ATTN Honda Helix owners! Need some advice! [NBR, obvs]

[LunaP]

Hey all! I know, I haven't posted in a while... I've been lurking

I have a good friend who lives in Chicago, and over the past year or so he's become slowly but steadily interested in owning a bike. This may or may not be my fault.

Anyway, he got his M Class last week, and so now he's looking for his first bike. He's kind of got his heart set on a Honda Helix... he's a tall, big dude and will be using it for daily commute, so I recommended them to him and he rather likes the shape of them.

Thing is, neither he or I know much about them mechanically. I don't know about those little ticks and quirks that every bike model has some of, I don't know what in particular, if anything, to tell him to look for when he goes to check one out. I know we have more than a handful a people that have joined the sofa-on-wheels club

So, give us any pieces of advice you can think of! Also, if you know of a good Helix at a good price near Chicago, or in the VA/MD/DC area, please let me know- he drives here to visit at least twice a year. We've been trolling CL but want to know of any sell that might be more like a word-of-mouth deal, or maybe a shop has one somewhere on consignment.

Cheers!

[charlie55]

OK, here are a few common things to look for:

- Cracked intake boot between the carb and head: Up until about the 2000's, the entire weight of the intake plenum and carburetor was borne by this rubber boot. As a consequence, the boot tended to crack over time, resulting in a lean condition with hard starts. After 2000, or so, Honda added a metal support bracket between the valve cover and carb. This eliminated the stress and flexing of the boot. You can purchase them for installation on older models.

- Lean condition backfiring on deceleration: Most often this is due to either the degradation or improper installation of the graphite gasket between the exhaust manifold and muffler. Over time, this can damage the exhaust valve if the backfiring is serious enough. This can also be caused by a faulty deceleration valve on the carburetor, but that's not as common.

- As a safety feature, the engine will not start unless the foot brake is depressed. Over time, you need to press harder and harder as the brake cable stretches and everything wears. There is a small button on the left side of the tunnel. If you pop it off, you can see a ratchet adjuster that you can rotate with a flat-blade screwdriver. This adjusts the pre-tension on the brake/starter interlock so that you can counteract the problem.

- The plexiglass cover for the instrument cluster does not seem to take kindly to chemical cleaners/polishes such as Armor-All. The plastic tends to craze, making the cluster almost unusable. Just use a damp paper towel and leave it at that.

- Don't be tempted by cheap aftermarket parts intended for the CFMoto and QLink Helix knockoffs. They're crap (ask Peabody). Always, always go OEM: it's money well-spent. Same for the belts: the Honda/Bando OEMs are expensive, but they fit and work correctly. The tolerances on the aftermarket belts are sloppy, and a lot of distributors get the inside and outside circumference confused, so you wind up with a belt that's either too loose or too tight.

In terms of safety, the OEM brake light is situated too low, and becomes virtually invisible to close-following vehicles. The addition of a high-mounted brake light is a "must" in my opinion.

[skully93]

OK, here are a few common things to look for:

- Cracked intake boot between the carb and head: Up until about the 2000's, the entire weight of the intake plenum and carburetor was borne by this rubber boot. As a consequence, the boot tended to crack over time, resulting in a lean condition with hard starts. After 2000, or so, Honda added a metal support bracket between the valve cover and carb. This eliminated the stress and flexing of the boot. You can purchase them for installation on older models.

- As a safety feature, the engine will not start unless the foot brake is depressed. Over time, you need to press harder and harder as the brake cable stretches and everything wears. There is a small button on the left side of the tunnel. If you pop it off, you can see a ratchet adjuster that you can rotate with a flat-blade screwdriver. This adjusts the pre-tension on the brake/starter interlock so that you can counteract the problem.

I have these two issues with mine. it's a bear to start if it's been sitting, though once it has started for the day it usually fires right up!

1) do you happen to know what I would look for on the carb boot/bracket? I'd like to rectify that bad boy so it could be ridden easy.

2) When you say "here is a small button on the left side of the tunnel", what do you mean by that? The left side of the tunnel on the floorboard? If so, Easy! I need to tighten that bad boy.

Thanks in advance!

Otherwise the Helix is pretty easy to work in on comparison. I changed the plug, oil and bled the front brake in about 20 min, and I am not savvy. The service manual is readily available. I think I have it in PDF format if you need it.

Only other thing I'm doing to mine is rebuilding the master cylinder. It's pretty beat up and takes a lot of force to activate.

[charlie55]

I have these two issues with mine. it's a bear to start if it's been sitting, though once it has started for the day it usually fires right up!

1) do you happen to know what I would look for on the carb boot/bracket? I'd like to rectify that bad boy so it could be ridden easy.

You can get the bracket here:

http://marketplaceadvisor.channeladviso ... =195496146

To test the boot, take the seat off, get the engine running and spray some WD40 on the boot while gently trying to move the carb left/right/up/down. Any changes in RPM and chances are that you're sucking air through a crack in the boot. If the boot's OK, then the hard starts are probably being caused by a faulty bystarter.

2) When you say "here is a small button on the left side of the tunnel", what do you mean by that? The left side of the tunnel on the floorboard? If so, Easy! I need to tighten that bad boy.

Part #17 below:

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cn250-helix- ... ml#results

Once you get a screwdriver in there, it's like adjusting a drum brake on a car. I just don't remember which direction (up or down) takes up the slack. Be advised though, this adjustment also affects the point at which the pedal activates the brake lights. If you tighten it up too much, you won't need to push the pedal very hard to get it to start, but your brake light will be "on" all the time. Too loose, and your brakes may not fully engage (too much pedal travel) and you'll never be able to engage the starter interlock. It's sort of a trial-and-error thing. Lotsa folks bypass the interlock with a jumper wire. On my to-do list for the next off-season, along with a manual override switch for the radiator fan. (I want it to come on when I think it should. Don't want to be at the mercy of a failed thermo switch.)

Thanks in advance!

Any time.

[RoaringTodd]

Would this foot brake interlock be available too for the Elite 150 would you know? I have the exact same issue, it gets harder and harder to activate the starter with the foot brake.

[RoaringTodd]

PS. sorry to hijack the thread, Luna.

I secretively like the Helix. It's so ugly it's retro. Wish I had room for one.

[charlie55]

Would this foot brake interlock be available too for the Elite 150 would you know? I have the exact same issue, it gets harder and harder to activate the starter with the foot brake.

Yup, looks like part #3 below:

http://www.jerseyshorepowersports.com/f ... veh=131816

I think that the best approach to adjusting these things is to first adjust the rear brake (via the nut/cam lever at the end of the brake cable) so that it functions optimally. Then go in and noodle with the brake light/starter interlock switch until it gives the best combination of light actuation and ease of starting.

[skully93]

Thanks for the info!

Since it's MM day weekend, and storms are imminent, I'll do some Helix tuning this weekend.

The Helix is just a special beast. I dunno how so many visual wrongs make a right, but it's a blast.

[LunaP]

PS. sorry to hijack the thread, Luna.

I secretively like the Helix. It's so ugly it's retro. Wish I had room for one.

It's totally fine! The more we know, the better the impending purchase will go

[charlie55]

You know, I tried to explain the brake light/starter interlock too quickly and wasn't entirely accurate. So, I'll try again, using the following diagram as a reference point:

http://www.jerseyshorepowersports.com/f ... veh=131757

As you can see, the cable to the rear brake (4), and the brake light/starter interlock (2), are both connected to the same pivoting shaft (11). As you apply pressure to the brake pedal, both of these are pulled. The interlock switch basically has three postions:

START (Full pressure on brake pedal): Brake light in braking (high) mode, starter circuit enabled.

RUN (no pressure on brake pedal): Brake light in running (low) mode, starter circuit disabled.

BRAKE (normal pressure on brake pedal): Brake light in braking (high) mode. starter circuit disabled.

Seeing this arrangement, the interplay between the brake cable and interlock assembly hopefully becomes clearer.

- Overtightening the brake cable to adjust for stretching and pad wear will make it very difficult, if not impossible, to depress the pedal enough to get the interlock into the "START" position.

- Too much slack in the interlock assembly will have the same effective result: you can push the pedal through the floorboard and still not get the interlock to engage.

- Too little slack in the interlock assembly will result in the interlock being in the "BRAKE" position, and your brake light will always be "on".

So, as suggested before, the first thing to do is adjust the brake cable according to spec. Basically, you tighten/loosen it such that you have the recommended amount of free play in the brake pedal. After this, you can check the operation of the interlock and adjust it as necessary.

[BuddyRaton]

Thanks charlie55!!!

I don't have a Helix and may never but great information!

[bkrdoug]

Simply a GREAT scoot!!!!----virtually bulletproof------has competed sucessfully in the "iron butt" races several times-----10-12 K miles!!--I really like mine.--a great LD scoot where my pamplona is a great urban terrorizer!!!! Bkrdoug

[skully93]

The carb needed rebuilding and the bystarter assembly replaced, so I opted for a new carb.

It was OEMSTD (I thought that was OEM...Standard). In reality it's a supposedly well made chinese carb. We shall see...

Also going for a new belt. Should be ready for a 10000 mile trip after that

[charlie55]

The carb needed rebuilding and the bystarter assembly replaced, so I opted for a new carb.

It was OEMSTD (I thought that was OEM...Standard). In reality it's a supposedly well made chinese carb. We shall see...

Also going for a new belt. Should be ready for a 10000 mile trip after that

OEMSTD? Bought it from Wincycles? Oh boy, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you. I bought one of those for my CB125 restoration project and it was an absolute P.O.S. Here's what I posted about the carb/company in another forum:

".....you're getting a China clone. I did some research on that "OEMSTD" trademark and it turns out to be registered to a company called Panda USA:

http://trademarks.justia.com/owners/panda-usa-1586376/

Panda imports its stuff from China:

http://www.importgenius.com/importers/panda-motor-usa

Both Wincycles and Panda have Miami addresses.

So, what this smells like to me is a setup wherein the same folks are engaged in both the import and retail ends of a business, using different business names. Nothing essentially wrong with that.
However, if I'm correct, the retail end of the business is using a trademark registered to the import end of the business (i.e., OEMSTD). The problem with the trademark is that it is meaningless, self-serving, and most likely meant to deceive (i.e., implies "OEM standard", but doesn't define what that "standard" is).

When I was rebuilding my CB125, I ordered a replacement carb that had the "ISO Standard" trademark (also owned by Panda) from another ebay seller and it was junk. The casting quality was poor, as was the metal itself, and the fitment/operation of the spring/slide/needle was rough."

If you'd like, I'd be willing to do the rebuild on the original carb for just the cost of the parts and shipping. That way you can run with the knockoff carb and then have a "real" one as backup when the knockoff inevitably fails.

[skully93]

I found that post after I ordered, when it dawned on me to check the brand.

I may take you up on your offer for help with a rebuild. I really want to learn to do it myself, as it doesn't seem like it would be that big of a deal. I just thought for the price, go for it...

Little did I know. Fortunately there is 0 hurry to have the Helix in perfect shape. It's a project scoot. I just happen to like it

[charlie55]

I just did a cleaning on my carb as I was having a hell of a time getting it to idle when cold. Wasn't really a rebuild since I didn't need to replace any parts.

I had suspected the bystarter (autochoke), but it tested OK. Turns out that it gets its fuel feed via a microscopic (and non-replaceable) jet and that was clogged. Dripped some acetone and then carb cleaner through the passage for a couple of days and voila, problem solved.

Let me know if and when you decide to let me have a whack at it, and I'll PM you with my address/phone/etc.

I hope that that aftermarket carb works out for you in the meantime.

[charlie55]

BTW: The jet in question is the one labelled "choke (fuel enrichment) jet" in the following example photo (not a CN250 carb, but close enough for jazz):



As you can see, it's pressed into the carb and is not replaceable like the idle and main jets. The orifice is tiny, as is the orifice at the other end (in the bottom of the port where the bystarter fits). Only large enough to pass a single strand of braided copper wire, so it's a real bear to clean out.

[charlie55]

Luna:

Check your PM. I finally got a line on that Helix for your friend.