Buddy 125 - Oil filter came loose and engine died

SkyLuker · Post by **SkyLuker** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:19 am

my first post!

sad;y, its to ask for something, not to give something

So last week i changed the oil in my 2009 buddy 125, The Millenium Sparrow. I have done all but the first oil changes myself. This time how ever, i forgot to tighten the oil filter completely ( i hand tightened it then went to go check on some ribs i was cooking).

I rode it for about 5 miles after that, then another 8 miles total the next day. Thats when, the engine died on me and i found that the oil filter was almost all the way off. I was able to fill it up with some more oil. Tightend the filter correctly, and drove off. By the time i got home, it was 15 miles later. The Sparrow was making a clicking noise and her exaust smelled like a old lawnmower.

Yesterday i turned her on, and a huge plume of smoke began to be formed and the clicking sound was worse. I turned her off.

Today, i checked the valves, and set them to .003 of an inch. When i removed the exhaust pipe from the bottom of the engine, a drop or two of oil formed and the opening of the engine. Also, the spark plug is really dark. Anyhow, after setting the valves,
I turned her on and the clicking is still there

, tho its lesser now, and there is still smoke being made from the exaust when i rev the engine.

What else should i check? essentially, whats the worse or best case scenario for running out of oil during a ride?

I have no "special modifications" on the Sparrow.

thanks guys. i have learned so much from the Forums. I come humbly before all to get MORE help

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:53 am

What else you should check is prices for used Buddy engines.

When it ran out of oil the rings probably scored the cylinder - that's where the smoke is coming from. There is a chance, though small, that the smoke is coming from oil that made it's way to the muffler. You could try starting it up with the exhaust off to see if it still smokes (can't hurt it any more, right?), but I really think the damage is already done.

Sorry.

SkyLuker · Post by **SkyLuker** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:05 am

Good idea. I'll do that.

I'm not giving up hope yet!

I read that maybe the valve or valve oil seal being damaged would cause oil to be burned and abnormal noises. I'll look into that too.

Thanks again!

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:26 pm

Remember, you ran this bike without oil until it died. I'm with Syd - hard to believe you have not scored the cylinder. Do a compression check.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:46 pm

Dooglas wrote:Remember, you ran this bike without oil until it died. I'm with Syd - hard to believe you have not scored the cylinder. Do a compression check.

Yes. I would not personally run the engine any more. If you're really lucky, you can get away with just a top end rebuild.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:58 am

that is too bad. scooter even has a name

i've read of this in a couple of other threads. i wonder if something like blue loctite might not be recommended? i am a newb with this so don't scold me if its a no-no in this type of application. but it seems to be recommended in many other instances where threaded bolts and screws and things related are concerned

hope you get it worked out to your advantage. i make a filter check part of my weekly go over of the scooter. this sounds like a hassle to some but it takes 1-2 minutes. a little more biweekly as i check the tire pressure every two weeks. i also carry a wrench under the seat which fits the filter and on longer ride days check the filter at least once for tightness. but i always keep the wrench with me to remind me to be vigilant about it, and makes it easy to be so

ribs are tasty, though

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:48 pm

Dooglas wrote:Remember, you ran this bike without oil until it died. I'm with Syd - hard to believe you have not scored the cylinder. Do a compression check.

The jug would be the least of my worries. That's a pretty easy swap. The big problem is that every bearing is more than likely toasts and there's not telling what all got bent up when it seized.

I agree...find a motor and transplant.

SkyLuker · Post by **SkyLuker** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:38 pm

Compression test done.

Reached 85psi with no throttle.
Max pressure was about 120psi with wide open throttle.

First test with the kick start. The second test with the electric starter.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:46 pm

not sure what it should be testing at, but that sounds...hopeful?

SkyLuker · Post by **SkyLuker** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:05 pm

Right?!

I've scoured the MB forums, and havent found anything that clearly says what acceptable pressure should be. I don't know how to use the compression rate to figure out the normal pressure.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:44 pm

Maybe you got lucky. Fill it up with oil, tighten the filter, and ride it till it poops the bed. Just be ready for that to happen. Air does not make a good lubricant.

SkyLuker · Post by **SkyLuker** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:46 pm

Poops the bed???

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:53 pm

SkyLuker wrote:Poops the bed???

That's what you say when your mom's around. When she's not you say 'shit the bed'. Slang for a bad thing.

Unless you were unusually lucky, if you keep running your Buddy as is, it will probably have the bad thing happen. The engine will shit the bed and will not be repairable. I hope you are lucky. Really, I do.

SkyLuker · Post by **SkyLuker** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:54 pm

That's my cylinder. I can baaaarely feel those scratches or streaks. If I close my eyesn rub them, I can't notice them.

Same marks on piston. Piston surface and the cylinder head valve area have baked on black crud on them.

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BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:58 pm

Lets see...oh yeah..I already said it...the top end is the least of your worries. The bearings are already fucked.

SkyLuker · Post by **SkyLuker** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:34 am

You said the engine is seized. Its not. It turned on just fine after the ' incident'

, ran great with 250ish pounds on it, except for the tick coming from the front area and the burning of oil, and the smell of an old lawnmower

Maybe there is damage to the bearings, tho I haven't seen or heard any damage yet. I'll keep on investigating.

I've taken apart everything I want to. I'll be going to the scooter shop friday hoepfully. Hopefully I can get this scooter back up and running after. I'm gonna ride it like I stole it, might as well enjoy the rest of my time with her

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:42 am

Sorry your first post had to be about this.

But welcome!

JHScoot wrote:that is too bad. scooter even has a name

i've read of this in a couple of other threads. i wonder if something like blue loctite might not be recommended? i am a newb with this so don't scold me if its a no-no in this type of application. but it seems to be recommended in many other instances where threaded bolts and screws and things related are concerned

I needs to be torqued. That's the only reliable way to do it. 12 foot pounds. When it's properly torqued, there's no need for Loctite. It'll stay put. They only come loose when not tightened enough. Loctite can hold something, but if it's not tight enough to begin with and loose enough to come off, my guess is it could still happen.

SO, if you're thinking of going to the trouble of using Loctite, just torque it!

SkyLuker · Post by **SkyLuker** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:30 pm

Yes. Lesson learned.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:04 pm

ericalm wrote:Sorry your first post had to be about this.

But welcome!

JHScoot wrote:that is too bad. scooter even has a name

i've read of this in a couple of other threads. i wonder if something like blue loctite might not be recommended? i am a newb with this so don't scold me if its a no-no in this type of application. but it seems to be recommended in many other instances where threaded bolts and screws and things related are concerned
I needs to be torqued. That's the only reliable way to do it. 12 foot pounds. When it's properly torqued, there's no need for Loctite. It'll stay put. They only come loose when not tightened enough. Loctite can hold something, but if it's not tight enough to begin with and loose enough to come off, my guess is it could still happen.

SO, if you're thinking of going to the trouble of using Loctite, just torque it!

can't get the torque wrench in there. prob need to try another one but if the socket is the same size idk? i read a thread here on MB about this very thing. a user did post pics using a wrench and all that good stuff. his fit, mine almost does

so i went with the "hand tighten, 3/4 wrench turn" suggestions. guess i might track down a torque wrench that fits. sure someone has one around here

i also read in that thread POC Phil recommends not lubing the filter gasket / seal. so i don't

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:20 am

A short socket will probably be cheaper if that would help it fit.

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:09 pm

I torque my filter on using a long extension. I too think the bearings are gone. I suspect its the piston pin you are hearing. A rebuild isnt that expensive. I'd snag a 58.5mm top end an NCY big valve head. Get either a genuine crank or I think taida makes a 3.5 mm stroker. Plan on new seals and oil pump. Check your cam bearings as you may need to replace the cam as well. My local dealer did a rebuild for around $600-700 which I think is reasonable.

A word on aftermarket cranks: You need a "long spline" crank. This refers to the length of the splines where the outside variator face and kick start washer mount. The generic cranks will work but you won't be able to use the kick start washer without some fabrication.