back and neck pain

levelbest · Post by **levelbest** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:44 am

After dealing w/ lower back pain since December 2012 (bought my Buddy 150 in October '12) and serious neck pain on longer rides that never completely goes away, I've concluded that my stiff ride could be wreaking havoc w/ my spine. I've been told by the local dealer that no suspension parts are adjustable, and I've just lowered my tire pressure from 30+ both F & R to 23 F and 25 R. For 7 years I rode a 50cc Metropolitan and never experience discomfort. My recent physical exam indicated that I've shrunk an inch in the past year, and my chiropractor's x-rays showed a couple compressed disks. I am a 60-year old male, 138 lbs. and I love my Buddy almost as much as my wife. Any suggestions?

CapnK · Post by **CapnK** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:09 am

Just for clarification - were the 7 years of Honda Metropolitan riding immediately prior to Oct '12 and your Buddy riding?

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:17 am

They make adjustable rear shocks. Why not change it out.. or even change the front ones they make a few " Have to do some searching for it though.

levelbest · Post by **levelbest** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:43 am

CapnK wrote:Just for clarification - were the 7 years of Honda Metropolitan riding immediately prior to Oct '12 and your Buddy riding?

Yes

levelbest · Post by **levelbest** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:57 am

Throwback7R wrote:They make adjustable rear shocks. Why not change it out.. or even change the front ones they make a few " Have to do some searching for it though.

The dealer's service dept said that any after-market changes would make it at least as stiff as it already is. Possibly just an opinion not based in fact. Do they rate ride stiffness objectively, like, say decibels, IBU, Scoville units, etc.? Because changing anything would be too expensive to not get the desired results.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:55 am

I also experience stiff/sore upper back (level with my shoulders) and neck pain when I ride long distances....I'm talking off and on riding for 5-6 hours.

On a 1 1/2 hour ride I do fine. I've never really done anything inbetween, so I'm not sure when the cut off is that the upper back stiffness/soreness sets in.

My lower back (which is my problem area as I have degradation of L4/L5 in my spine) never hurts on any of my rides, regardless of length.

How long of a ride are you talking about?

levelbest · Post by **levelbest** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:25 am

michelle_7728 wrote:I also experience stiff/sore upper back (level with my shoulders) and neck pain when I ride long distances....I'm talking off and on riding for 5-6 hours.

On a 1 1/2 hour ride I do fine. I've never really done anything inbetween, so I'm not sure when the cut off is that the upper back stiffness/soreness sets in.

My lower back (which is my problem area as I have degradation of L4/L5 in my spine) never hurts on any of my rides, regardless of length.

How long of a ride are you talking about?

A couple long rides this summer were over 10 hrs. w/ plenty of breaks--maybe 6-7 hrs total. Stiffness/soreness doesn't really describe it. I'd say searing neck pain on occasion while riding, very sore sometimes jabbing pain in lower back many early mornings. I know no one is going to diagnose my spinal issues. But suspension options?

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:40 am

Actually, the phrase "searing pain" (very pinpointed) does bring back memories of the tail end of a couple of those rides I mentioned...though to be honest, I never thought changing anything about the bike would resolve the issue. I figured it was something to do with holding myself semi-rigid in one position on and off for the past 5-6 hours that caused it for me.

Not that I am tense when I ride, but the thing is, I would never (even at work) be sitting with my elbows unsupported with arms in front holding on to something for several hours at a time. My elbows are always supported on my office chair at work, so there is no slight tension in my shoulder blades. In the (luckily) rare times I sit in another building, and have the unfortunate "pleasure" of sitting in a chair that I cannot fit to myself (elbows not supported), I experience that same stabbing pain, mid-way through my day, that I experience in my long rides.

I can't speak for your situation...obviously you'd be the best judge of that...but for me, I'm sure it's that unnatural stance (unsupported elbows and arms slightly extended), which though it's only adding just slight tension to my upper body, finally accumulates to the point where, even with frequent stops, it's just too much.

I don't think I had issues the next day, but certainly the discomfort remained with me the rest of the day.

gar1013 · Post by **gar1013** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:32 pm

In general, here are some tips I have for back and neck pain -- won't apply to everyone here, but this strikes me as a topic that will come up in searches.

- Helmet: your helmet can be a source of neck/upper back pain. Generally speaking, the more aerodynamic and light your helmet is, the better. Full face helmets are actually more aerodynamic than an open face is (think about smooth surface versus the angular surface that is your face). So think full face in this regard, but also think about weight. Some helmet brands weigh less than others -- get the lightest helmet you can given your budget, as long as you don't sacrifice safety. A lighter helmet means your muscles aren't having to support as much weight moving around at the end of a lever (i.e. - your head)

- Kidney belt: these things are GREAT when it comes to helping to reduce lower back pain. Not just for kidneys, but for your lower back muscles in general. It's like having incredibly strong core muscles, which leads me to...

- Stomach / core muscles: If you have weak stomach and core muscles, you're going to have back pain. This doesn't mean you need to do crunches, there are lots of exercises you can do that can help your core muscles without doing crunches or situps. I'm actually working on getting in shape right now (okay, not at this exact moment sitting at my desk), and I can tell you that I've noticed improvement in my core muscles without a single @#$#ing crunch having been done.

- Flexibility: stiff muscles in one part of your body can have cascading effects. I'm so inflexible that it was even commented on by a physical therapist who deals primarily with the elderly -- and this was when I was only 30! The fact of the matter is that if you have stiff muscles in one part of your body, it can have cascading effects on other parts of the body. For example, I occasionally get pain behind my right ankle on the outside of the foot -- the culprit isn't in the foot at all, but is actually high up in the calf muscle. If I work the deep knot there, the ankle pain goes away. Weird, huh? At any rate, stretching and myofascial release are things you should think about doing on a regular basis -- stretching works best if you've had a warm up first (and by warmup, I mean you're breathing hard and have broken a sweat).

- Backpacks & shoulder bags: don't wear them when riding. I'm guilty of doing this, but it's not really good for your back. Get a luggage rack and bungee cords, or just a lot of duct tape.

- Hydration: if you're not properly hydrated, you can experience muscle pain... along with all sorts of other issues. Point being, if you're thirst, get something to drink.

- Breaks: take 'em. Nobody says you have to ride non-stop.

- Your ride: make sure your ride actually fits you. If it's not ergonomically correct, spend the money to fix it, where possible, and also accept the fact that not every bike is going to work for you. In the case of suspension, you don't want it rock hard, but you also don't want it to be so soft that you're bottoming out. If you have an adjustable suspension, make sure the preload is set properly. If you don't have an adjustable one, consider getting one.

levelbest · Post by **levelbest** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:18 am

All good suggestions, gar1013, though I'm neglectful in the hydration dept. and don't know anything about kidney belts. I have a sacroiliac belt and a lower lumber belt; would either work? I was hoping to connect w/ someone who has found and implemented adjustable suspension or found another way to absorb all the road bumps, which I suspect as the real culprit in all this.

iamryan25 · Post by **iamryan25** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:04 am

A windshield can do a world of wonders on muscle fatigue, which can easily cause back pain. If you don't have one already you might give it a whirl, I know it helped me for back pain. On the metro you were not able to hit Buddy speed, and the added fatigue of "holding on" to the scooter may be causing the discomfort?

easy · Post by **easy** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:32 am

My black jack rides a good bit smoother than wives reg buddy. The shock is kinda pricey, scooter works sells them I would install a windshield also. I know abt the difference between full face helmet and a open face in crash protection but my bell custom open face helmet is so much more comfortable.

Whimscootie · Post by **Whimscootie** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:38 pm

Have you tried something like this to cut down on the pressure on your spine?

http://www.amazon.com/Airhawk-Seat-Cush ... at+cushion

gar1013 · Post by **gar1013** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:43 pm

levelbest wrote:All good suggestions, gar1013, though I'm neglectful in the hydration dept. and don't know anything about kidney belts. I have a sacroiliac belt and a lower lumber belt; would either work? I was hoping to connect w/ someone who has found and implemented adjustable suspension or found another way to absorb all the road bumps, which I suspect as the real culprit in all this.

Not sure what those belts do, BUT... a modern kidney belt is typically a wide belt that is either entirely elastic or with elastic panels, that basically wraps around you.

Usually, you can find them in the offroad section of most motorcycle shops.

Here's what they look like on a guy:

If you want to see what they look like on a woman wearing a bikini, this page has a variety of examples:

http://www.easterndirt.com/?p=1080

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:53 pm

GET A REAR SHOCK!!!. they are much better in the damping dept. and are adjustable. Get a good YSS, makes a big difference. Lots of other good ideas in here, but that will help.

gar1013 · Post by **gar1013** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:11 pm

easy wrote:but my bell custom open face helmet is so much more comfortable.

With full face helmets, you really have to try different brands -- they are all built a bit differently.

You know you've found the right full face helmet when you don't remove it for things like entering banks.

easy · Post by **easy** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:59 pm

I was thinking abt the weight of the helmet also in the for sale forum there's a NYC rear shock for $100 claims only abt 300 miles on it man I'd be all over that

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:13 pm

Now that we established that getting older totally sucks...

I have a
T-1 issue, totally not operable, not where it is, so I've been dealing with this "pain in the neck" and stiff shoulders for years. The nasty part with compressions is the numbness in the arms that can result from sitting in one position too long, whatever too long means. Add to that lower back issues......Now the interesting thing is that I seldom if ever experience any kind of neck pain issues even on longer rides. I don't know if the handlebar location on the Buddy is just right for me or I get such a happy rush when I ride that I don't feel any discomfort. The trouble starts when I play piano. Because of the pain and neck stiffness I've been playing less and less....that was my bad weather "Prozac" and I miss....

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:24 am

+1 on the kidney belt, seat cushion and winshield.

Your pains could be caused by muscle tension, there are things you can do at home to help with it, too... I have an electrode 'massager' (aka TENS machine) that I use on my back/neck/shoulders and calves when needed, as I have chronic muscle tension issues.

You could also try adding footpegs and seeing if holding your feet/legs/knees in different positions while riding helps out your back.

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:11 am

LunaP wrote:+1 on the kidney belt, seat cushion and winshield.

Your pains could be caused by muscle tension, there are things you can do at home to help with it, too... I have an electrode 'massager' (aka TENS machine) that I use on my back/neck/shoulders and calves when needed, as I have chronic muscle tension issues.

You could also try adding footpegs and seeing if holding your feet/legs/knees in different positions while riding helps out your back.

As for massage machine or chair for those who do not have, crank up the scooter and just hold on to the handlebars for a bit. Beats any massager

(yeah I know, I had to go "there")

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:04 am

^^^ you're not supposed to sit on the handlebars

levelbest · Post by **levelbest** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:12 am

iamryan25 wrote:A windshield can do a world of wonders on muscle fatigue, which can easily cause back pain. If you don't have one already you might give it a whirl, I know it helped me for back pain. On the metro you were not able to hit Buddy speed, and the added fatigue of "holding on" to the scooter may be causing the discomfort?

levelbest · Post by **levelbest** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:19 am

Whimscootie wrote:Have you tried something like this to cut down on the pressure on your spine?

http://www.amazon.com/Airhawk-Seat-Cush ... at+cushion

levelbest · Post by **levelbest** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:24 am

viney266 wrote:GET A REAR SHOCK!!!. they are much better in the damping dept. and are adjustable. Get a good YSS, makes a big difference. Lots of other good ideas in here, but that will help.

levelbest · Post by **levelbest** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:31 am

LunaP wrote:+1 on the kidney belt, seat cushion and winshield.

Your pains could be caused by muscle tension, there are things you can do at home to help with it, too... I have an electrode 'massager' (aka TENS machine) that I use on my back/neck/shoulders and calves when needed, as I have chronic muscle tension issues.

You could also try adding footpegs and seeing if holding your feet/legs/knees in different positions while riding helps out your back.