Le Buddy est mort

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:02 am

Traveling at 40 mph and it just spontaneously died - like I hit the kill switch (which I didn't).

It's getting fuel and I used my timing light to verify it's got a spark - so what could it be?

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:20 am

If this is a clip-onto-the-spark-cable sort of timing light, as opposed to the old ones where you actually physically connect the trigger lead to the top of the plug, it may only be triggering on the coil's output rather than actual spark. It might be prudent to pull the spark plug, inspect it visually, then do the grounded-plug thing to visually verify that you truly have spark at the plug tip.

How do you know for sure that you are getting fuel in the cylinder?

Not questioning your diag skills, but stranger things have happened. Like TrackPete's piston and carbon buildup mashing the plug electrode at the top of the stroke.

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:22 am

PeteH wrote:If this is a clip-onto-the-spark-wire sort of timing light, it may only be triggering on the coil's output rather than actual spark. It might be prudent to pull the spark plug, inspect it visually, then do the grounded-plug thing to visually verify that you truly have spark at the plug tip.

How do you know for sure that you are getting fuel in the cylinder?

I pulled the plug to ensure it actually was good - looks OK at first glance. Could be time for a new spark plug (5000 miles?)

It reeked of gasoline.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:27 am

That was fast

Try laying the plug's shell against the head and see if it sparks, I guess.

If you have spark and fuel, air is the third bit. But I don't know how you'd get a catastrophic air blockage.

So yeah, that plug could probably stand a swap. Cheap and easy, so maybe try that first.

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:28 am

Could be flooded Too much gas is not a good thing.

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:55 am

Throwback7R wrote:Could be flooded Too much gas is not a good thing.

No, but that wouldn't be the cause of instant death - more like a sputtering.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:05 am

JettaKnight wrote:I pulled the plug to ensure it actually was good - looks OK at first glance. Could be time for a new spark plug (5000 miles?)
It reeked of gasoline.

Not sure what you mean by "looks okay". Do you actually know you have a spark? Wet gas on the plug might suggest you don't.

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:06 am

Dooglas wrote:
JettaKnight wrote:I pulled the plug to ensure it actually was good - looks OK at first glance. Could be time for a new spark plug (5000 miles?)
It reeked of gasoline.
Not sure what you mean by "looks okay". Do you actually know you have a spark? Wet gas on the plug might suggest you don't.

Yeah. Hmm.

I'll try a new plug in the morning.

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:11 am

It could just cause it to shut off.. were you under acceleration ?

Also if you crank the starter does the exhaust sound like it is getting compression?

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:13 am

Throwback7R wrote:It could just cause it to shut off.. were you under acceleration ?

Also if you crank the starter does the exhaust sound like it is getting compression?

Oddly, just cruising along and - complete power loss.

Cranks good, but doesn't start.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:33 am

JettaKnight wrote:Yeah. Hmm. I'll try a new plug in the morning.

If you are not getting a spark, it is more likely to be the wire or the coil than the plug itself. Did you try "grounding the plug" as PeteH suggested? In other words, cranking the engine while holding the connected plug against the head to see if a spark is present.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUOmsGiirTU

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:19 am

Try a new plug.....just to take it out of the possible failed part list....that and you have 5k on it.
Over the years I have been fooled more than once by a internally shorted plug.
It would have a spark jump across the terminals but as it turned out, would not have spark when in the cylinder under compression.

Can't beat the price to minimize aggravation.

Rob

Dirvin · Post by **Dirvin** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:21 pm

Do a compression check just to make sure it's nothing serious. My Buddy 50 needed a heart transplant. Hopefully, it's something minor. Good luck.

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:57 am

Dirvin wrote:Do a compression check just to make sure it's nothing serious. My Buddy 50 needed a heart transplant. Hopefully, it's something minor. Good luck.

I guess that's next. Time to find someone who can do that.

New plug, sparks good (visual check of spark).
Check the valve clearance - good.
Still no go.

I should have bought that Chetak last weekend - at least I'd have two wheels to ride on.

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:00 am

JettaKnight wrote:
Dirvin wrote:Do a compression check just to make sure it's nothing serious. My Buddy 50 needed a heart transplant. Hopefully, it's something minor. Good luck.
I guess that's next. Time to find someone who can do that.

Wait, this is a chance to buy a new tool!

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:42 pm

So you have spark. You need fuel and air. Sounds to me like a chunk of garf got into a carb jet or stuck float

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:10 pm

JettaKnight wrote:Le Buddy est mort

From the classic work of scooter literature, "Le Mort de Buddy?"

iMoses · Post by **iMoses** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:14 pm

I got one word for you....

STATOR

'nuf said!

iMoses · Post by **iMoses** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:15 pm

When my stator went bad I was on my way to work, traveling about 45mph. It just died on me, luckily traffic was light that day and I was able to pull over safely.

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:02 pm

iMoses wrote:When my stator went bad I was on my way to work, traveling about 45mph. It just died on me, luckily traffic was light that day and I was able to pull over safely.

Been there, done that. If it's the stator then there will be no spark.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:47 pm

JettaKnight wrote:
iMoses wrote:When my stator went bad I was on my way to work, traveling about 45mph. It just died on me, luckily traffic was light that day and I was able to pull over safely.
Been there, done that. If it's the stator then there will be no spark.

Could be stator. Stators and other electrical components can be finicky. Many times they will not fail until hot....cool off and they work again. There are methods of checking the stator and pickup using a VOM

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:31 pm

Vive le Buddy!!!

Turns out it was a jet (idle) that had come loose and fell out into the bowl.

C2 · Post by C2 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:54 am

iMoses wrote:I got one word for you....

STATOR

'nuf said!

+1 After all of my woes with mine - and many calls from my repair place to Genuine and back - looks like my stator is dead. They don't seem to have any amount of durability to them.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:31 am

C2 wrote: looks like my stator is dead. They don't seem to have any amount of durability to them.

Six years and thousands of miles on our '07 Buddy. Still running fine. Seems like there is the factor of luck, or the right batch of parts, or whatever.

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:42 pm

As others have said, you need to do a compression test.

Its not just fuel/air/spark- you need the air to be compressed.

If you have compression, and you know fuel is getting to the cylinder, then you KNOW it is spark.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:45 pm

JettaKnight wrote:Vive le Buddy!!!

Turns out it was a jet (idle) that had come loose and fell out into the bowl.

Good for you! Yup, sure enough, that would mess up fuel delivery, and completely un-diagnosable without pulling off the carb bowl. Glad it's alive again.

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:25 pm

PeteH wrote:
JettaKnight wrote:Vive le Buddy!!!

Turns out it was a jet (idle) that had come loose and fell out into the bowl.
Good for you! Yup, sure enough, that would mess up fuel delivery, and completely un-diagnosable without pulling off the carb bowl. Glad it's alive again.

I guess the low speed jet just completely worked itself free and when that dropped out, all fuel went away.

Anyways, thanks for playing along everyone! I got myself a compression tester now! (Every problem is a chance to buy more tools!)

Swordsman · Post by **Swordsman** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:19 pm

JettaKnight wrote:I guess the low speed jet just completely worked itself free and when that dropped out, all fuel went away.

Wouldn't it have been the opposite, a sudden massive dose of fuel and extreme flooding thereafter?

Just guessing. I'm assuming vacuum would still pull fuel in, but lots more with no spray pattern.

~SM

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:38 pm

Swordsman wrote:
JettaKnight wrote:I guess the low speed jet just completely worked itself free and when that dropped out, all fuel went away.

Wouldn't it have been the opposite, a sudden massive dose of fuel and extreme flooding thereafter?

Just guessing. I'm assuming vacuum would still pull fuel in, but lots more with no spray pattern.

~SM

The jet extends into the fuel. No jet - no fuel.

Or, maybe no jet - too much fuel.

Modern Buddy

Le Buddy est mort

Le Buddy est mort

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