2009 Buddy 150 CC St Tropez feels sluggish!

Msm1771 · Post by **Msm1771** » Tue May 12, 2015 8:19 pm

Hey everyone!!! =)

I currently own a 2009 Buddy 150 CC St Tropez and absolutely love it. It is my daily driver and so far I have put about 5500 miles on it in the last 15 months. I have maintained it regularly with oil,spark plug and gear oil changes every 2k miles. It has always driven quite well until now. She usually tops out at around 57 mph ( according to the buddy speedo ). Now I am able to sometimes hit that speed, but only for a very short time. During any intense acceleration or high speed, the bike starts to feel like it's sluggish in a way. Almost as if the air brake is being engaged. Any ideas of what this can be? I was thinking it could possible be that the carb needs to be cleaned as I have never cleaned it before.

Any suggestions are much appreciated!

Happy scooting!
Matthew

KABarash · Post by **KABarash** » Tue May 12, 2015 8:40 pm

A dose or two of sea foam and/or a thorough carb cleaning may be in order. When was the last time if any have you looked at or changed out your belt and rollers. I think the service interval on those is about 8000 miles. I had nearly doubled that when I had mine replaced last year. Runs like a champ afterwards, just the other day I saw an indicated 65mph, pretty much the usual for me.

Msm1771 · Post by **Msm1771** » Tue May 12, 2015 9:03 pm

KABarash wrote:A dose or two of sea foam and/or a thorough carb cleaning may be in order. When was the last time if any have you looked at or changed out your belt and rollers. I think the service interval on those is about 8000 miles. I had nearly doubled that when I had mine replaced last year. Runs like a champ afterwards, just the other day I saw an indicated 65mph, pretty much the usual for me.

I was told to never use Seafoam unless I don't drive the bike for a while. Since I drive it everyday I haven't had the need to use it. I have never used any carb cleaner since I have no idea which one to use nor how much of it to use. In regards to cleaning the belt or rollers I have never had any of that done either. Under the seat of the bike it does recommend to have the belt replaced at 9k miles. There is a little sticker that says that. Is it hard to do it yourself? If so, how much would I be expecting to pay to have it done at a Vespa mechanic? By the way hitting 65mph is impressive!! Was it downhill?

tiii · Post by **tiii** » Tue May 12, 2015 9:14 pm

If you've been running it on a daily basis, It'd take an awful lot to dirty up your carb.
Have you changed anything recently? What mileage is it at now? If there's enough gunk trapped in the fuel filter, WFO throttle might make it act like it's gas starved.

KABarash · Post by **KABarash** » Tue May 12, 2015 9:29 pm

Seafoam, I'm a big fan of anything that'll help keep the carb clean. There's other products that do the same, as for only using something for when the scoot sits, wouldn't a stabiliser be better suited? Seafoam is an additive that helps clean the carb.
The charges for a 'transmission service' will vary wildly dependant on location. My shop is a 'Genuine' shop but he works on just about anything, I don't think that charge was much above $150 including parts.
As for my attaining 65mph, indicated, I was on generally flat ground a grade one way or another, a little up, a little down. T'is usual for me to see that, I don't weigh but 150 pounds soaking wet in full gear....

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Tue May 12, 2015 9:55 pm

I run the seafoam through ever several tanks in the warmer months, and top it off more often in the Winter months, even though they rarely sit long.

I'd still bet your belt/rollers are needing some love. Never hurts to have some professional eyes take it apart and put it back together again. Good to check the brakes about then too, though mine lasted fine until 10k.

DeeDee · Post by **DeeDee** » Tue May 12, 2015 11:32 pm

How many miles on the scooter?
Have you checked your tire air pressure?
Seafoam helps counteract the effects of ethanol in your gas. It's a good idea to use it every 3 or 4 tanks even if you ride regularly.

Msm1771 · Post by **Msm1771** » Wed May 13, 2015 2:00 am

DeeDee wrote:How many miles on the scooter?
Have you checked your tire air pressure?
Seafoam helps counteract the effects of ethanol in your gas. It's a good idea to use it every 3 or 4 tanks even if you ride regularly.

6500 miles
tire pressure is okay.
I will start adding sea foam again. That seems to be the cheapest potential fix there is.

Msm1771 · Post by **Msm1771** » Wed May 13, 2015 2:02 am

skully93 wrote:I run the seafoam through ever several tanks in the warmer months, and top it off more often in the Winter months, even though they rarely sit long.

I'd still bet your belt/rollers are needing some love. Never hurts to have some professional eyes take it apart and put it back together again. Good to check the brakes about then too, though mine lasted fine until 10k.

The brakes right now seem to be working great. I always apply minimal pressure whenever braking. The bike currently has 6500 miles on it

Msm1771 · Post by **Msm1771** » Wed May 13, 2015 2:05 am

tiii wrote:If you've been running it on a daily basis, It'd take an awful lot to dirty up your carb.
Have you changed anything recently? What mileage is it at now? If there's enough gunk trapped in the fuel filter, WFO throttle might make it act like it's gas starved.

Its at 6500 miles. Nothing has changed at all. Also, I have never cleaned the air filter before if that could be a problem. I dont know what WFO throttle means. ( now i do lol googled it )I really don't know what the issue is. Absolutely nothing has changed. How often do these bikes usually last given that they are properly maintained?

Msm1771 · Post by **Msm1771** » Wed May 13, 2015 2:07 am

KABarash wrote:Seafoam, I'm a big fan of anything that'll help keep the carb clean. There's other products that do the same, as for only using something for when the scoot sits, wouldn't a stabiliser be better suited? Seafoam is an additive that helps clean the carb.
The charges for a 'transmission service' will vary wildly dependant on location. My shop is a 'Genuine' shop but he works on just about anything, I don't think that charge was much above $150 including parts.
As for my attaining 65mph, indicated, I was on generally flat ground a grade one way or another, a little up, a little down. T'is usual for me to see that, I don't weigh but 150 pounds soaking wet in full gear....

I used to use seafoam all the time but never noticed a positive effect from it. There are so many mixed reviews on it. I will more than likely end up giving it another try tomorrow. 150$ isnt that bad. My place is more than likely going to charge more than that just because of the rent they have to pay.

DeeDee · Post by **DeeDee** » Wed May 13, 2015 2:42 am

Air filter would be spent around 4k. At 6,500 miles your belt, variator and rollers should still have some life. Are you sure the oil is not overfilled? I don't know where you are getting mixed reviews for seafoam. Amazon has 200 5 star reviews for every review less than 5 starts. That's hardly mixed.

Msm1771 · Post by **Msm1771** » Wed May 13, 2015 3:17 am

DeeDee wrote:Air filter would be spent around 4k. At 6,500 miles your belt, variator and rollers should still have some life. Are you sure the oil is not overfilled? I don't know where you are getting mixed reviews for seafoam. Amazon has 200 5 star reviews for every review less than 5 starts. That's hardly mixed.

I get mixed reviews on sea foam in terms of using it on my bike when its I never let it sit for more than a day. I am pretty sure the oil isn't overfilled. When I check the oil levels, the dipstick has oil all the up to the top of the stick. I could try an upload a photo of how full it is. One problem that I forgot to note is that there has ALWAYS been a loud hissing sound that comes from the engine under hard acceleration. It sounds like some type of air leak coming from somewhere on the engine. When this happens the bike loses power.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Wed May 13, 2015 1:55 pm

Msm1771 wrote: When I check the oil levels, the dipstick has oil all the up to the top of the stick.

I dearly hope this is a typo.

Hopefully you mean that the oil covers the top of the crosshatched section of the dipstick, not the whole stick. The whole stick would be galactically-overfilled

You should check the level with the dipstick screwed all the way in, rather than like on some bikes where it's done with the stick unscrewed.

HowHH · Post by **HowHH** » Wed May 13, 2015 2:12 pm

Matthew,

You don't mention whether or not your regular maintenance includes a valve check. If not, at 5500 miles you are due. Exhaust valves have a tendency to tighten over time. Performance can suffer. Eventually you can burn a valve, leading to an expensive repair.

On my Blackjack I put off an overdue valve check over the winter. I finally got around to it prior to a rally weekend this spring. I was anticipating doing a lot of miles, much of it at speed. I'm glad I did not delay any longer. My exhaust valve had tightened up significantly. The clearance should be .08mm, but the largest feeler gauge I could get through was .03mm. Narrowly avoided disaster!

It's not too difficult to do. Here are a couple of guides with pics:

topic5671.html

topic8312.html

There is also the service manual:

http://modernbuddy.com/pdf/buddy125_service_manual.pdf

You may or not have have some trouble with getting the valve cover off the motor. Depending on the adjustment of your shock there may be limited frame clearance. Taking the scooter off the center stand and putting it on the side stand did it for me.

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Wed May 13, 2015 2:33 pm

DeeDee wrote:Air filter would be spent around 4k.

My air filter has 33,700 miles on it and the scooter runs great(fuel filter has the same miles on it.) I just give it a little wipe down every 4-8k.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Wed May 13, 2015 2:46 pm

scootERIK wrote:
DeeDee wrote:Air filter would be spent around 4k.
My air filter has 33,700 miles on it and the scooter runs great(fuel filter has the same miles on it.) I just give it a little wipe down every 4-8k.

For the $15, I just buy a new one every other service. We hit some dirt trails from time to time, and the city is dirty. Plus I need this thing to last 100k

.

rodneydnelson · Post by **rodneydnelson** » Wed May 13, 2015 3:21 pm

I bet the oil is overfilled. My St.Tropez had this issue two years ago. It was fine at low speed, but the top end was sluggish and I couldn't reach the speeds that i could previously. After trying everything else, I decided to try removing a little oil. That fixed it immediately. It turns out that the dealership had put too much in at a recent oil change. It was only a little bit extra, but it made all the difference.

Msm1771 · Post by **Msm1771** » Wed May 13, 2015 3:24 pm

PeteH wrote:
Msm1771 wrote: When I check the oil levels, the dipstick has oil all the up to the top of the stick.
I dearly hope this is a typo.

Hopefully you mean that the oil covers the top of the crosshatched section of the dipstick, not the whole stick. The whole stick would be galactically-overfilled

You should check the level with the dipstick screwed all the way in, rather than like on some bikes where it's done with the stick unscrewed.

The oil is filled to the top of the crosshatched section! Not the whole stick lol! I didnt know what to call that section.

Msm1771 · Post by **Msm1771** » Wed May 13, 2015 3:29 pm

rodneydnelson wrote:I bet the oil is overfilled. My St.Tropez had this issue two years ago. It was fine at low speed, but the top end was sluggish and I couldn't reach the speeds that i could previously. After trying everything else, I decided to try removing a little oil. That fixed it immediately. It turns out that the dealership had put too much in at a recent oil change. It was only a little bit extra, but it made all the difference.

Today im going to recheck the oil levels, add some seafoam and see try to clean the air filter ( not sure how to do this take the cover off it always seems stuck)

Msm1771 · Post by **Msm1771** » Wed May 13, 2015 3:31 pm

HowHH wrote:Matthew,

You don't mention whether or not your regular maintenance includes a valve check. If not, at 5500 miles you are due. Exhaust valves have a tendency to tighten over time. Performance can suffer. Eventually you can burn a valve, leading to an expensive repair.

On my Blackjack I put off an overdue valve check over the winter. I finally got around to it prior to a rally weekend this spring. I was anticipating doing a lot of miles, much of it at speed. I'm glad I did not delay any longer. My exhaust valve had tightened up significantly. The clearance should be .08mm, but the largest feeler gauge I could get through was .03mm. Narrowly avoided disaster!

It's not too difficult to do. Here are a couple of guides with pics:

topic5671.html

topic8312.html

There is also the service manual:

http://modernbuddy.com/pdf/buddy125_service_manual.pdf

You may or not have have some trouble with getting the valve cover off the motor. Depending on the adjustment of your shock there may be limited frame clearance. Taking the scooter off the center stand and putting it on the side stand did it for me.

I am not sure if thats part of the regular maintenance or not. Im assuming it will be in the owners manual correct? I will look through again to see if it is there. It looks a little difficult to do the valve check done. I will need to buy more tools.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Wed May 13, 2015 6:07 pm

A valve set only needs basic tools - feeler gauges, a screwdriver and a wrench (box, open-end, or even a small adjustable) plus an optional bigger wrench (to horse the crankshaft around to the mark) are all you really need. There's a nice MotionPro combination tool which lets you combine the setscrew and locknut tasks in one. I bought it just recently but haven't yet used it.

Msm1771 · Post by **Msm1771** » Wed May 13, 2015 8:18 pm

PeteH wrote:A valve set only needs basic tools - feeler gauges, a screwdriver and a wrench (box, open-end, or even a small adjustable) plus an optional bigger wrench (to horse the crankshaft around to the mark) are all you really need. There's a nice MotionPro combination tool which lets you combine the setscrew and locknut tasks in one. I bought it just recently but haven't yet used it.

Great I will look into it. I just took her out for a ride and had trouble even getting above 40mph on a flat surface. I think the oil was a little high. I took the dipstick out after riding cleaned it off and checked the oil and it was a little high. Im not sure when im supposed to check the oil exactly. A big splash of oil actually fell out of the bike when i was moving it a couple feet to flatter ground and i left the diptick out. If anything now it has low oil or just enough.

Neurotic-Hapi-Snak · Post by **Neurotic-Hapi-Snak** » Wed May 13, 2015 9:21 pm

PeteH wrote:There's a nice MotionPro combination tool which lets you combine the setscrew and locknut tasks in one. I bought it just recently but haven't yet used it.

http://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08-007 ... pet+wrench
It's a godsend.

HowHH · Post by **HowHH** » Wed May 13, 2015 10:39 pm

Msm1771 wrote:Great I will look into it. I just took her out for a ride and had trouble even getting above 40mph on a flat surface. I think the oil was a little high. I took the dipstick out after riding cleaned it off and checked the oil and it was a little high. Im not sure when im supposed to check the oil exactly. A big splash of oil actually fell out of the bike when i was moving it a couple feet to flatter ground and i left the diptick out. If anything now it has low oil or just enough.

If there is a chance that your performance issue is a too tight exhaust valve, I would recommend playing it safe and no riding until you sort it out. If you end up burning a valve, then it's done. Getting the clearance back in spec will not cure a burned valve

Msm1771 · Post by **Msm1771** » Wed May 13, 2015 10:58 pm

HowHH wrote:
Msm1771 wrote:Great I will look into it. I just took her out for a ride and had trouble even getting above 40mph on a flat surface. I think the oil was a little high. I took the dipstick out after riding cleaned it off and checked the oil and it was a little high. Im not sure when im supposed to check the oil exactly. A big splash of oil actually fell out of the bike when i was moving it a couple feet to flatter ground and i left the diptick out. If anything now it has low oil or just enough.
If there is a chance that your performance issue is a too tight exhaust valve, I would recommend playing it safe and no riding until you sort it out. If you end up burning a valve, then it's done. Getting the clearance back in spec will not cure a burned valve

After taking a little oil out of the engine and adding some seafoam i noticed a inprovement almost immediately. I actually just hit a new top speed of 65mph. This was within 10 miles of adding seafoam and taking some oil out. Wind seems to be my biggest enemy in terms of speed. Even a little wind slows me down 10mph.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Thu May 14, 2015 3:42 am

So, will you add the oil back in to determine if it was the oil or the SeaFoam?

Msm1771 · Post by **Msm1771** » Thu May 14, 2015 4:42 am

PeteH wrote:So, will you add the oil back in to determine if it was the oil or the SeaFoam?

Well, it's not running perfect yet and I still need to apparently clean the rollers, do a valve check and also clean the air filter.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Thu May 14, 2015 4:53 am

KABarash wrote:Seafoam.I don't weigh but 150 pounds soaking wet in full gear....

Such a rush of emotion....I'd like to thank......

Whoever you are, you are a fine scooterist....

HowHH · Post by **HowHH** » Thu May 14, 2015 1:55 pm

Msm1771 wrote:After taking a little oil out of the engine and adding some seafoam i noticed a inprovement almost immediately. I actually just hit a new top speed of 65mph. This was within 10 miles of adding seafoam and taking some oil out. Wind seems to be my biggest enemy in terms of speed. Even a little wind slows me down 10mph.

That's a positve development! Don't neglect that valve adjustment though. The mileage you've put on the scooter in the last 15 months alone is more than enough. I think Genuine recommends every 4000K.

rodneydnelson · Post by **rodneydnelson** » Thu May 14, 2015 10:59 pm

Msm1771 wrote: After taking a little oil out of the engine and adding some seafoam i noticed a inprovement almost immediately. I actually just hit a new top speed of 65mph. This was within 10 miles of adding seafoam and taking some oil out. Wind seems to be my biggest enemy in terms of speed. Even a little wind slows me down 10mph.

I'm glad it worked. The Buddy is sensitive to a slight oil overfill.

Msm1771 · Post by **Msm1771** » Fri May 15, 2015 2:00 am

HowHH wrote:
Msm1771 wrote:After taking a little oil out of the engine and adding some seafoam i noticed a inprovement almost immediately. I actually just hit a new top speed of 65mph. This was within 10 miles of adding seafoam and taking some oil out. Wind seems to be my biggest enemy in terms of speed. Even a little wind slows me down 10mph.
That's a positve development! Don't neglect that valve adjustment though. The mileage you've put on the scooter in the last 15 months alone is more than enough. I think Genuine recommends every 4000K.

A little update. After driving today i continued to have the same experience. My bike is very strange so let me explain the best I can. Whenever i go above half throttle, i hear some type of leaking noise. When I hear this sound my accelrration suffers tremendously and I cant break 45mph on the speedometer. Sometimes when I accelerate, i dont hear the air whistling/hissing sound and my bike FLIES! I hit 65+ mph sometimes and then that hissing/leaking sound comes and the bike slows down rapidly. I noticed today that my bike wouldnt even break 50mph driving down a steep hill. At around 49mph the bike would just jerk forward as if you slammed the brakes and let go.

I was testing my speed by driving up and down this one bridge multiple times. The bridge was the macarthur causeway for anyone familiar with Miami.I would be able to hit about 55 going over the bridge sometimes and other tomes only 35mph because that damn hissing sound would happen. This is a problem my bike has always had though since I purchased it. I think i am just going to drop it off at the mechanic and tell them to look at everything. I dont know what to do. On a side note, the oil was way overfilled! Apparently you are supposed to use the center stand and then check the oil. When you use the dipstick you are not supposed to screw it in- you are just suposed to dip it and make sure the oil is in the gaged area. After dumping a bunch of oil out, the levels were still really really high. I ended up finally getting the oil to a good level.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Fri May 15, 2015 2:09 am

Nope - on the Buddy, screw in the dipstick. There are threads around here that verify the oil level against a known quantity of oil. On Hondas, on the other hand, the manual says NOT to screw it in. Doing it with the stick unthreaded will make you add too much to reach the too-high stick.

Dunno about the leaky sound. You might check your carb's intake and manifold connections to make sure all is snug and air is being properly introduced to the carb and engine.

Msm1771 · Post by **Msm1771** » Fri May 15, 2015 2:12 am

PeteH wrote:Nope - on the Buddy, screw in the dipstick. There are threads around here that verify the oil level against a known quantity of oil. On Hondas, on the other hand, the manual says NOT to screw it in.

Oh okay. Well without the dipstick screwed in, the oil was about halfway in the gaged area. Im assuming the levels are still a little high then. I took out SO much oil and it still was high. I usually just follow the one youtube video of a buddy 150 oil change. I add usually 250ml of oil after I drain the oil and replace the filter.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Fri May 15, 2015 2:15 am

250ml?? The Buddy holds something like 900.

Msm1771 · Post by **Msm1771** » Fri May 15, 2015 2:20 am

PeteH wrote:250ml?? The Buddy holds something like 900.

Oh maybe its higher i honestly forget. It usually ends up being most of the whole quart. If i was riding the bike hard for a while and let it sit 10 min and check the oil, would that still give me an unaccurate reading?

Msm1771 · Post by **Msm1771** » Fri May 15, 2015 3:21 am

I think the problem is 100% a blow exhaust gasket vaccume leak or air leak or exaust valve. I can literally hear air coming out of somewhere during half throttle and up.

rick71454 · Post by **rick71454** » Wed May 27, 2015 1:22 am

Hello Msm1771:

I just created a post called "Engine Sputtering - Spark Plug Wire". It was a spark plug wire going bad, that gave me the past 1.5 years of a sputtering, lost of power, sometimes cannot reach top speed sub performance. I changed the spark plug wire and that got my scooter going like it is designed for.

In my case, it was not spark plug, not fuel filter, not air filter, not valves, not roller weights, no CDI, or any of that.

Also, from my own experience, putting excess oil into engine can cause it to run sluggish and stall out.

Sincerely
Rick71454

Modern Buddy

2009 Buddy 150 CC St Tropez feels sluggish!

2009 Buddy 150 CC St Tropez feels sluggish!

It's the oil

Re: It's the oil