NCY exhaust on a 170i (now with video)

Witch · Post by **Witch** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:05 am

It has been determined that my 170's exhaust is deteriorating from the inside. This would explain why it isn't getting quite the power that it should, and is also a lot louder and vibrates more than it should.

Seems to me that the best replacement would be the NCY exhaust. Perhaps I didn't search correctly, but I didn't see much mentioned about it in regards to the 170i. Anyone got a review?

Also... while it looks like a fairly straightforward swap, exactly what tools would be involved in doing so?

sc00ter · Post by **sc00ter** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:40 pm

I have the NCY on my 125. I also had a inner-rust damaged stock exhaust problem. So far (2500 miles) it has held up great. Bike lives outside, has been ridden on salted roads, hopped off curbs and never gets a bath. Stills looks new. Performance wise its the same as stock. Not much loader than stock without the included baffle, dont remember the sound with it in. Only about $50 price difference than a OEM one. I like it enough that if the wifes Buddy exhaust ever fails I will buy the same NCY for hers. Just make sure it does work on the 170i, as Im not sure.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:31 pm

Quick question: Does your 170i have an O2 sensor fitted into the exhaust? If so, you may need to either replace with stock or have a sensor fitting welded into an NCY exhaust.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:27 pm

az_slynch wrote:Quick question: Does your 170i have an O2 sensor fitted into the exhaust? If so, you may need to either replace with stock or have a sensor fitting welded into an NCY exhaust.

That's what I was thinking. There has to be an O2 sensor somewhere. I'm also wondering if remapping will be needed.

On the other hand I have had a NCY pipe on an 06 Buddy 161 and been very happy with it

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:29 pm

Witch wrote:It has been determined that my 170's exhaust is deteriorating from the inside. This would explain why it isn't getting quite the power that it should, and is also a lot louder and vibrates more than it should.

Seems to me that the best replacement would be the NCY exhaust. Perhaps I didn't search correctly, but I didn't see much mentioned about it in regards to the 170i. Anyone got a review?

Also... while it looks like a fairly straightforward swap, exactly what tools would be involved in doing so?

Are you still under warranty?

Witch · Post by **Witch** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:30 pm

I have no idea whether it has a sensor or not. I'm going by a handful of people saying that it fits the 170, the fact that Scooterworks' website says it does, and the fact that everywhere I've called has indicated that getting a stock replacement would be like waiting on a part from Piaggio. Plus, why would I want to replace a part that failed in less than 6k miles with the same thing?

theemptythrone · Post by **theemptythrone** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:57 pm

topic26580.html

this 170 has an ncy exhaust on it

sc00ter · Post by **sc00ter** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:42 am

Just because its on that scoot dose not mean its for real. I just looked at my NCY and there is no bung for a O2 sensor. I cant believe I forgot about the 170i being fuel injected. I think the "Reaper" is just for show. I know on my Zuma 125 you could see the O2 sensor from the side, both with the stock and a LeoVince exhaust. And yes, check into the warranty regaurding the stock exhaust. Honda replaced the exhaust on my old Helix even though it was 5 years old-something to do with a emission warranty for exhaust systems mandated by the goverment that was much longer than Honda's year warranty. Then again, any good muffler shop should be able to add a bung in for you. But remember the $50 price difference....

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:42 pm

Nowhere Is It Written that a FI system _must_ have an O2 feedback sensor. Before there was EFI, there was mechanical fuel-injected. Pressurized fuel squirter, but not much more. Now granted, modern EFI rigs sense O2 for proper fuel/air metering, economy, and emissions control, but it is not cast in stone that it must be so. The 170i is obviously computerized, but without seeing one up close, I don't know whether it has O2 feedback.

There are any number of folks with the 170i - does its stock exhaust have an O2 sensor or nay? If not, I'd venture that any of the aftermarket pipes that fit the PGO head and frame mounts will work.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:58 pm

Witch wrote: why would I want to replace a part that failed in less than 6k miles with the same thing?

Because if it is covered under warranty you don't spend a dime.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:43 pm

PeteH wrote:...but it is not cast in stone that it must be so. The 170i is obviously computerized, but without seeing one up close, I don't know whether it has O2 feedback.

PeteH is right, the B170i meters airflow intake. There's no O2 sensor in the exhaust and, therefore, no O2 sensor bung in the pipe. Exactly the opposite of the EFI Vespas.

sc00ter · Post by **sc00ter** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:02 pm

Verdict is in-the NCY WILL work on a 170i. I'll have to get a better look at a 170i next time I see one. Kinda of curious as to how that system is set up.

agrogod · Post by **agrogod** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:37 pm

The reason why the engine needs the oxygen sensor is because the amount of oxygen that the engine can pull in depends on all sorts of things, such as the altitude, the temperature of the air, the temperature of the engine, the barometric pressure, the load on the engine, etc.
When the oxygen sensor fails, the computer can no longer sense the air/fuel ratio, so it ends up guessing. Your car performs poorly and uses more fuel than it needs to.

This statement was taken from How Stuff Works http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question257.htm

I say BS on this, the 170i proves that you can still get good fuel economy without all the excess junk that is put on vehicles today. Anything to jack the cost up for profit. If all these so called fuel saving devices work so well, why are most cars, trucks, motorcycles, etc. still only getting less than one hundred miles per gallon? CONSPIRACY I tell you, or what ever your theory is.

Go for that NCY exhaust Witch, your Buddy will love you for it.

SYMbionic Duo · Post by **SYMbionic Duo** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:03 pm

Most scooter EFI systems are open loop, meaning that there is no o2 sensor in the exhaust.

Adding the o2 sensor to the exhaust increases the cost and complexity on what is supposed to be cheap transportation.

EFI has 2 benefits 1. is more efficient metering of fuel so that you can get both more mpg and more power and less harmful exhaust emissions.

2. a closed loop monitors the exhaust and can adjust for air density changes ie. Altitude and Humidity. These gains are usually not worth the extra cost and complexity and maintenance that they provide.

-duo

Witch · Post by **Witch** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:17 am

Alright, I've got the thing, now I'm just having trouble getting the old one off.

I can deal with the bolts on the exhaust mount by the wheel. I can deal with the right-side one under the engine. It's that blasted left-side one I cannot get to enough to loosen it. My socket wrench simply will not fit between the bolt and that metal bit of the frame (or whatever) that's in the way, and an extender doesn't help either. It's on there a bit too tight for me to try and twist the socket with my fingers, sans wrench.

Suggestions?

I'm still taking baby steps as far as wrenching on my own bike, so apologies if it's something obvious that I just haven't figured out yet.

I certainly hope my Buddy loves this new exhaust. When I went out on Monday, the stock one had got to the point that just thumping it on the heat shield with my finger made it rattle.

sc00ter · Post by **sc00ter** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:30 am

I think I used a long handle open end wrench to get that side off, or was it the short handle? Same size as the socket you are using. Either way you need a open end wrench if my memory serves me right. I forgot the torque, I just did it by hand. I use a crows foot if the torque was important to me. I have yet to have a exhaust nut fall off.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:19 am

Witch wrote:Suggestions?

Yes, please be careful when you put the nuts back on. Those threaded posts to which the exhaust is bolted are called "studs" and you do not want to cross-thread them or break them. Do a Google search on the following:

modernvespa.com stripped exhaust stud

and you will see why. More than a couple folks on Modern Vespa have come to grief this way. You'll be fine, I'm sure. Just take an extra second and be careful when you bolt it back up.

Good Luck!

lascooterservice · Post by **lascooterservice** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:36 am

Witch wrote:I can deal with the bolts on the exhaust mount by the wheel. I can deal with the right-side one under the engine. It's that blasted left-side one I cannot get to enough to loosen it. My socket wrench simply will not fit between the bolt and that metal bit of the frame (or whatever) that's in the way, and an extender doesn't help either. It's on there a bit too tight for me to try and twist the socket with my fingers, sans wrench.

Suggestions?

the oil cooler lines run right next to that side of the exhaust so approach with caution; in that section they're steel so you can't really just shove them up and out of the way. the best method of attack is with a 3"~5" wobble extension and a 12pt shallow well 3/8" drive socket. alternatively, you could use a 12mm universal socket in there as well. either way, a 3/8" handle with some combo of extensions should get you where you need to be.

if you get stuck, snap it all back together and come and see us at the shop and i'll be more than happy to throw it up on the rack and walk you through it.

best,
-greasy

Witch · Post by **Witch** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:18 am

The new exhaust is AWESOME!!!

I didn't really get a chance to open it up due to the lovely weather we're having here in LA right now, but I still noticed a huge difference. It's louder than I expected, but now it's a healthy throaty growl. It rides so much smoother, I ended up going faster than I realized I was, and it's very responsive now. There's no hitch when it lets up on deceleration, and no backfiring. I can't wait for the weather to settle down and really take it out on the road.

I got the exhaust swapped out just in time. Apparently the stock one was just from a bad batch or something. It sounded like a can full of rocks when it came off!

Major props to LA Scooter Service for assistance. And tool recommendations.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:08 am

Glad you got it on, Witch, and good on lascooterservice for the assist.

theemptythrone · Post by **theemptythrone** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:26 am

heck yes, you should post some pics of that bad mama jama

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:08 pm

yes! give us a review, Witch! Maybe post a video with the sound!

I'm still fine with my Prima exhaust, even if it doesn't really add 'performance'. I have another I bought at half price too.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:35 am

Witch wrote:Major props to LA Scooter Service for assistance. And tool recommendations.

The rest of us wish that we were w/in driving distance of a service call by greasy. Glad to hear you got it straightened out and it's working well. I second the request for a Youtube video, the louder the better.

Witch · Post by **Witch** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:37 am

Due to popular demand:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/6Y__X1p4dZE?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

brianwheelies · Post by **brianwheelies** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:23 am

Sounds good. I think the air scoop over the forced air intake is loose. May want to tighten the screws.

Witch · Post by **Witch** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:31 pm

That's actually just the vibrations at different engine speeds giving it that illusion--I did check after you mentioned it. Nice observation, though.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:34 am

I'm currently laying on the floor going...

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:42 pm

yay!

I dunno if I would swap my Prima for it, but if I got another, I think the NCY produces a great tone!

lascooterservice · Post by **lascooterservice** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:08 pm

post mortem analysis shows that the factory unit was proper knackered.

i'll try and get some pix up later today.

-g

soakland · Post by **soakland** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:51 pm

I don't hear much of a difference between that and the stock exhaust, have you removed the db killer?

Witch · Post by **Witch** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:37 am

I do have the decibel killer in it. It's already loud enough for my personal tastes. I will say that it sounds the coolest of all scooter/exhaust combos that I have had thus far, even though I don't usually care much about that.

It's been so long since I rode another Buddy 170i that I can't properly compare it to a stock one myself. But trust me, it's much better than it was on account of the condition the original exhaust was in. I took it up to nearly 55 today and it seemed to be perfectly happy.

I'll probably ride out to Ojai as soon as I get a chance to see how it does on the hills. I did that a couple months ago, and it was not doing very well on the incline. When I stopped for gas before getting on the 150, the gas cap practically rocketed off from the pressure. Hopefully it'll do better with the NCY, because I really do like escaping to Ojai as often as I can do so.

Modern Buddy

NCY exhaust on a 170i (now with video)

NCY exhaust on a 170i (now with video)

Re: NCY exhaust on a 170i