course and even trainers didn't agree on this subject, either.

Do I need it or not? Have you got a ticket for not having them?

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:48 am

Your bike was never fitted with them. It is your discretion as to fit them or not, as it's not a legal requirement. If you don't have electronic signals, be sure to give the proper hand signals prior to changing direction and you should be fine.

Post 666, the evil one I guess.

OldGuy · Post by **OldGuy** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:57 am

I don't know about Florida, but I doubt you would be required to add them. That would be like having to add air bags to a Model T. Might be good for safety but not necessarily required.

I am in Washington state and the upgrade is not required here. I signal the old fashioned way on my older bikes... I have a 1971 and a 1967 motorcycle; neither has signals, both are considered legal. As long as I have the equipment installed that they were built with all is well.

That said, turn signals can enhance safety, both by keeping your hands on the grips and by helping others understand your intentions. If you can add signals cleanly and without permanent changes to the scooter it would be a nice idea.

And, a '63 Vespa sounds cool; nice score!

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:45 am

OldGuy wrote:That said, turn signals can enhance safety, both by keeping your hands on the grips and by helping others understand your intentions. If you can add signals cleanly and without permanent changes to the scooter it would be a nice idea.

Seems like a good thought to me.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:02 am

+1. Grandfather clause, you're good.

IIRC, DOT started requiring turn signals in 1973. I have a '71 Primavera that was sold/titled in '73 that someone bolted ugly trailer signals to, with toaster cord, with a relay mounted on a wood (seriously) block under the cowl. it never worked right and I pulled it all off and covered up the holes, and if anyone ever questions me about it, I'll show them the production date stamped on the legshield, ha.

I always thought some farmer bolted the signals on, until I saw a couple more Primaveras wired exactly like mine. Crazy. I don't think I've ever seen a '72 or '73 US-market Vespa that wasn't really a '71. Then in '74 Vespa switched to the DOT US wiring, which was pretty cruddy too, but at least consistent.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:55 am

OldGuy wrote:That said, turn signals can enhance safety, both by keeping your hands on the grips and by helping others understand your intentions.

Especially since the number of drivers on the road who know what the old right-turn signal* means is probably about 1%. On my bike I stick out my right arm instead, because I figure people will see and understand that, but you can't do that so easily with a hand throttle.

*left arm out, elbow bent, hand pointing up

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:25 pm

Be sure to check out Item 3 below.

The 2012 Florida Statutes

Title XXIII
MOTOR VEHICLES Chapter 316
STATE UNIFORM TRAFFIC CONTROL View Entire Chapter

316.222 Stop lamps and turn signals.—
(1) Every motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, and pole trailer shall be equipped with two or more stop lamps meeting the requirements of s. 316.234(1). Motor vehicles, trailers, semitrailers and pole trailers manufactured or assembled prior to January 1, 1972, shall be equipped with at least one stop lamp. On a combination of vehicles, only the stop lamps on the rearmost vehicle need actually be seen from the distance specified in s. 316.234(1).

(2) Every motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, and pole trailer shall be equipped with electric turn signal lamps meeting the requirements of s. 316.234(2).

(3) Passenger cars and trucks less than 80 inches in width, manufactured or assembled prior to January 1, 1972, need not be equipped with electric turn signal lamps.

(4) A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.
History.—s. 1, ch. 71-135; s. 174, ch. 99-248.

You do need to have one mirror

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:48 pm

TVB wrote:
OldGuy wrote:That said, turn signals can enhance safety, both by keeping your hands on the grips and by helping others understand your intentions.
Especially since the number of drivers on the road who know what the old right-turn signal* means is probably about 1%. On my bike I stick out my right arm instead, because I figure people will see and understand that, but you can't do that so easily with a hand throttle.

*left arm out, elbow bent, hand pointing up

This is my worry. If somebody is acting a fool around me, I'll hand signal on top of turn blinkers... but the only time I have relied solely on hand signals has been in a group ride. I just do not trust cagers to know the signals, or respond to them.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:22 pm

LunaP wrote:
TVB wrote:
OldGuy wrote:That said, turn signals can enhance safety, both by keeping your hands on the grips and by helping others understand your intentions.
Especially since the number of drivers on the road who know what the old right-turn signal* means is probably about 1%. On my bike I stick out my right arm instead, because I figure people will see and understand that, but you can't do that so easily with a hand throttle.

*left arm out, elbow bent, hand pointing up
This is my worry. If somebody is acting a fool around me, I'll hand signal on top of turn blinkers... but the only time I have relied solely on hand signals has been in a group ride. I just do not trust cagers to know the signals, or respond to them.

This is one reason...among many...that riding vintage is very different from modern or "classic"

vespamiami · Post by **vespamiami** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:24 am

BuddyRaton wrote:Be sure to check out Item 3 below.

The 2012 Florida Statutes

Title XXIII
MOTOR VEHICLES Chapter 316
STATE UNIFORM TRAFFIC CONTROL View Entire Chapter

316.222 Stop lamps and turn signals.—
(1) Every motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, and pole trailer shall be equipped with two or more stop lamps meeting the requirements of s. 316.234(1). Motor vehicles, trailers, semitrailers and pole trailers manufactured or assembled prior to January 1, 1972, shall be equipped with at least one stop lamp. On a combination of vehicles, only the stop lamps on the rearmost vehicle need actually be seen from the distance specified in s. 316.234(1).

(2) Every motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, and pole trailer shall be equipped with electric turn signal lamps meeting the requirements of s. 316.234(2).

(3) Passenger cars and trucks less than 80 inches in width, manufactured or assembled prior to January 1, 1972, need not be equipped with electric turn signal lamps.

(4) A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.
History.—s. 1, ch. 71-135; s. 174, ch. 99-248.

You do need to have one mirror

It sounds great however pay attention to the language of the statute: " Passenger cars and trucks... " It doesn't say motorcycles or motor vehicles... So if you analyze the language you realize that it won't apply to motorcycles...
Devil is always in the details.

misterbrackets · Post by **misterbrackets** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:58 pm

Isn't it already registered in Florida? If so, I can't imagine that suddenly you have to put turn signals on, after 50 years without them.

If it was me, I really wouldn't go to the trouble of putting turn signals on -- unless you just wanted them, of course.

The time it takes you to go to the DMV and find out for sure is less than the hassle of putting them on.

Nice looking scoot, by the way! I like the color.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:39 pm

vespamiami wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:Be sure to check out Item 3 below.

The 2012 Florida Statutes

Title XXIII
MOTOR VEHICLES Chapter 316
STATE UNIFORM TRAFFIC CONTROL View Entire Chapter

316.222 Stop lamps and turn signals.—
(1) Every motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, and pole trailer shall be equipped with two or more stop lamps meeting the requirements of s. 316.234(1). Motor vehicles, trailers, semitrailers and pole trailers manufactured or assembled prior to January 1, 1972, shall be equipped with at least one stop lamp. On a combination of vehicles, only the stop lamps on the rearmost vehicle need actually be seen from the distance specified in s. 316.234(1).

(2) Every motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, and pole trailer shall be equipped with electric turn signal lamps meeting the requirements of s. 316.234(2).

(3) Passenger cars and trucks less than 80 inches in width, manufactured or assembled prior to January 1, 1972, need not be equipped with electric turn signal lamps.

(4) A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.
History.—s. 1, ch. 71-135; s. 174, ch. 99-248.

You do need to have one mirror
It sounds great however pay attention to the language of the statute: " Passenger cars and trucks... " It doesn't say motorcycles or motor vehicles... So if you analyze the language you realize that it won't apply to motorcycles...
Devil is always in the details.

Dude....I don't know why we are playing "Let's post in MV NSM AND in MB!!!!! AWESOME!!!!

First...you have gotten good advice over on Modern Vespa Not So Modern Forum...that's a place that vintage scooter heads hang...not Modern Buddy general discussion

I have no idea why you are asking this question on Modern Buddy...as much as I love these people it is not the best place to come for vintage advice.

If you are this concerned maybe you need to consult a lawyer or maybe vintage just isn't for you.

So to repeat my response...which is kind of annoying to start with

ScooterRaton wrote:Welcome to the world of vintage scooters!

That statute is way close enough for me that I can argue misunderstanding to the judge while wearing my Piston Ported...Dope as F*ck T-shirt

Honestly this is one thing that I just don't worry about. I have never heard of any Florida Vintage rider being pulled over or ticketed for no turn signals. To me it is one of those things that if they ticket me with it I'll worry about it then. Yeah...some people might consider me scooter trash

I have some very very personal very close "friends" that have done things like ride with no lights, no front brakes, no brake light, no registration, swapped a tag from another scooter etc etc...of course I
would NEVER do any of these things.

vespamiami · Post by **vespamiami** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:45 pm

misterbrackets wrote:Isn't it already registered in Florida? If so, I can't imagine that suddenly you have to put turn signals on, after 50 years without them.

If it was me, I really wouldn't go to the trouble of putting turn signals on -- unless you just wanted them, of course.

The time it takes you to go to the DMV and find out for sure is less than the hassle of putting them on.

Nice looking scoot, by the way! I like the color.

Thanks so much! This is what I am going to do!