top 2 or 3 brands

GaryEPSP · Post by **GaryEPSP** » Sat May 10, 2008 4:39 am

I know this is going to be skewed but I'm asking everyone. If you owned a scooter shop, what 2 or 3 brands would you carry?

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sat May 10, 2008 4:55 am

Gilera
Peugeot
Piaggio

and for the lower end market:

PGO or Sym

Post by **ericalm** » Sat May 10, 2008 6:26 am

babblefish wrote:Gilera
Peugeot
Piaggio

Fantasy lineup? I know Gilera isn't sold in the U.S. and I don't think the Peugots are either now, right?

Totally ignoring any issues with Piaggio USA dealer relations and parts supply, I would love to sell Aprilia, which has a solid lineup but not enough dealers carrying them IMHO. I'd also carry Vespa and, unsurprisingly, Genuine Scooters. Since this would be a really nice, diverse line as is, I'd probably not want to carry the Piaggio models, other than maybe the maxiscoots. Not that I dislike them; I just don't know if a Fly 150 would sell if it was next to a Buddy 125/150.

I don't think Piaggio USA would go for this.

If I could get sell them, then, yeah, the Gilera and Derbi scoots. Sporty!

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Sat May 10, 2008 2:53 pm

Genuine
Kymco
SYM

Maybe vespa, if they would stop over pricing.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sat May 10, 2008 3:07 pm

ericalm wrote:
babblefish wrote:Gilera
Peugeot
Piaggio
Fantasy lineup? I know Gilera isn't sold in the U.S. and I don't think the Peugots are either now, right?

Yeah, I figured the idea of owning a scooter shop in and of itself is already a fantasy, so I may as well have a fantasy lineup too. Those manufacturers sell some of the most awesome sports scooters I've seen, but unfortunately, in every other country on this planet except this one. That might be a slight exaggeration...

BGK · Post by **BGK** » Sat May 10, 2008 3:27 pm

If I were to sell 3 scooters only, given what is available in the US I'd sell:

1)kymco people 50
2)Genuine Buddy 125
3)TGB 101/key west

Runners up would include:

Kymco People 150 is a solid work horse but it's a bit big and the buddy beats it out for fun factor in the 'faster than a 50' range

Vespa LX150 and GT250 by far the best ergonomics balanced with performance, but they are so expensive.

Rough House is OK with a good price point and Rattlers have their niche, but the TGB beats the RH out for simplicity and the great kick start mechanism and the Rattler just because it's too tall and I think could be done much better.

If I were to sell 3 brands available in the US:

1) Yamaha
2) Honda
3) Genuine

-For the following 5 reasons: parts support, quality, parts support, quality and bredth of line.

If I could sell one 50cc bike it would be close between the Kymco People 50 and the 101/key west. The People is awesome but the Key West is a bit more of a bargain. Close call.

If I could sell one 125/150, the buddy and the Vespa S would be so very close. Again, price being blanced with design is a tough thing to value.

If I had to sell one brand it would be Kymco given the bredth of the line and the middle ground price points. But that would if I could ONLY SELL ONE BRAND. Overall, their old design Peoples are their best scooters, but everything else would get a B overall (I don't believe in grade inflation).

If I could sell one dream scooter (note sell not necessarily own) it would be a Honda Elite 150 with a redesign of plastics only (no additional underseat storage or change in seat or floorboard angles or heights) and adding disc brakes. At an out the door price of 3K it would sweet. That or a Vespa S shrunken by 15 percent in every direction of the chassis.

Smellybumlove · Post by **Smellybumlove** » Sat May 10, 2008 3:40 pm

BGK wrote: 3)TGB 101/key west

Rough House is OK with a good price point and Rattlers have their niche, but the TGB beats the RH out for simplicity and the great kick start mechanism and the Rattler just because it's too tall and I think could be done much better.

If I could sell one 50cc bike it would be close between the Kymco People 50 and the 101/key west. The People is awesome but the Key West is a bit more of a bargain. Close call.

hmm the tgb is a yamaha bws 50 without the twin lights, PGO build the bws here in taiwan and for export, its essentially a shorter stroke rattler with slightly lower suspension and crapper brakes and older parts...... i respect your opinion but i think you better check the rattler again as its a better bike in almost everyway!

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Sat May 10, 2008 3:41 pm

I'd probably sell Vespa, Genuine, and Yamaha. Of course, the Vespas probably wouldn't sell so good when you compare prices side by side.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat May 10, 2008 4:00 pm

Well, here is a real world example. Vespa of Portland sells -

Vespas

Buddys

Stellas

A pretty good breadth of choice. And no surprise to you Vespa owners, they sell quite a few Vespas - price or no. Now fill in a 200cc Buddy to compete with the Sym 200 and the People 250 plus a new 250 4-stroke all state Stella and you pretty much have it for my dream line up.

BGK · Post by **BGK** » Sat May 10, 2008 4:07 pm

Smellybumlove wrote: hmm the tgb is a yamaha bws 50 without the twin lights, PGO build the bws here in taiwan and for export, its essentially a shorter stroke rattler with slightly lower suspension and crapper brakes and older parts...... i respect your opinion but i think you better check the rattler again as its a better bike in almost everyway!

A TGB is not the BWS without the twin lights. There are many scooters in the range the look similar but they are very different. If they still sold the old style BWS (pre2001 in the US), that would be tops. The Rattler may be similar in some respects but it is not the same. The rattler is unique in it's displacement in the US, but I think it could be done so much better with slightly smaller wheels, lower set chassis and a greater seat to floorboard distance. Feeling tall may be good for the ego, but it's not good for handling. Rugged looks are just that, looks. Also, the brake parts are about the same in performance. I have no idea where you'd get the idea that they were inferior. I'm sure you like your rattler and all, but I think you may be a bit biased.

Christy · Post by **Christy** » Sat May 10, 2008 6:29 pm

hmmm...
Vespa
Genuine
Honda

i think....

voodoosix · Post by **voodoosix** » Sat May 10, 2008 8:10 pm

id go
SYM
Genuine
Adly/Lambretta

Post by **ericalm** » Sat May 10, 2008 9:43 pm

voodoosix wrote:Adly/Lambretta

Very bold of you!

voodoosix · Post by **voodoosix** » Sat May 10, 2008 10:11 pm

ericalm wrote:
voodoosix wrote:Adly/Lambretta
Very bold of you!

i know the classic Lammy folks are up in arms about it, but the Adly Noble is an excellent bike. the truth is that id go with the Lambretta Intl model vs the Adly model just due to looks alone (the Adly models the U.S. gets are god awful ugly).

another "sleeper" could be the Chinese made Benellis (Andretti as theyre called in the U.S.) but only time will tell.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Sun May 11, 2008 2:40 am

Piaggio/Vespa/Gilera/Aprilia have HORRIBLE margins, and unrealistic dealer requirements, but if you're running a scooter shop, people are gonna expect you to have 'em.

But I'd sell Genuine for sure.

Peugeot would be awesome, I wish someone'd import them.

Kymco seems to be slipping a little, maybe because they weren't ready to expand into the maxiscooters, and their marketing's not as good as Genuines, but they're still one of the best.

SYM and TGB are good, but I don't see any point in carrying them if you have Genuine and/or Kymco, they're similar quality, but not as interesting, and not really any cheaper. SYM might start to grow if the Mio sells well, and if their ET4-ish thing and their Cub clone come out and are good quality. TGB's relationship with Sachs is promising.

Andretti/Benelli/PSF is promising, I hope they work out.

Sadly, I have very low hopes for Italjet/Diamo/LS

Yamaha and Honda and Suzuki are all good, but that's getting into the MC market.

I think if the LML gets the stella back on track full-steam and releases that california-legal, 4-stroke automatic 250 whatever, and gets that Vespa ET clone out, and Genuine brings both in, and maybe they relaunch the Blur and make more of a splash with it somehow, they've got an amazing, diverse product line and no one will be able to compete with them.

It all comes back to the Blur, it's the scooter of the future.

Well, actually, it's a taiwanese Peugeot JetForce, but until we get Peugeot, it'll have to do.

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Sun May 11, 2008 2:50 am

Thinking of brands that wouldn't compete with each other much.

1) Suzuki - A 400 or 650 maxiscoot, do you need anything else?
2) Vespa - For the purists.
3) Genuine - No better selection for 150 and smaller. (just don't like the look of Kymco.

nissanman · Post by **nissanman** » Sun May 11, 2008 2:52 am

Hmmm, in a dreamworld it would be Genuine, Peugot and a Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki brand. The first because the brand resonates with the real scooter people out there, Peugot because they have some sick scooters and H/Y/S because they have huge dealer support (relatively) financing and advertising etc. I'd really like to have a shop that specializes in custom work though. From the mild bolt on stuff to complete frame bending customs. After all this is in dreamworld.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun May 11, 2008 3:00 am

nissanman wrote:Peugot because they have some sick scooters.

That would be slick?

voodoosix · Post by **voodoosix** » Sun May 11, 2008 3:25 am

if Peugeot was in the USA.........the Jetforce Compressor would be MINE!!!!!!!!!

Smellybumlove · Post by **Smellybumlove** » Sun May 11, 2008 3:39 am

BGK wrote:
Smellybumlove wrote: hmm the tgb is a yamaha bws 50 without the twin lights, PGO build the bws here in taiwan and for export, its essentially a shorter stroke rattler with slightly lower suspension and crapper brakes and older parts...... i respect your opinion but i think you better check the rattler again as its a better bike in almost everyway!
A TGB is not the BWS without the twin lights. There are many scooters in the range the look similar but they are very different. If they still sold the old style BWS (pre2001 in the US), that would be tops. The Rattler may be similar in some respects but it is not the same. The rattler is unique in it's displacement in the US, but I think it could be done so much better with slightly smaller wheels, lower set chassis and a greater seat to floorboard distance. Feeling tall may be good for the ego, but it's not good for handling. Rugged looks are just that, looks. Also, the brake parts are about the same in performance. I have no idea where you'd get the idea that they were inferior. I'm sure you like your rattler and all, but I think you may be a bit biased.

the wheel size is whats good about the rattler, i rode a 20+hp yamaha cuxi which weighs 90ish kgs and has 10 inch wheels, it was frightening as it went sideways everytime i wacked the throttle open, oh and it was on dunlop tires.

my rattler is supposed to have 20hp and weighs the same, it has 12 inch wheels and feels mega stable at low and high speed, no comparison.

10inch wheels imho are quite scary as they skip about and dont feel very planted in comparison to 12 inch wheels.

take another ride on a rattler, also consider that the US version is slightly taller because of the suspension.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Sun May 11, 2008 3:46 am

If you have Honda, the scoots you sell are the Metropolitan, Rukus (both cool but under powered), Elite 80 (why would anyone want it), Reflex (snowmobile with wheels) and Silverwing.

If American Honda got it's act together with scooters, Piaggio (Vespa), and all the Taiwanese scooter makers would be in trouble. Check out some of the offerings in the UK. I do believe the SH300I is the top seller.

http://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/Disp ... e=Scooters

Yamaha only has the same problem cool and underpowered Zuma, C3 (looks like an ice chest with wheels), a nicely styled but slow Vino, Morphous (snowmobile styling), and the Majesty.

The Burgman, is only scooter offering by Suzuki, is argubly the best scooter on the market.

The problem with the above 3, you have to sell motorcycles. Motorcycles is their primary business not scooters.

I would stick with the Taiwanese manufacturers Genuine/PGO, Kymco, and SYM. I would be leary of TGB and Adly because they lack dealers and products that stand above the rest. I would avoid any Chinese manufacturers at this point. None of them have stood out quality wise.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sun May 11, 2008 7:29 am

pcbikedude wrote: Yamaha only has the same problem cool and underpowered Zuma, C3 (looks like an ice chest with wheels), a nicely styled but slow Vino, Morphous (snowmobile styling), and the Majesty.

The problem is, Yamaha does have some really nice scooters - they just refuse to sell them here (in the U.S.). I've posted this before, but in case anyone missed it:

http://www.yamaha-motor-europe.com/products/scooters/

I've ridden a couple of their other scoots in Taiwan and was impressed.

Smellybumlove · Post by **Smellybumlove** » Sun May 11, 2008 7:49 am

very true, the cuxi is the best one of the lot even if it does handle badly!.

im seriously considering importing them

FA-Q · Post by **FA-Q** » Sun May 11, 2008 3:09 pm

We sell Kymco, PGO (Genuine), the CPI GTR 50, the Tomos Arrow R. We will have the full SYM line up including the new Vogue!. For all you Pug fans you will be happy (because it is one step closer to the US) to know that Canada will have 8 or 9 Peugeots in Canada for '09. The Speedfight included. We will carry them.
If I had my pick of scoots it would be, Sym Vogue 50 and 125, Sym Wowow 110, PGO Metro 50 and 125, Kymco People 50, 125 and 250, Kymco Super 9 liquid cooled, Kymco Vitality 2T 50, Kymco Exciting 500, Peugeot Blaster, Peugeot Speedfight, Peugeot Jetforce 125, Peugeot Satellis 125 and 250, CPI GTR 50 and the Stella if she were in Canada.
With Vespa in Canada parts are always a problem and they are way overpriced. Honda and Yamaha are always in big bike shops that carry the full line. Malagutti would be nice too.

FA-Q · Post by **FA-Q** » Sun May 11, 2008 3:21 pm

I forgot to add the MadAss 125!

brimstone · Post by **brimstone** » Sun May 11, 2008 3:33 pm

is that the mountain bike lookin' one....that one is weird.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun May 11, 2008 4:00 pm

pcbikedude wrote:If American Honda got it's act together with scooters, Piaggio (Vespa), and all the Taiwanese scooter makers would be in trouble. Check out some of the offerings in the UK. I do believe the SH300I is the top seller.

Maybe but the prices would have to be seriously adjusted. The PS125i (nice-looking scoot) would go for $3810 here. The SH300 would be $6937.

The Honda I want isn't available in the U.K. It's the Eterno:
http://www.honda2wheelersindia.com/prod ... o/home.asp

Check out how the rear lifts up and off for engine access. Brilliant!

Price converted from Indian Rupee: $954. If that were doubled for the U.S. market, it'd still be a great deal.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun May 11, 2008 4:08 pm

FA-Q wrote:We will have the full SYM line up including the new Vogue!

You think you'll sell any Kymco 125s/150s with the Buddy and the Vogue in your showroom?

FA-Q · Post by **FA-Q** » Sun May 11, 2008 4:25 pm

Yes! Anyone from a motorcycle background or is receiving advice from a motorcycle source will be drawn toward big wheels. They are a smooth ride, well built and have a great rep.

BuddyLicious · Post by **BuddyLicious** » Sun May 11, 2008 4:25 pm

babblefish wrote:
pcbikedude wrote: Yamaha only has the same problem cool and underpowered Zuma, C3 (looks like an ice chest with wheels), a nicely styled but slow Vino, Morphous (snowmobile styling), and the Majesty.

The problem is, Yamaha does have some really nice scooters - they just refuse to sell them here (in the U.S.). I've posted this before, but in case anyone missed it:

http://www.yamaha-motor-europe.com/products/scooters/

I've ridden a couple of their other scoots in Taiwan and was impressed.

I wonder (probably won't) if Yamaha will send their newly released Zuma 125 over here to the states? A nice scoot,it seems. Link below.

http://www.scootercommunity.com.au/forums/t/3988.aspx

Smellybumlove · Post by **Smellybumlove** » Sun May 11, 2008 4:34 pm

yeah its nice, we got them here.

fuel injection and a HID light BUT with a serious pricetag, here its around $2200+ new for taiwanese, thats alot considering most scooters are around 1400-1600!, heck i can get a pgo g-max 200 and put a big bore on it for the same price!

voodoosix · Post by **voodoosix** » Sun May 11, 2008 4:59 pm

hey Smellybum',

how are Adly and TGB scooters perceived over there?

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:39 pm

FA-Q wrote:Malagutti would be nice too.

Old Malagutis are pretty nice, but it looks like the newer ones are made by CFMoto. Lev from Baron posted a photo of himself with the Malaguti son at CFmoto headquarters on the BBS, implying that he will be importing them (that's how I took it anyway) but he pulled the photo down a couple hours later, so someone wasn't happy about his 'leak.'

Joel Martin (MRP) was the old importer, dunno if he's still involved.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon May 12, 2008 3:30 pm

I think some of the Vespa boutiques may start carrying some Aprilia models (if they aren't already). Saw a post somewhere that someone had seen the Aprilia Scarabeo 500ie (which is one tasty-lookin' scoot, for a maxi!) at my local dealer. I may need to investigate. And take a test ride.

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Mon May 12, 2008 3:37 pm

BuddyLicious wrote:I wonder (probably won't) if Yamaha will send their newly released Zuma 125 over here to the states?

Yeah the Zuma 125 is a pretty sweet scoot imo. Also, what about the Clixi 100?
http://www.yamaha-motor.com.tw/Image_Mo ... 71_big.jpg

Actually I've said it before and I'll say it again... WHERE'S THE C3 150?! I'd buy that in a heartbeat.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Wed May 14, 2008 12:58 pm

Interesting discussion. Hmm... I guess the OP is strategizing for a future dealership. I have a completely different angle on the question. I'm famous for being wildly wrong, so take this with a grain of salt, but...

This isn't the right forum for a discussion of commodities futures. Suffice to say that commodities futures traders are some of the spookiest people around because there is no transparency and sometimes no rational explanation for actions they take which then have immediate, huge impact on our lives. Of course, I'm thinking particularly about oil futures traders, who right now are driving the price of oil to new records every day. Among those traders, the whisper number for a barrel of light sweet crude by the end of the year is $200. The national avg for regular gas right now is around $3.72 (I know many of you live in parts of the country where it's much higher, but that's the latest reported figure). So the magic calculation isn't difficult to make. Right now an oil future contract is about $124/barrel. Just set up a simple equation:

$200 (whisper number) $X (future price of a gallon of gas)
--------------------------- = --------------------------------------------------
$124 (today's number) $3.72 (current avg price of a gallon of gas)

and solve for X. The answer is $6.00 exactly. (spooky coincidence, huh?)

So, the scooters I'd carry would be the ones made by the company that is capable of ramping up production/shipping/parts delivery in one $#!@ of a hurry.

Which company is that?

Post by **ericalm** » Wed May 14, 2008 2:45 pm

jrsjr wrote:So, the scooters I'd carry would be the ones made by the company that is capable of ramping up production/shipping/parts delivery in one $#!@ of a hurry.

Which company is that?

Honda?

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Wed May 14, 2008 4:04 pm

ericalm wrote:
jrsjr wrote:So, the scooters I'd carry would be the ones made by the company that is capable of ramping up production/shipping/parts delivery in one $#!@ of a hurry.

Which company is that?
Honda?

Honestly, I don't know. It might be one of the Taiwanese companies. But, can you imagine the flood of folks pouring into scooter dealerships if gas were to hit $6.00 a gallon? They wouldn't be enthusiasts looking for Vespas, that's for sure. Folks like you and illnoise and Brooke could end up being highly paid scooter industry consultants.

There is such a thing in life as being the right person in the right place at the right time.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Wed May 14, 2008 4:48 pm

jrsjr wrote: Folks like you and illnoise and Brooke could end up being highly paid scooter industry consultants.

They don't listen to my free advice, why would they pay me for it?

Genuine's doing things mostly right, and they're great to work with if you're a dealer, and that's mostly why they're doing so well. The Buddy isn't by a longshot the coolest/best scooter out there, but Genuine did a great job of marketing it and creating a sense of community for it that no one else can match, even Piaggio, who had a readymade market and community waiting for them here and did everything they could to destroy it.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Wed May 14, 2008 5:08 pm

illnoise wrote:
jrsjr wrote: Folks like you and illnoise and Brooke could end up being highly paid scooter industry consultants.
They don't listen to my free advice, why would they pay me for it?

Because they'd be paying you for it! Get it?

Post by **ericalm** » Thu May 15, 2008 1:35 am

jrsjr wrote:
illnoise wrote:
jrsjr wrote: Folks like you and illnoise and Brooke could end up being highly paid scooter industry consultants.
They don't listen to my free advice, why would they pay me for it?
Because they'd be paying you for it! Get it?

I'm going to hop on that gravy train ASAP.

charltons · Post by **charltons** » Sat May 17, 2008 1:34 am

Definitely the Kymco Agility 125. I would think that as gas goes up and people look for alt. transport, the price point will be a factor as everything else is getting expensive.

Solano cycle in St Augustine told me they bought the whole truck of Agilitys and sold them all quick.

That was one of the big draws for me, but then my wife sometimes calls me a cheap b#st#rd.

seth xyl · Post by **seth xyl** » Sun May 18, 2008 2:48 pm

BGK wrote:The rattler is unique in it's displacement in the US, but I think it could be done so much better with slightly smaller wheels, lower set chassis and a greater seat to floorboard distance. Feeling tall may be good for the ego, but it's not good for handling. Rugged looks are just that, looks.

Are you kidding? The wheels and tires give the Rattler 110 excellent obstacle clearance, not to mention keeps scooter parts off the road for more ground clearance in fast cornering. I'd rather drag my knee than the tranny (or centerstand, though sparks are fun) thank you. And in my opinion those rugged looks are in direct relation to it's performance qualities, pure and simple.

I can't wait until sales allow for more 'sport' scooters in America. How are they selling nationally? do you all see them? In Cincy it's a very large majority retro styled bikes, Stellas, tons of Buddys, Vespas.

brimstone · Post by **brimstone** » Sun May 18, 2008 2:52 pm

i love the looks of my rattler.

nissanman · Post by **nissanman** » Sun May 18, 2008 4:32 pm

+1 Brimstone

I call the Rattler a "motard" style scooter. Not retro (duh), not really "sport" either. In the same area as a Zuma, Typhoon. Curb jumping, wheelies and motocross handlebars all in one package!

brimstone · Post by **brimstone** » Sun May 18, 2008 9:24 pm

yeah, i like it because it looks different. i intially was looking the zuma or ruckus, because it wasn't a metro or vespa-ish looking. not that there's anything wrong with them. but they're just not for me. although my friend might be selling his ruckus for around $1000 at the end of tthe summer. i might pick it up for my wife or daughter. that'd be sweet.

Modern Buddy

top 2 or 3 brands

top 2 or 3 brands

My three