Added prima Pipe

wheelbender6 · Post by **wheelbender6** » Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:27 am

Put a Prima pipe on my Genuine Buddy today. Takes about 10 minutes to get stock exhaust off with a ratchet and sockets. New pipe feels lighter. Header pipe isn’t much different. Tail of the Prima is much bigger.

I hung the new pipe rather quickly. When I fired it up, sounded like something went badly wrong.
I found the crush ring between the pipe and head had slipped out of position. After straightening the bent crush ring with a rubber mallet, I slowly reinstalled the new pipe.
Sounds great now with a nice deep idle, that makes it sound like a bigger engine.
My Schnauzer was not very helpful.

sc00ter · Post by **sc00ter** » Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:43 am

If you like sporty riding watch the header pipe, it will touch down on rights. We made a small brass or copper (forgot what material) wrap around with a small clamp in the touch down area. Scrape, wear out and repeat. I actually got the idea from this site, as someone else was grinding the rights. The Primas do sound great. You at stock main jet or did you up jet? We were told sea level was stock jet safe, but we went up one main jet # as a precaution. Did a bunch of WOT runs at the time.

wheelbender6 · Post by **wheelbender6** » Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:16 pm

I did jet up to #95 before installing the exhaust. Spark plug was mostly white in stock tune.
-I have not rechecked the plug since the pipe install. I made a vino run to the store but frequent rain showers kept the Buddy in the garage.
-I want to read the spark plug again after a commute to work (60 miles round trip) before I decide if a bigger jet is still needed. Plenty of opportunities for WOT during my commute.
-Thanks for the tip about the header protector. I'm sure I can find something in my garage to strap-on and protect it.
-The pipe and jets were part of the Prima Stage I kit I bought. I may order some sliders instead of installing the rollers in the kit.

wheelbender6 · Post by **wheelbender6** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:23 am

I checked the plug this afternoon and it looks like the 95 jet is working well with the Prima pipe. Sooo, I decided to tinker with the air box.
The dirty side has two chambers separated by a tube to settle out debris and reduce intake noise.

I found that the little wall that separates the two chambers is easily removable.

-I took a test ride with the intake baffle removed and was disappointed. Torque seemed to be down across the board. Perhaps a hotter CDI would help with that.
-I will stick with the stock airbox with baffle for now. The pipe and 95 jet gave me a nice mid-range boost.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:54 pm

I've had the pipe on for 10k miles, along with some aftermarket parts but no real 'performance mods' There's not really a huge gain from most of it unless you do some heavy modding. Enjoy the pipe, maybe get some sliders, and just enjoy!

jd · Post by jd » Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:49 pm

I'm pleased that you're enjoying your Prima pipe, but I COULDN'T WAIT to get it off the Blackjack I bought. The noise was horrendous, and gave me (or my wife) a headache after about 35 miles of riding.

A long ride was out of the question. I was prepared to pay money to make that thing go away, because the bike was essentially useless to me as it was.

I swapped it out for a standard 125 pipe and had peace at last. Just to be sure, I measured top speed with a GPS both before and after the switch and got exactly the same measurement: 68-69 MPH. Whether or not acceleration was affected I cannot say. The bike seemed sufficiently zippy in both configurations. And the important parts of the Blackjack modifications are in the suspension, anyway. I think the pipe is just to generate testosterone --- and if I felt I needed more of that, riding a little scooter would probably not be the way I'd try to acquire it.

For me, that Prima pipe was a classic case of "Big hat, no cattle." But some people like big hats, anyway, which is why they make lots of different hats and lots of different scooters.

I hope you get as much joy from your Prima pipe as I got annoyance from mine!

wheelbender6 · Post by **wheelbender6** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:13 pm

I probably will get some 11g sliders next, skully93. Then I plan to just enjoy the fall weather on my Buddy.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:36 pm

jd wrote:I measured top speed with a GPS both before and after the switch and got exactly the same measurement: 68-69 MPH.

That's a pretty darn fast 125! That's about 5 to 7 mph faster than most people get.

jd · Post by jd » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:14 pm

k1dude wrote:
jd wrote:I measured top speed with a GPS both before and after the switch and got exactly the same measurement: 68-69 MPH.
That's a pretty darn fast 125! That's about 5 to 7 mph faster than most people get.

Note that it is a Buddy Blackjack, which is 150 cc. My other Buddy, a 2009 125cc model, has a top GPS speed of 58-59 MPH.

For reference, I'm about 165 lbs.

Anyone who tells you his or her Buddy 125 goes over 60 MPH is using the speedometer rather than a GPS to measure it. 58 MPH as measured with GPS shows as 65+ MPH on the Buddy's speedo.

joebug · Post by **joebug** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:52 pm

This is the most informative post regarding the prima pipe and jetting. The people at scooterworks are great and all but have no idea about jetting this pipe and some have no idea there is a baffle in the airbox... I'm still waiting for a call back from their tech dept. It's been a couple weeks now. I'm not really waiting though...
I put this pipe on and lost performance on the top end so I jetted with a 100 jet and top speed was 50 mph on the GPS with the baffle removed, put the baffle in and got it up to 53. I jetted down to a 95 with the baffle still in and top speed was 57... i didn't check the plug though, but I could smell the 100 jet was too rich. I'm going to install a Denso plug...much better than an NGK in my opinion, it seems to pull nicely through the mid range now and top speed has improved....most of the gain is in the low to mid range where I like it... top speed is really only achieved with WOT and I'm not comfortable with that since the scoot is new.

Wobbly Python · Post by **Wobbly Python** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:18 am

Seeing the stock pipe next to the Prima pipe makes me realize exactly how funny looking the stock one is.

Maybe I need more chrome in my life...

jd · Post by jd » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:36 pm

joebug wrote:This is the most informative post regarding the prima pipe and jetting. The people at scooterworks are great and all but have no idea about jetting this pipe and some have no idea there is a baffle in the airbox... I'm still waiting for a call back from their tech dept. It's been a couple weeks now. I'm not really waiting though...
I put this pipe on and lost performance on the top end so I jetted with a 100 jet and top speed was 50 mph on the GPS with the baffle removed, put the baffle in and got it up to 53. I jetted down to a 95 with the baffle still in and top speed was 57... i didn't check the plug though, but I could smell the 100 jet was too rich. I'm going to install a Denso plug...much better than an NGK in my opinion, it seems to pull nicely through the mid range now and top speed has improved....most of the gain is in the low to mid range where I like it... top speed is really only achieved with WOT and I'm not comfortable with that since the scoot is new.

I will not claim to be a complete expert on jetting, but my personal experience indicates that while two-stroke engines must be rejetted whenever the back pressure has been modified, e.g., by changing the muffler, four-stroke engines do not. When I went back and forth between the stock pipe and the Prima pipe on my 150, performance didn't seem affected and top speed was exactly the same. All the Prima pipe added was superfluous noise. I do not understand why your Prima pipe affected your performance, but I wouldn't necessarily leap to the conclusion that rejetting is the proper solution. Maybe this is why the Scooterworks folks are confused. It may not make sense to them, either.

joebug · Post by **joebug** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:39 pm

The stage 1 kit that is sold by scooterworks is a prima pipe and comes with 3 different size jets a 90, 95, and a 100, light weight rollers and a clutch contra spring. Evidentally if the pipe comes with different jets they should be changed but the literature does not indicate which size to go with if your running let's say a 125 or a 150. I called them several times and nobody could help, This post has the most information I could find anywhere.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:01 pm

joebug wrote:The stage 1 kit that is sold by scooterworks is a prima pipe and comes with 3 different size jets a 90, 95, and a 100, light weight rollers and a clutch contra spring. Evidentally if the pipe comes with different jets they should be changed but the literature does not indicate which size to go with if your running let's say a 125 or a 150. I called them several times and nobody could help, This post has the most information I could find anywhere.

The final jet size is determined by a couple of factors; any other engine mods, other than the pipe, and at what altitude your particular riding location is. For instance, the jet size would be different if one were riding in San Francisco, California vs say Denver, Colorado.

joebug · Post by **joebug** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:11 pm

Very true, but I was hoping scooterworks would have had been dealing with these scooters and their pipe for so long that given what mods were on my scooter and where I was located, that they would have had a good idea of a starting point rather than saying "we don't know" let let the tech guy call you which never occurred. To me that's kind of lame and doesn't show good support for the products they sell.

jd · Post by jd » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:41 pm

joebug wrote:Very true, but I was hoping scooterworks would have had been dealing with these scooters and their pipe for so long that given what mods were on my scooter and where I was located, that they would have had a good idea of a starting point rather than saying "we don't know" let let the tech guy call you which never occurred. To me that's kind of lame and doesn't show good support for the products they sell.

I have no reason to defend Scooterworks, and if they told you the guy would call you, he should have. That's not acceptable.

That said, however, as a general rule, once you start tweaking a bike you tend to be on your own for tuning. The stock bike has been designed and tuned to work well in a wide variety of situations. As soon as you start messing with it and wandering from the stock setup, then proper tuning becomes as much art as science. I believe that most people who decide to customize the performance of a bike either have, or know how to get, the information necessary to make everything work right. From my own, albeit somewhat limited, experience, the manufacturers and sellers of aftermarket parts are not expert in how their products are going to work in a wide variety of setups. A reputable company will ensure that their product is make to a high level of quality, and then leave it to the buyer to figure out how to adapt their own bikes to work with it optimally.

This is, indeed, one of the reasons I have avoided doing anything to modify the performance of any of my three Buddys (other than to replace the Blackjack's childish, obnoxiously noisy pipe) because I don't want to deal with tuning problems anymore. If I need more power, I'll get a more powerful bike. I spent more time than I want to remember tuning and adjusting my Tomos mopeds to make them work right with all the performance parts I put on them. The parts all worked perfectly once I got the setup right, but the manufacturers did not provide guidance on how to get there. But I decided that I was spending too much time tuning and not enough time riding.

Keep researching online and be patient with your trial-and-error tests. Sometimes that's the only way to get what you want.

wheelbender6 · Post by **wheelbender6** » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:37 pm

Jetting has always been trial-and-error. Try the next jet size. Check the plug after a few rides at cruising speed. If the ceramic is too light, you are running lean and need to try a bigger jet. If the plug ceramic is too dark, switch to a lower jet size. If the electrode is a nice tan color, your jetting is good.
-These basic rules apply to any carbureted engine: 2 stroke, 4 stroke, boat, automobile, airplane, scooter, moyorcycle, etc.
-There really is no magic formula or algorithm to select your jet size. It comes down to traditional hot rodding.

joebug · Post by **joebug** » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:13 pm

I understand what you guys are saying and I agree with both of your statements and I also agree with you JD that after the money and time i used installing this pipe I believe that there is very little to almost no performance gain with it and in fact it may have decreased performance and added noise. But i cannot confirm that as of yet but It was definitely not worth what I spent. Also as you stated jd it does hold true if you want a faster scooter with more performance it's just easier to go with a larger scooter. Unless you really like messing with gas, carburetor tuning and wrenching around, and spending your free time making adjustments, leave it stock... I don't know what I was thinking to be honest. It's just a 125cc.
My initial gripe was that scooterworks sells a pipe they call performance but they don't really support it and this post has more information regarding the pipe than they can provide.

wheelbender6 · Post by **wheelbender6** » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:31 pm

I think there are advantages to the prima pipe whether you see aNY performance gain or not.
-The black paint on my stock exhaust scratched easily while moving the scoot around the garage, leading to rusty spots on it. The finish on my prima pipe does not rust.
-The prima pipe is a few lbs lighter than stock. That helps when I'm pushing it up the ramp into the back of my truck.
-To each his own.

joebug · Post by **joebug** » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:27 pm

Wheelbender, I agree that it does look better and that is one of the reasons I bought it too, the reduced weight and rust free properties add benefits too i agree..but there really isn't a "wow factor" with its performance gain, at least in the top end ....it may provide a small amount elsewhere in the powerband But it's not noticeable enough to justify $200 plus dollars as a "performance" add on. As you can tell I'm a bit disappointed with it but then I ask myself, what did I really expect from it? I guess I expected a few more mph maybe 5-7 more mph, but it didn't provide that at all....just a 200 dollar fancy looking exhaust is all it is...lol

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:40 pm

joebug wrote:My initial gripe was that scooterworks sells a pipe they call performance but they don't really support it and this post has more information regarding the pipe than they can provide.

Did you really expect a 5-7 mph gain by just changing the pipe? That would be about a 10% improvement. With a 4T scooter a different pipe alone will not lead to much change except sound. Personally I'm more concerned with performance than having a 125 sound like a "bigger bike".

It actually does make a difference...when used with other mods and in various configurations.

Welcome to the dark world of modding. Too many people want to plug and play one part and expect outstanding results.

No two scooters will react exactly the same and in general no two people set a bike up exactly the same way.

A word of warning on modding. It can be a tough learning curve. It is not unusual to blow up a motor when something isn't set up right or the motor is pushed past it's capabilities. If you are afraid of doing damage stay stock.

Why doesn't SW want to provide modding suggestions? "You told me to do this and I dropped a valve...you owe me a motor." By swapping out the exhaust to non OEM for this model you have voided the warranty for particular systems of the scooter

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:55 am

I have a simple rule. If you want speed, buy a bigger bike.

In other words, if you want 250cc performance from a 150cc, you should have bought a 250cc.

The money, time, effort, and frustration isn't worth it.

The only time it really makes sense is if you're up against class racing regs which limit displacement.

Or if you're just a tinkerer and have time and money to waste, go for it.

joebug · Post by **joebug** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:39 pm

I guess I misled myself into thinking that if I added a few "performance" parts I would get a bit more out of it, but at this point it seems Genuine already got as much out of this motor that they could without sacrificing longevity and reliability. I really don't know why my expectations were so high for this pipe, maybe because of the hype around the blackjack and how "performance" oriented it is? Probably, At this point I will not be adding anymore "performance" parts to it, but will definitely be personalizing it, and that's definitely more gratifying...lol

GregsBuddy · Post by **GregsBuddy** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:02 pm

Is the Prima pipe in the airstream of the engine cooling intake?
Preheated cooling air?

joebug · Post by **joebug** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:56 pm

GregsBuddy wrote:Is the Prima pipe in the airstream of the engine cooling intake?
Preheated cooling air?

No, basically follows the stock configuration and doesn't interfere with the air intake

jd · Post by jd » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:31 am

joebug wrote:Wheelbender, I agree that it does look better and that is one of the reasons I bought it too, the reduced weight and rust free properties add benefits too i agree..but there really isn't a "wow factor" with its performance gain, at least in the top end ....it may provide a small amount elsewhere in the powerband But it's not noticeable enough to justify $200 plus dollars as a "performance" add on. As you can tell I'm a bit disappointed with it but then I ask myself, what did I really expect from it? I guess I expected a few more mph maybe 5-7 more mph, but it didn't provide that at all....just a 200 dollar fancy looking exhaust is all it is...lol

joebug, please don't take this as an "I told you so," but if you look at my post from August 23rd you'll see that I advised you that the Prima pipe added no top end at all to my Blackjack.

The parts that make a Blackjack truly different are in the rear suspension and front fork. It rides and handles significantly differently from my stock 125. The front disc brake is better, too, although I must admit that I never felt the brake on my stock 125 was lacking in stopping power. The rear brake is the same (lousy) on both bikes.

A lot of owners mess with their Buddys because they enjoy the sport of squeezing more power out of them...for the sheer enjoyment of the fine tuning experience. If you're simply looking for fun, dependable transportation without headaches, then stock is the way to go IMO.

If you decide to go back to the stock exhaust setup, I suspect you won't have much trouble selling that Prima exhaust because they're pretty popular among the, "Hey, look at me!" crowd. You'll take a haircut on it, but it will end up costing you less than keeping it, right?

joebug · Post by **joebug** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:22 am

Yeah I hear ya... I do like the way it looks and if I get tired of the sound you'll be seeing it in the for sale section... lol
Now too bad the pipe didn't do this

https://youtu.be/HYYBYGFI8kE

Lol ...

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:41 am

As nice as the Prima pipe looks, I was thinking about getting this one because it's well made of SST - also available in a Carbon Fiber look. Cheaper than the Prima, too ($160-$170). I don't really care if it doesn't add any power, I like the looks and the fact that it's SST so will hold-up to the weather better than the stock setup. Not sure yet because I kinda like how quiet the stock exhaust is on my Buddy, although a loud exhaust will make your bike known to drivers around you.

Edit: someone asked me to include the eBay links for these systems, so here they are:

SST: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCOOTER-150CC-G ... 2465316734

Carbon Fiber: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCOOTER-150CC-G ... 2112131289

cummingsjc · Post by **cummingsjc** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:57 pm

babblefish wrote:As nice as the Prima pipe looks, I was thinking about getting this one because it's well made of SST - also available in a Carbon Fiber look. Cheaper than the Prima, too ($160-$170). I don't really care if it doesn't add any power, I like the looks and the fact that it's SST so will hold-up to the weather better than the stock setup. Not sure yet because I kinda like how quiet the stock exhaust is on my Buddy, although a loud exhaust will make your bike known to drivers around you.

What brand is this exhaust and what versions of the Buddy or other Genuine Scooters will it fit?

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:18 am

cummingsjc wrote:
babblefish wrote:As nice as the Prima pipe looks, I was thinking about getting this one because it's well made of SST - also available in a Carbon Fiber look. Cheaper than the Prima, too ($160-$170). I don't really care if it doesn't add any power, I like the looks and the fact that it's SST so will hold-up to the weather better than the stock setup. Not sure yet because I kinda like how quiet the stock exhaust is on my Buddy, although a loud exhaust will make your bike known to drivers around you.
What brand is this exhaust and what versions of the Buddy or other Genuine Scooters will it fit?

Not 100% sure where they're made or what brand, but from their looks I'm guessing Taiwan. I sent that question to the seller on eBay and am waiting for an answer. I'm not sure if they will directly fit a Buddy or Hooligan, but comparing the bends to a exhaust I bought for my Blur (which fits the Buddy just about perfect), they look identical. I'm willing to take the chance even if slight mods are necessary to make it fit. The only thing I forsee having to do is a custom bracket to mount the muffler to the scooter. Easy stuff.

EDIT: just got an answer from the vendor as to where this exhaust system is made: China. Even so, it looks pretty well made. I'll probably be ordering one soon. I'll post my findings after I try it out.

joebug · Post by **joebug** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:40 pm

That's a nice looking pipe...
Check out my latest addition

https://youtu.be/uhdLXC58_BE

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:37 am

joebug wrote:That's a nice looking pipe...
Check out my latest addition

https://youtu.be/uhdLXC58_BE

Very nice looking scoot and it sounds great. I think that black carbon fiber look pipe would be perfect on your scoot.

We've been lucky here as far as the weather is concerned. The rains have stopped for the time being. I'm sure the people who have been flooded out recently are happy about that. Been pushing upper 60s' to lower 70s' lately, but, more rain is due in a couple of days.
Stay warm.

joebug · Post by **joebug** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:28 pm

Hey babblefish....thanks

I've been checking out John Clarke on the street. He plays a live stream off pier 39 in San Francisco.. I believe you posted his link and I've been a fan ever since, even bought one of his albums... if you run into him tell him joebug said hello. the weather looks beautiful out there compared to the 25 inches of snow we just received... the view of Alcatraz etc is pretty cool too.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:15 am

joebug wrote:Hey babblefish....thanks

I've been checking out John Clarke on the street. He plays a live stream off pier 39 in San Francisco.. I believe you posted his link and I've been a fan ever since, even bought one of his albums... if you run into him tell him joebug said hello. the weather looks beautiful out there compared to the 25 inches of snow we just received... the view of Alcatraz etc is pretty cool too.

Glad you liked John Clarke. He has videos all over YouTube going back almost ten years. Amazing guitar player.

keltick · Post by **keltick** » Wed May 24, 2017 4:39 am

Any update on the Ebay pipe?

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Wed May 24, 2017 6:31 am

keltick wrote:Any update on the Ebay pipe?

I haven't ordered one yet because of other priorities. I'm kinda liking how quiet the stock exhaust is on my Buddy, so we shall see. I really do like the looks of those exhaust systems though.

GoSlash27 · Post by **GoSlash27** » Thu May 25, 2017 2:32 am

jd wrote:Anyone who tells you his or her Buddy 125 goes over 60 MPH is using the speedometer rather than a GPS to measure it. 58 MPH as measured with GPS shows as 65+ MPH on the Buddy's speedo.

jd,
Not true. My GF's '08 Buddy 125 goes over 60, at least when she's riding it.
We did a cruise from Cedar Rapids to Manchester, IA and back a couple weeks ago; about 100 mi. round trip. 60-65 each way. She had no trouble keeping up and didn't need to pin the throttle. No mods other than variator weights and a tiny rider.

Best,
-Slashy

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Thu May 25, 2017 6:44 am

GoSlash27 wrote:
jd wrote:Anyone who tells you his or her Buddy 125 goes over 60 MPH is using the speedometer rather than a GPS to measure it. 58 MPH as measured with GPS shows as 65+ MPH on the Buddy's speedo.
jd,
Not true. My GF's '08 Buddy 125 goes over 60, at least when she's riding it.
We did a cruise from Cedar Rapids to Manchester, IA and back a couple weeks ago; about 100 mi. round trip. 60-65 each way. She had no trouble keeping up and didn't need to pin the throttle. No mods other than variator weights and a tiny rider.

Best,
-Slashy

Are you quoting the Buddy's speedometer reading or GPS?

GoSlash27 · Post by **GoSlash27** » Thu May 25, 2017 2:20 pm

babblefish wrote:
Are you quoting the Buddy's speedometer reading or GPS?

babblefish,
GPS, but it was mounted on my bike. She said her speedo read 65-70.

Best,
-Slashy

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Thu May 25, 2017 5:17 pm

GoSlash27 wrote:
jd wrote:Anyone who tells you his or her Buddy 125 goes over 60 MPH is using the speedometer rather than a GPS to measure it. 58 MPH as measured with GPS shows as 65+ MPH on the Buddy's speedo.
jd,
Not true. My GF's '08 Buddy 125 goes over 60, at least when she's riding it.
We did a cruise from Cedar Rapids to Manchester, IA and back a couple weeks ago; about 100 mi. round trip. 60-65 each way. She had no trouble keeping up and didn't need to pin the throttle. No mods other than variator weights and a tiny rider.

Best,
-Slashy

Wow, you either lucked out with a super fast Buddy, or your girlfriend has to be super tiny. Sustained 60 mph GPS isn't normal. Consider yourself very lucky.

GoSlash27 · Post by **GoSlash27** » Fri May 26, 2017 3:39 am

k1dude,
I'm sure it's more the latter than the former. We got the Buddy specifically because she's too small to ride anything bigger.
A Buddy 125 can't do this with a normal sized rider, but it can with a small one. Although as I said it *does* have an adjustment to the variator weights. I don't know if it would still do it stock.
Best,
-Slashy

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Fri May 26, 2017 6:28 am

I had a small girlfriend once. In her early 20's, she weighed all of 95lb, lol. A Buddy 125 with her on it could probably do GPS 80 MPH, ha!

GregsBuddy · Post by **GregsBuddy** » Fri May 26, 2017 4:01 pm

I've spent a few hours preparing my daughter's new to her Buddy 125.
After riding it around a bit I don't think it will reach anything like 60 MPH, at least with a person ~5.5 feet tall. It is WAY less powerful than a 170i and it goes about GPS 63 MPH in the flat with no wind and with an over-sized OD rear tire to gain higher speed. Without the over-sized tire, the top speed was ~61 MPH. The 170i has the optional windshield that deflects wind up to about should height for the above sized person.
Something is amiss here...