First time to lay it down...

SScooterG · Post by **SScooterG** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:02 am

So, my boyfriend and I finally bought our scooters, and on our first time to take them out, he accelerated on a right turn too quickly and laid her down. He cracked the headset and the bezel, broke off a mount on the headlight, bent the wheel, and scraped her up really bad. I, trying to avoid him, scraped mine up (just a bit!) on the road as well. My question is, I know I can get the bezel, headlight set, and wheel from scootrichmond.com, but does any one know where I can get the headset or is it just straight from Genuine? (or through the dealer through Genuine, rather). Second, is there a website OTHER than scootrichmond.com that may have the bezel, headlight, wheel, etc? Your help would be much appreciated.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:15 am

I would just order the needed parts from Genuine through your local dealer. Their prices are reasonable. The bigger problem is that most parts commonly damaged in smackdowns are on backorder and take a while to get. Occasionally you can get used parts from a local dealer or private party taken from a parts bike damaged in a collision. Usually a good deal if you can find them.

I might as well also give you and your boyfriend the advice I give all new scooter riders. If you haven't already, make an appointment to take an MSF course as soon as you can. Have fun, ride safe.

SScooterG · Post by **SScooterG** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:20 am

Thank you, thank you. Yes, I sent my dealer a frantic email, so hopefully there will be a response tomorrow sometime.

And we are most definitely taking a MSF course...but the bikes were kind of taunting us. Who wants to wait to take the course when they're right there for you to enjoy? ... or crash.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:00 am

Before riding in public, I'd try to take the MSF course if you guys havent, it will teach you everything, not just saftey, but after taking this class, you instantly become a scooter riding pro, I'm serious.

weaseltamer · Post by **weaseltamer** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:45 am

jfrost2 speaks the truth

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:25 am

Glad your boyfriend's okay. Turning takes a while to learn, especially if trying to learn on your own.

There are some good riding tips in this MSF booklet:
http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/Scoote ... screen.pdf

For the parts, it's definitely best to go through your dealer first. They may not have the parts you need listed online, but they can order from Genuine, which is all anyone else would do.

Otherwise, you can get anything for a Buddy at Scooterworks, which is essentially Genuine's retail site.

anderson · Post by **anderson** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:26 pm

jfrost2 wrote:...after taking this class, you instantly become a scooter riding pro, I'm serious.

I hope this is a joke.

When I completed the MSF BRC course a couple years ago, one of the most important things the instructors told us (at the conclusion of the class) was that we were still inexperienced riders with only the most bare, basic skills that we need to operate a two-wheeled vehicle, that we should continue to practice, and that they recommended we not take on passengers for six months to a year.

What you WILL learn in the MSF BRC, among other things, is hopefully how to avoid the kind of accident that your boyfriend just had. I'm glad you all came out of it in one piece -- because scooters can always be repaired.

Take care.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:23 pm

I am joking, but there is some truth to it. You learn the complexity of riding a manual bike and all it's bells and whistles, when you go home and ride a automatic bike which is just twist and go, you dont need to worry about what gear you are in or the start up process, just turn her on, warm her up, and go!

Now even after the MSF I suggest still riding in the neighborhood at 25-30mph. You need to learn to corner and stop. Stop at all stop signs, slow down to a slower speed before cornering and keep constant throttle when in the corner so you dont just suddenly stop.

anderson · Post by **anderson** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:16 pm

jfrost2 wrote:Now even after the MSF I suggest still riding in the neighborhood at 25-30mph. You need to learn to corner and stop. Stop at all stop signs, slow down to a slower speed before cornering and keep constant throttle when in the corner so you dont just suddenly stop.

Okay...that's a bit better!

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:57 pm

Dont forget to roll the throttle back when stopping, you dont want to accelerate while trying to brake, something bad could happen there.....

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:16 pm

First, I hope neither of you got hurt and I'm really sorry your Buddys got dinged. I hope you get them fixed and on the road again, soon.

Second, I love the idea of riding as a couple. I'm sooo... jealous. On the other hand, I have a little piece of advice that may surprise you. It is a well-known fact that riding in a group is a skill all unto itself. In fact, it can be a little tricky. For this reason, big scooter rallies sometimes will have a slower, less-demanding group-ride for less experienced riders and folks with slower scooters. So, what I'm trying to gently suggest here is that it might be best if you each develop a little more skill before you try to ride close together (essentially a two-scooter group ride). An MSF course, as suggested above would be a great start. Then you can learn how to properly ride in staggered formation (behind and to the side of your riding partner) in a group.

And, not to get long-winded, but there's a reason why riding behind somebody is more difficult. I'm not an MSF instructor, but, here's the thing. It's all about the eyes. A scooter goes where you look. For example, if you look where you want to go in a turn, the scooter will go there. If you look at an obstacle you are afraid of hitting, the scooter will go there, too. In a weird way, you have to learn to ride with your eyes. I know this sounds like zen, but there it is.

Further, just looking where you want to go is not enough. Something they will train you NOT to do is stare at something you want to avoid. They call that "target fixating." If you target fixate on something while riding a scooter, you will ride straight towards it. In this case, I bet you were watching your BF fall and just rode right into him. The MSF folks will train you not to do that. (It's a skill you have to practice, there's no magic technique)

For example, here is a YouTube video that is a classic demonstration of motorcycle rider target fixation. There are two examples of target fixation here. The first rider target fixates on the edge of the ravine (where he doesn't want to go) and rides right off the road. Then the second rider target fixates on the first rider and only narrowly avoids riding off the road right behind him. Here's the clue you should be looking for. Run the little piece of the video when the wreck happens and watch the rider's helmets. The lead rider is obviously looking down the side of that ravine. Even more tellingly, you can actually see the second rider's helmet turn as he tracks the first rider going off the side of the road. He's looking right at him and his bike follows his gaze almost right off the side of the ravine. See what I mean? That's what you don't want to do. What both riders should have been doing is looking down the road through the turn where they wanted to go. I think they both could have made it if they had.

So, the take-home message is to start practicing looking where you want the scooter to go, particularly in turns. Also practice keeping your eyes moving, scanning for hazzards and not target fixating on the scooter in front of you. If you look past him, down the road where you want to go, you will still be able to see him so you can see his brake lights, turn signals, etc. Again, it's something that will come with practice.

I hope you all are back on the road soon.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:07 pm

Yea, what jrsjr says it true, you gotta ride with your eyes to avoid hazards and make turns perfect.

They teach this in the MSF too. WHen turning, just turn your head in the direction, look to the exact spot you wanna go, and lean.

If I remember it was "Slow, look, press, and roll"

Slow down to make the turn, look where you want to go, press the bike to make her lean, and roll a tiny tiny bit on the throttle to keep you moving.

SScooterG · Post by **SScooterG** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:18 pm

Thank y'all so much, that is really interesting about looking where you want the scooter to go. I read the TXDOT motorcycle pamphlet and for turns it did say "Stop, Look, Lean, Roll." I was like "Look? WTF?" ... Now I know why.

I think he took the scooter into our dealer, because it's not here at the house. It's rainy here anyway, so not too much of a bummer.

We were just riding around the neighborhood...practicing our turns and stops, etc, when it happened. So we meet all crashing qualifications - we haven't taken the MSF, we were within 5 miles of our house, and it was under 30 mph. I guess that's some condolence, and he's not the first to do what he did. I'm just glad there weren't cars behind us...

His wrist is swollen and he has some road rash and he messed up a good pair of work shoes (when I asked why he didn't change into tennis shoes or hiking boots, he told me he didn't dress to crash, and that if he wanted to go crashing, he'd dress for it. I wanted to respond you should always dress for crashing, but I figured he was super upset and didn't want to push him). The BIGGEST bummer is he just got his truck illegally towed a few days ago which put him out $200, and he was still really upset about that. This week has really not been his week.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:31 pm

And dont be looking at your front tire and where it is all the time, you search with your eyes up ahead, and press left/right on the handle bars, you will go left/right, the key is to keep searching ahead, not just at the road, but other cars too.

Dont ride next to cars either unless you cant help it, they may not see you because cars have large blind spots, you may be pushed right off the road and crash. Ride behind or infront of a car, if riding next to one, try to speed up so they know you are there. Dont be afraid to honk your horn either or give a wave, anything that shows you're there will help you stay safe.

Make sure when you corner and turn, you stop to a slower speed. DOnt just keep it at 30mph and lean like you're a sports bike pro, slow down, lean, and roll the throttle a tiny winy bit to keep you moving. once you straighten up, accelerate and remember to search ahead.

If you watch your tire all the time, you cant maneuver as much as you could with turning your head and looking with your eyes. In the MSF they made us do a figure 8 in a tiny box, the secret was to turn your head as far as possible in the direction you were moving. Whenever we tried to keep our eyes on the front tire, we always went out of the box, which was bad!

Another thing, this is probably the most important, were your helmets hit or scratched during the accident? If so, buy new ones, the littlest hit on a helmet can already ruin it, the foam inside compacts to keep you safe, and if you ever got hit in the same spot again, there wont be the foam to protect you. If you guys fell on your bodies and the helmet was untouched, you'll be ok. But the smallest hit and drop will kill the your helmet. It's a one time use helmet. No helmet will ever last years of being dropped.

EP_scoot · Post by **EP_scoot** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:59 pm

SScooterG,
You guys should not feel bad about this. Just take it as lessons learned and move on. Dressing for the crash, that is what we all do, but we sure hope not to ever need the gear. It is like insurance, you get it in hopes of never needing it.

MSF, as everyone else said, will teach you a bunch, but you will still be a newbie rider after it. Practice is what will make you better. No, you do not need to go all over town for practicing, a wide open, clean (no sand/gravel) parking lot would work just fine. Practice at 20-30 mph and you will get the skills down. They will apply the same at 50mph. Practice as much as you can, 10 minutes here, 20 minutes there . . .

If the MSF is financially unattainable at this moment, pick up the book Proficient Motorcycling from your library and go through the MSF website. This link is to their library ( www.msf-usa.org/index_new.cfm?spl=2&act ... me=Library ), but go all over their site. You will get a lot of theoretical knowledge for free, then head to the parking lot and practice what you read.

If you ride with other people, always ride at your own pace. If they are nice, they will wait for you every few miles. If they don't, you need to find other riding buddies. Never feel pressured to keep up. It is frustrating being the new/slowest person in a group, but we have all been there at the beginning. Stay within your limits, that is how you have fun, not going over them to keep up and saying "oh shit" every time you get into a turn.

And last, if you met up with other scooterists, don't be afraid of asking questions. To most of us, concepts like the "stop - look - lean - roll" are not innate, but learned. We all had to learned them and if you ask questions, most people are always very willing to tell/show you what they know or to clarify a concept you might be having difficulty with. Keep in mind these are the same complete extrangers that wave at you when you cross paths while riding.

Better to ask that to start creating bad habbits (like target fixation).

You will be having fun in no time. Keep us posted.

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:00 pm

SScooterG wrote:He cracked the headset and the bezel, broke off a mount on the headlight, bent the wheel, and scraped her up really bad.

I had an incident a little while back while attempting to avoid a cat that darted out in front of my wheel. Same prob with the cracked headset & bezel... Mine's not as bad as yours tho. I was lucky enough to be able to straighten the headset plastic so you can't really tell it's cracked, the scratches aren't too bad, but I'm STILL WAITING on that Bezel from scoot richmond.

They told me about a week ago that they would be getting it in about a week, so hopefully I'll be getting it real soon! Maybe if you call them, they might have ordered some extras and you could snag one before they sell it to someone else. Just a thought. The MSF course is something I'd really like to take, but ours is 200 BUCKS! By the time I have that much money, I'll already be a PRO!!!

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:09 pm

Dang! Here in ohio it's only 25 dollars! Free if your under 18 (me

)

SScooterG · Post by **SScooterG** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:25 pm

The dealer has a bezel for him already - 3 other people that just bought scooters did the same exact thing, so he has mostly everything. He has a chrome headset (I think my guy wants to keep the black, but whatever). The crack isn't huge, so maybe we can just line it back up and make it invis.

Our MSF is 200 dollars too!! They actually have a place that is targeted to scooters called Awesome Cycles - you can request to use one of theirs or bring your own (one of the reasons we waited...so we can learn on our bikes). I have my money stashed away for it, but he has to wait because that stupid tow took up his money (you have to pay in cash) - that link to the MSF library is great. I've read a bunch on this stuff (in fact I read a motorcycle book before purchasing the scooter), but it's different when you apply it. It'd be nice to have a safe environment in which to practice.

EP_scoot · Post by **EP_scoot** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:36 pm

The crack isn't huge, so maybe we can just line it back up and make it invis.

Pro-Weld bonds/glues plastic very well. If you can't find that, go to a hobby shop and they probably have it or something similar.

In MN MSF will set you back $160.00m but they have financial aid if needed. Maybe they have the same in your state?

MonsterGirl · Post by **MonsterGirl** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:33 pm

I hope everyone gets healed up soon!

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:23 pm

The cost of MSF courses varies by state and the company contracted to administer the course. In CA it's as much as $250 for 21+, $150 for younger. This is a huge barrier to people taking a course which does a lot to improve public safety. I don't want to get too political about it, but I think all of us in CA would be better off and safer if the course was much less expensive.

Pita1963 · Post by **Pita1963** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:57 pm

ericalm wrote:The cost of MSF courses varies by state and the company contracted to administer the course. In CA it's as much as $250 for 21+, $150 for younger. This is a huge barrier to people taking a course which does a lot to improve public safety. I don't want to get too political about it, but I think all of us in CA would be better off and safer if the course was much less expensive.

I take my MSF course this Mon-Wed. Here in CO it costs $225 for residents and my scooter dealer gives you a rebate for taking the class, not a lot - just $50, but it's cool that they do that.

Robb

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:37 pm

I think they should offer a $50 MSF where you provide your own bike & gear... I mean, most people trying to take it have their bike already or about to have one. It should be a sort of public service I think. The regular motorcycle endorsement test is REALLY easy and that's what makes it so dangerous (of course it's not so easy on a big bike, I'm sure)...

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:16 am

KRUSTYburger wrote: The MSF course is something I'd really like to take, but ours is 200 BUCKS! By the time I have that much money, I'll already be a PRO!!!

KRUSTYburger wrote: I think they should offer a $50 MSF where you provide your own bike & gear...

Well, you did come up with the $3k or so for the scoot. IMO whenever you decide to take the MSF, it will be money well spent. Most self taught scooter riders acquire at least as many bad habits as good ones. It IS too bad that there are not lower cost options for scooter riders where you bring your own scoot. I suppose the problem is that most MSF courses are oriented toward motorcycles and the classes standardize on 175-250 bikes so everybody is more or less riding the same thing. In the Team Oregon classes, you can use your own scoot with the permission of the instructor but that will not get you a discount on the cost. Maybe scooter riders need to get more organized and advocate some M(S)SF classes more geared to our needs.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:13 am

Actually if you write a letter to the person who runs the MSF in your state, you can ask if your bike model is approved. Here in ohio, they accept scooters ,especially the buddy, but taking the class on a real motorcycle is the best way to experience the MSF.

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:16 am

Dooglas wrote: Maybe scooter riders need to get more organized and advocate some M(S)SF classes more geared to our needs.

MSF actually does already have a scooter school but it's not widely offered, is only a half-day program, and does not waive any DMV testing. It is less expensive, however, and better than nothing.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:18 am

The main point of taking the MSF is to waive the BMV's test and such, and gain the skills, but since you dont get the test waived, this class isnt really worth it unless you go for just the skills education.

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:03 am

I already have my motorcycle license so that would not be the reason for my taking the course. I know I can get away with just that since I can handle myself pretty well on my scoot, I know the rules of the road and am a safe driver. I'm positive I would benefit from the course and I really want to learn to be a better scooterist, I guess it just seems a bit steep... For that price I could drive to another state to take it and save a few bucks! Alright! What city/state has the cheapest MSF? ROAD TRIP!

P.S. I am NOT under 18. Although I may be able to pass for it... Do they check your ID if you're just taking it for the heck of it?

SScooterG · Post by **SScooterG** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:21 am

My boyfriend and I just registered for the MSF course toward the end of the month. The company we are taking it through was recommended to us by our scooter dealer: they teach the scooter people with the motorcyclists and even have loaner scooters (you have to reserve them - fortunately we have our own). We're really looking forward to the course, despite the fact that it cost $400...it would be nice to offer a discount to those who bring their own bike or gear...

maribell · Post by **maribell** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:59 pm

I wish TX gov't would subsidize the cost like they do in Ohio

But I can't afford to take off work and spend $200 on top of that.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:12 pm

maribell wrote:
But I can't afford to take off work and spend $200 on top of that.

Avoid laying the scoot down one time and you come out ahead. I guess it depends on how lucky you feel.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:49 pm

KRUSTYburger wrote:I already have my motorcycle license so that would not be the reason for my taking the course. I know I can get away with just that since I can handle myself pretty well on my scoot, I know the rules of the road and am a safe driver. I'm positive I would benefit from the course and I really want to learn to be a better scooterist, I guess it just seems a bit steep... For that price I could drive to another state to take it and save a few bucks! Alright! What city/state has the cheapest MSF? ROAD TRIP!

P.S. I am NOT under 18. Although I may be able to pass for it... Do they check your ID if you're just taking it for the heck of it?

Sorry krusty, you gotta bring your temps/license and they make sure you are who you say you are and can ride a motorcycle. Plus, you register online, they make you pay online already.

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:07 pm

KRUSTYburger wrote:I already have my motorcycle license so that would not be the reason for my taking the course. I know I can get away with just that since I can handle myself pretty well on my scoot, I know the rules of the road and am a safe driver. I'm positive I would benefit from the course and I really want to learn to be a better scooterist, I guess it just seems a bit steep... For that price I could drive to another state to take it and save a few bucks! Alright! What city/state has the cheapest MSF? ROAD TRIP!

P.S. I am NOT under 18. Although I may be able to pass for it... Do they check your ID if you're just taking it for the heck of it?

I took the ABATE (our version of MSF) course here in Indiana last summer. They required at least a learners permit but didn't turn away those with M endorsements. A fair number of riders were seasoned and had trouble breaking old habits. The course is $50 and taught in Richmond so it may be worth a phone call to see if they'll take Buckeyes.

http://www.abateonline.org/ABATE.aspx?PID=265

Modern Buddy

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