Scooter snobs

Orange Guy · Post by **Orange Guy** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:23 am

No idea what to call them other than scooter snobs ... folks who own vintage scoots who look down the new "plastic" scooters.

This is hitting home right now. I found a local scooter club, but I'm not getting the warmest of welcomes because I don't own a '76 Vespa.

Frustrating because there just aren't that many scooterists in the area.

Anybody else had to deal with this?

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:25 am

Just offer to race them.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:29 am

Illinois thinks different.

He rides vintage bikes, but he has a blur too. Taiwanese engineering is top quality. It may not be a peugot from europe, but atleast our buddys/blurs last long.

DarbyWalters · Post by **DarbyWalters** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:34 am

It happens everywhere...just ignore the snobs and pick out the kewl ones. The rest will come around or not.

Ya'll are kinda of in the same boat as me. A "Genuine" Buddy will never be a 'real" scooter to some as a "Stella". My "Lambretta" Uno150 will never be a "real Lambretta" in much the same way. I could care less...I like the old and new scooters but I like "SCOOTING" above the scoots themselves.

bradgsanford · Post by **bradgsanford** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:47 am

You don't wanna be in the club with those people anyway. There's one here like that and they're just a bunch of douchebags - the ones I know at least. Even when I had my Stella I woulda rather hung out with others.

I drive a '71 VW Bus and get the same shit from split window drivers.

It's just a pissing contest with false beliefs in the superiority of one over another.

Orange Guy · Post by **Orange Guy** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:51 am

bradgsanford wrote:It's just a pissing contest with false beliefs in the superiority of one over another.

If I didn't know any better, I'd think you were a good friend of mine that I disc golf with. That sounds EXACTLY like something he would say.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:13 am

Here's the deal...

There ARE vintage scooter snobs, and if they're that closed-minded, then fine, whatever, that's their choice, who needs 'em.

But, on the other hand, think about it this way. Fifteen years ago, there was virtually no internet, and only a handful of shops nationwide, and finding a scooter took months of searching classified ads and then more months of tracking down other scooterists through word of mouth. A lot of us who have been doing this for a long time remember when there were a handful of scooterists in each city, and you could just assume that if another scooterist came to town, they were welcome to stay at your place, and vice versa. It was a much closer-knit scene, and a lot of us who have been around that long are VERY close, we've all been to each other's weddings, seen each others' kids grow up, done REALLY embarrassing and/or fun stuff together and built really solid relationships that will last a lifetime. So when I go to a rally, I always make an effort to make new friends, but there are A LOT of new people out there, and it's hard to build friendships with everyone you meet, let alone keep their names/internet names/etc straight, and you tend talking to your old friends at rallies, and everyone thinks you're an elitist snob.

Also, I've been in and out of a lot of clubs, and I just got in ANOTHER fight with people about this, but clubs are WAY overrated. Sure, there are good ones, and bad ones, but you're not missing much.

And last, if it is truly a vintage club or ride, that's sort of understandable. Vintage people usually put a lot of effort and time and money into their bikes, and it it's sort of a badge of honor. If you went to a car dealer and bought a 2008 Mustang and showed up at a vintage car show, it'd be the same thing, it's just sort of a different world, and it crosses over, and vintage people might be totally cool with modern scooters, and even own them, but there's a time and place when the vintage peeps like to focus on the vintage things, and that's fine.

Also, scootering's become a lot less homogenous, this list is a good example. Used to be, most scooterists had a lot in common outside of scootering, and you could just take it for granted that they'd sort of get along. Now that there's a wider variety of people scootering, you just can't assume any two scooterists are going to have much in common outside scootering.

All that said, so what? Start your own club and invite whoever you want to join. Ride what you like, and enjoy it and who cares what anyone else thinks? Be yourself and ride and organize events, and invite the snobs, and if they don't show up, it's their loss. Some will, I bet, and after hanging out with them a bit, they'll get to know you and figure out that you're alright after all, or you'll realize you're glad they didn't let you in their club in the first place.

You can't just buy a bike and expect to be accepted by every other person in the world with a similar bike (although people keep buying Harleys anyway). You can't just show up at events and expect to be entertained and welcomed if you don't give anything back. You'll make your own friends, and build your own relationships, and they'll overlap with the vintage guys to some degree (you know me, I don't hate you for owning a buddy, so that's at least one person on your side), and over time, you'll add your own stories and history to the mix, and you'll become part of the international community of scooterists in your own way by being yourself, and that's cool.

Bryan

voodoosix · Post by **voodoosix** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:17 am

lol. i got crucified on the scooterbbs when i sold my vintage to buy one of the 1st ET4s off the boat when Vespa came back to the states. alot has changed since then.....

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:19 am

that's a really great post, Bryan. I actually totally get that (vintage guitar/amp snob here), and someday I'm guessing I'll own an old scoot or two, but for now, I'm getting my feet wet with the Buddy. And loving every minute of it.

bradgsanford · Post by **bradgsanford** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:23 am

illnoise wrote:Also, I've been in and out of a lot of clubs, and I just got in ANOTHER fight with people about this, but clubs are WAY overrated. Sure, there are good ones, and bad ones, but you're not missing much.

....

You can't just buy a bike and expect to be accepted by every other person in the world with a similar bike (although people keep buying Harleys anyway).

What he said.

I fully agree that clubs are way overrated. WAY. What you feel may be a fun way to go on a group ride every now and then inevitably turns into a bunch of petty bickering and gossip.

No matter how nice everyone seems on the internet or at first visit, there are bound to be some assholes in the mix and these assholes will make you dread meeting up with everyone.

You'll find quickly that just because you all scoot, this isn't grounds enough on which to build a friendship and you'll soon find yourself wondering just what in the hell you're doing hanging around all these people you don't like when all you wanted to do was scoot.

Now this would all be different if you bought a Harley. Harley drivers are all bad asses and you will be too if you buy one*

*sarcasm

Orange Guy · Post by **Orange Guy** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:24 am

Thanks, Bryan, for shedding some light on the topic. The part that really made a point was the time and effort that goes into owning one of the vintage scoots. That makes a ton of sense.

I suppose I was comparing it to the local disc golf scene, in which we have a ton of different backgrounds and skill levels, but our club is very receptive to new members.

This just kind of caught me off guard.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:35 am

Also, just noticed you're in the quad cities...

If you're talking about who I think you're talking about, most of them are REALLY nice people and there are plenty of new scooterists involved in that club. It's possible (and funny, to me) that the 'snobby' people you met haven't been riding vintage scooters for more than a year or two, But still, they've been around a few years and the main 'players' are tight friends and you can't just stroll up and expect to be welcomed by everyone you meet.

Chances are, if you just be yourself and find the right people to talk to, and offer to help with the rally, they'll welcome the help. Don't try to show off and impress everyone, but do what you're asked to do, and do it well and modestly, and be polite, and you'll make friends. I like those guys a lot (they gave me "Best Vespa" at their rally last year, which is the only award I've ever won at a rally. I was really hoping to go to their rally again this year, but my dumb cousin is getting married that weekend.

I'm trying to think of reasons people were sorta ostracized in Chicago. One guy was sort of a weirdo hillbilly and smelled really bad, but over time he kinda grew on us. Some were just really unpleasant people, or people we just had nothing in common with at all. Some rode so poorly that we feared for our lives when we rode with them. Some just didn't share our sense of humor and got offended by anything anyone said. The worst were the overenthusastic braggy showoffs who came out of nowhere and started telling us how cool they were. Nobody likes that. That's why I have so few friends. : )

Bryan

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:40 am

One more thing, then i'll shut up:

I don't think I've ever turned down a beer. That's a cheap and easy way to make friends fast. Unless you're all showing off about it, or expecting something in return. But genuine acts of altruistic kindness are usually rewarded, sooner or later.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:20 pm

Another thing I thought of last night...

Think of how we talk about/think about cheapo mainland chinese scooters. I'm certainly guilty of that too. We insist our bikes are better than theirs and want nothing to do with them, is that any different than vintage snobs snubbing twist and gos?

We're right, of course, Genuines ARE better than Sun-Ls and Barons and no-name gas station scooters. But I'd also argue it's true that a 30-year-old Vespa is superior in a lot of ways to a modern scooter. Not in performance, maybe, but certainly in quality, style, and simplicity. So we just gotta remember, (stand back, I'm quoting Quadrophenia!) it's not the bikes, it's the people.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:22 pm

voodoosix wrote:lol. i got crucified on the scooterbbs when i sold my vintage to buy one of the 1st ET4s off the boat when Vespa came back to the states. alot has changed since then.....

Hey Voovoosix, did you buy that through Darren Lopez at On the Road Scooters in Richmond? I remember going to his new shop when he moved out of Shockoe Bottom to that little shop over near The Diamond. He had a couple of the first USA ETs there. I asked him about buying and he told me you had to go through the Piaggio folks in North Carolina. I can't believe how long ago that was. You didn't happen to buy one of those bikes, did you?

-John

voodoosix · Post by **voodoosix** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:09 pm

no, i lived in Illinois at the time. got it in Chicago.

Lagerhead · Post by **Lagerhead** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:12 am

illnoise wrote:Another thing I thought of last night...

Think of how we talk about/think about cheapo mainland chinese scooters. I'm certainly guilty of that too. We insist our bikes are better than theirs and want nothing to do with them, is that any different than vintage snobs snubbing twist and gos?

Can someone really snub a scooter?

I'm of the opinion that cheapo mainland Chinese scooters are crap, but I won't snub anyone riding/owning one until I've met and gotten to know them a at least little bit. Then it's not snubbing, it's ditching.

lou76 · Post by **lou76** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:22 am

to counter the "scooter clubs are overrated" viewpoint, i am really lucky to have met, ridden with, and been asked to join the scarabs... i have taken (and continue to take) a fair portion of crap for riding a buddy, but have gained a handful of friends that have supported me, taught me, helped me out at all hours of the night, given me things, and fondled me eagerly at mummy mayhem...
in terms of your personal experience with getting a "cool" welcome, consider that a lot of people buy a relatively cheap, easy to ride scooter (buddy), get really excited about it, want to join a club, and then lose interest/flake/buy a "real" bike/sell their scooter/get drunk and piss everybody off/ride like an idiot/get really annoying/etc,etc,etc... if you really dig scooters, and want to ride them and learn more about them, and you stick around for a while, you might find that cool welcome warming up a bit...
or start your own club, and gain an appreciation for why people in scooter clubs sometimes give "cool" welcomes...

Ms. Milan · Post by **Ms. Milan** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:53 pm

[quote=Ya'll are kinda of in the same boat as me. A "Genuine" Buddy will never be a 'real" scooter to some as a "Stella". My "Lambretta" Uno150 will never be a "real Lambretta" in much the same way. I could care less...I like the old and new scooters but I like "SCOOTING" above the scoots themselves.[/quote]

You encounter that type of thinking in a Vespa forum I used to post on when I had my PX. I posted alot at the beginning and got tired of the "old schoolers" putting down the newer scoots. I for one agree.....I own a scooter because I love the ride. Vintage, modern, plastic, metal......they are all scooters...I love 'em all. Even that SYM WoWow. I am saving my pennies for that one. As for your Lambretta Uno.....great scoot.

BTW....I ride with a great group of people in Ann Arbor. Any scoot is welcomed. I could not have met a better group of people.

Drumwoulf · Post by **Drumwoulf** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:03 pm

Ms. Milan wrote:[quote=Ya'll are kinda of in the same boat as me. A "Genuine" Buddy will never be a 'real" scooter to some as a "Stella". My "Lambretta" Uno150 will never be a "real Lambretta" in much the same way. I could care less...I like the old and new scooters but I like "SCOOTING" above the scoots themselves.

You encounter that type of thinking in a Vespa forum I used to post on when I had my PX. I posted alot at the beginning and got tired of the "old schoolers" putting down the newer scoots. I for one agree.....I own a scooter because I love the ride. Vintage, modern, plastic, metal......they are all scooters...I love 'em all. Even that SYM WoWow. I am saving my pennies for that one. As for your Lambretta Uno.....great scoot.

BTW....I ride with a great group of people in Ann Arbor. Any scoot is welcomed. I could not have met a better group of people.

'Cause I own both a Buddy and a Vespa GT200, I'm often on the MV forum. And I've almost ALWAYS found the Buddy 125 to be respected there, and even at times recommended to newbies who want a new small frame scooter....

Scooterpup · Post by **Scooterpup** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:43 pm

For what it's worth - my opinion:

I've seen some of the snobbery on occasion, even from some dealers claiming that real scooters come from Italy. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot market-wise.

Still, the folks who are hung up about vintage scoots being the only real scooters are being silly. A scoot is a scoot is a scoot. And most of us ride for sheer thrill of riding a scooter, regardless of it being a "shifter" or twist-n-go.

Plus, when those scoots were made, they were the new, modern thing, much like the Buddy is now. So I guess that makes us Buddy riders the new mods? hee hee (watch the sparks fly now!)

sargelee71 · Post by **sargelee71** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:21 am

illnoise wrote:Here's the deal...

There ARE vintage scooter snobs, and if they're that closed-minded, then fine, whatever, that's their choice, who needs 'em.

But, on the other hand, think about it this way. Fifteen years ago, there was virtually no internet, and only a handful of shops nationwide, and finding a scooter took months of searching classified ads and then more months of tracking down other scooterists through word of mouth. A lot of us who have been doing this for a long time remember when there were a handful of scooterists in each city, and you could just assume that if another scooterist came to town, they were welcome to stay at your place, and vice versa. It was a much closer-knit scene, and a lot of us who have been around that long are VERY close, we've all been to each other's weddings, seen each others' kids grow up, done REALLY embarrassing and/or fun stuff together and built really solid relationships that will last a lifetime. So when I go to a rally, I always make an effort to make new friends, but there are A LOT of new people out there, and it's hard to build friendships with everyone you meet, let alone keep their names/internet names/etc straight, and you tend talking to your old friends at rallies, and everyone thinks you're an elitist snob.

Also, I've been in and out of a lot of clubs, and I just got in ANOTHER fight with people about this, but clubs are WAY overrated. Sure, there are good ones, and bad ones, but you're not missing much.

And last, if it is truly a vintage club or ride, that's sort of understandable. Vintage people usually put a lot of effort and time and money into their bikes, and it it's sort of a badge of honor. If you went to a car dealer and bought a 2008 Mustang and showed up at a vintage car show, it'd be the same thing, it's just sort of a different world, and it crosses over, and vintage people might be totally cool with modern scooters, and even own them, but there's a time and place when the vintage peeps like to focus on the vintage things, and that's fine.

Also, scootering's become a lot less homogenous, this list is a good example. Used to be, most scooterists had a lot in common outside of scootering, and you could just take it for granted that they'd sort of get along. Now that there's a wider variety of people scootering, you just can't assume any two scooterists are going to have much in common outside scootering.

All that said, so what? Start your own club and invite whoever you want to join. Ride what you like, and enjoy it and who cares what anyone else thinks? Be yourself and ride and organize events, and invite the snobs, and if they don't show up, it's their loss. Some will, I bet, and after hanging out with them a bit, they'll get to know you and figure out that you're alright after all, or you'll realize you're glad they didn't let you in their club in the first place.

You can't just buy a bike and expect to be accepted by every other person in the world with a similar bike (although people keep buying Harleys anyway). You can't just show up at events and expect to be entertained and welcomed if you don't give anything back. You'll make your own friends, and build your own relationships, and they'll overlap with the vintage guys to some degree (you know me, I don't hate you for owning a buddy, so that's at least one person on your side), and over time, you'll add your own stories and history to the mix, and you'll become part of the international community of scooterists in your own way by being yourself, and that's cool.

Bryan

Nicely said, Bryan. I'm a new scooter owner and am obviously excited about it AND want to feel a part of this community. But, I also understand that this community has been around for a while, and there are existing relationships--and it's up to me to join conversations and contribute what I can.

AND yet...there are some MAJOR scooter snobs out there, too. :)ojavascript:emoticon(':P')

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:59 am

sargelee71 wrote:[AND yet...there are some MAJOR scooter snobs out there, too. :)

Oh, for sure. They annoy the crap out of me, too, and I've been around longer than most of them.

Bb.

sargelee71 · Post by **sargelee71** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:17 am

illnoise wrote:
sargelee71 wrote:[AND yet...there are some MAJOR scooter snobs out there, too.
Oh, for sure. They annoy the crap out of me, too, and I've been around longer than most of them.

Bb.

Which is not to say that I don't love vintage Vespas. I came from Vietnam, where, as a little one (4,5,6 years old), I used to stand on the floor of my cousins' vespas as they went around town. There's such a warm place in my heart for them.

Not safe at all, I know. Good thing there was DCFS around.':D'

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:58 am

sargelee71 wrote:Not safe at all, I know. Good thing there was DCFS around.':D'

I've got a 4-year-old, and I often wish they made helmets that small.

Ms. Milan · Post by **Ms. Milan** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:19 pm

Drumwoulf wrote:
Ms. Milan wrote:[quote=Ya'll are kinda of in the same boat as me. A "Genuine" Buddy will never be a 'real" scooter to some as a "Stella". My "Lambretta" Uno150 will never be a "real Lambretta" in much the same way. I could care less...I like the old and new scooters but I like "SCOOTING" above the scoots themselves.

You encounter that type of thinking in a Vespa forum I used to post on when I had my PX. I posted alot at the beginning and got tired of the "old schoolers" putting down the newer scoots. I for one agree.....I own a scooter because I love the ride. Vintage, modern, plastic, metal......they are all scooters...I love 'em all. Even that SYM WoWow. I am saving my pennies for that one. As for your Lambretta Uno.....great scoot.

BTW....I ride with a great group of people in Ann Arbor. Any scoot is welcomed. I could not have met a better group of people.
'Cause I own both a Buddy and a Vespa GT200, I'm often on the MV forum. And I've almost ALWAYS found the Buddy 125 to be respected there, and even at times recommended to newbies who want a new small frame scooter....

That is true. I posted a link on a prior thread about MVers thoughts on Buddy. They speak very highly of it. However, there are those few. One even ridiculed the small amount of plastic my 05' PX had. Thats a snob. Now, to there defense, there are members, many of them vintage only scooter owners, that are a wealth of information. And every time I asked a "stupid newbie" question, they were more than happy to answer it. I no longer post there, but I do read the threads and love to look at the pictures of the scooters they post. I think they lust over the modern scoots in secret.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:14 pm

illnoise wrote:One more thing, then i'll shut up:

Yeah right!!

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:32 pm

OK here I go.

There are scooter snobs all over the web. People don't like my Buddy because its, plastic, auto, too fast,...whatever.

People dis my Burgman... yes even on MB ....because its not a "Real Scooter", its plastic, its too fast (well maybe it is!!)

I got slammed hard on THIS forum when I bought a rebuild 64 Vespa VBB. I was told it was a Vietbodge by the "experts". It finally came down to "the gas cap is wrong" I bought it as a rebuilt scoot, researched that specific scoot...but of course others can tell all from a photo!! Maybe they don't like it because its too fast (Yeah right!)

Now remember that that is people ON THE WEB!!!

I have been to rallies on each of those scoots. I have never had anything less than a warm welcome and a fun time at any of them! These arent people sitting and typing...they are people that love scoots! My Buddy may not be for the Vintage folks, but some are interested and a few have taken it for a ride. What did they say? "Its not for me but thats one slick little scooter!"

Last weekend my wife and I rode to ARS Powersports in Okeechobee two up on the Burgman. We went with a group from the SouthEast Florida Scooters Group. The bikes ranged from a PX150 to a Harley. Great people, perfect weather and a fun fun day!

RIDE WHAT YOU LIKE...LIKE WHAT YOU RIDE!!!!!!!!

To quote a wise old hippie..

"If I cared what anyone else thought I would ride a Harley"