Dealer Costs (Shipping, Set-up)

mollybrown · Post by **mollybrown** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:57 am

Hello MB members,

My roommate, best friend recently purchased a Buddy in northern California. I own a Vespa but helped her buy a cream colored Buddy. She chose the 2007 model with DC adapter and blinking hazard lights. Love the turn signal ,white turn-off button! Price of her 2007 scooter was a closeout, end of the year special, $2200. However, the dealer costs (shipping and set-up) was close to $500 plus county tax & DMV fees made the total price $2950 out-the-door. Everyone says this is a great deal in California where our sales tax is over 8%, depending where you live.

Just wondering what other Genuine Scooter dealers are charging for set-up and shipping costs throughout the United States? Seems like a padded area where dealers can set their own prices and compensate for end of the season, blow-out deals on purchase price. Most dealerships do not/cannot legally charge shipping costs if the scooter is considered a "used", demo model. I find it outrageous that a $2200 scooter has $750 extra dollars tacked on the price for dealership and DMV fees.

It's ridiculous to pay retail price but the only way you'll get the two year GS warranty as the original owner. Believe me, you're paying for it through the various dealer fees. My roommate received a tank full of gas and correct air pressure in both tires before we loaded up the scooter to bring it home.

scullyfu · Post by **scullyfu** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:20 am

hey molly.

my 2007 SI, out the door with all the taxes, licensing, registration, fees, etc. was $3604, that was $950 over sticker price. crazy shit, that. but it is what it is. seattle's taxes are 8.9%. i got a full tank of gas & correct air pressure, too. big whoop, eh?

btw, dealers don't make that much on scooters, so the set-up fees may be a little on the high side to help pad the bottom line a bit. can't blame dealers for wanting to make a little more money.

truckasaurus · Post by **truckasaurus** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:20 am

Seems to me that any dealer charging for "dealer prep" or "setup" in this day and age is crooked. Maybe those charges are banned here (Texas), but i don't think i've seen or heard of such a thing in a long time. It's just gouging. There's no reason for the dealer to tack on additional profit when the price of the scooters are supposedly restricted to "list only." Yeah, your dealer pulled a fast one by knocking 5-600 bucks off the price, then tacking it right back on as "setup", but you still got a good deal.

Fortunately, my dealer only charged me for tax, registration, and the delivery fee.

louie · Post by **louie** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:37 pm

aren't the set up fees for each scooter getting set up and a good going over before it goes out the door?

my 2499 o6 came to 2950 after all the charges including a whopping 10% city tax and bogart sized set up etc fees.

captaintg · Post by **captaintg** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:16 pm

When I was discussing price with my dealer, he mentioned the set-up fee and how it covers things like filling the tank up with gas. I mentally rolled my eyes, not seeing the connection between $3 in gas and a few hundred dollars in fees. Anyway, when I picked up my buddy, the tank was 1/4 full. It wasn't worth it to me to mention it, but it didn't do much to build a relationship with me as a customer.

There is no competition in my area for dealers, so the choice was to pay the asking price, or not. I don't regret my decision to pay it, but it felt very shady at the time.

nonsense · Post by **nonsense** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:00 pm

truckasaurus wrote:Seems to me that any dealer charging for "dealer prep" or "setup" in this day and age is crooked.

Metro Scooter was incurring so much setup time with one brand (can't remember which, TGB maybe?) that they dropped the line. Buddy's may show up ready to go, but I don't know about the blanket statement that setup charges make a dealer crooked.

vitaminC · Post by **vitaminC** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:36 pm

Maybe you could just ask them to sell you one that is still in the crate, and you could then prep it yourself?

thepezident · Post by **thepezident** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:39 pm

I have the chance to get a Buddy Italia version for $2600 + tax tags, license.
Is this good? We "are" rapidly approaching November...

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:33 pm

There does seem to be a lot of variability in shipping and set-up costs. You can only conclude that some dealers are building in some extra profit here. In fairness to dealers though, shipping and reasonable labor for set-up are real costs. I don't imagine that Genuine will honor the warranty on a scooter that has not been set-up by a dealer. You also can't blame the dealer for local sales tax and state licensing fees. Those charges alone can be as high as $300-$400 in some areas. My dealer charged about $275 for shipping and set-up on my scoot earlier this year. Fees for state registration and licensing (3 yrs) came to about $100.

And, yes, I would say that $2600 plus taxes and tags out-the-door is a very good price for an SI.

vitaminC · Post by **vitaminC** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:34 pm

The thing to remember is that whether or not something is a good deal is entirely subjective. If you feel it's a good deal, then that's all that matters, as you're the one spending the money. We're just a bunch of mostly anonymous people on the web, so what does our opinion really matter??

If you want it, can afford it, and think the price is reasonable, then- as Nike says- just do it.

dannyW · Post by **dannyW** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:33 pm

i would never nickel and dime my dealer, because I want him to have a healthy business, and to REMAIN in business.

2007 buddys at retail are 2599.99

if they are half profit margin (sincerely doubt it), after tax on both ends that's maybe a grand.

Noho scooters is in Los Angeles, and although they are busy, how many scooters a DAY would they have to sell just to pay the employees, have stocked items, a quality mechanic, timely service, more scooters on the way power on, insurance, advertising, lease/rent, etc...

I'm not a person who feels entitled to some crazy "deal" .... I think the Buddy is an amazing value, at retail.

that's just me.

I would never do business with someone I didn't want to make money.

thepezident · Post by **thepezident** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:19 pm

I'm not saying I want to nickel and dime the dealer. I was just asking if it's like a car and it's understood that no one pays sticker price. The MSRP is just that...the suggested price.

So I was looking to know what is the acceptable bargaining range?

polianarchy · Post by **polianarchy** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:21 pm

dannyW wrote:I would never do business with someone I didn't want to make money.

That's beautiful! Those are some wise words to live by.

dannyW · Post by **dannyW** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:13 pm

thepezident wrote:I'm not saying I want to nickel and dime the dealer. I was just asking if it's like a car and it's understood that no one pays sticker price. The MSRP is just that...the suggested price.

So I was looking to know what is the acceptable bargaining range?

Bargaining?

Generally you can expect a free helmet.

These are 2500 dollar scooters, they aren't cars.

Its not flowers at the farmer's market.

If you hassle the dealer, how do you expect to be treated when you need a part? or a an ad on?

The scooter market is small, and dealers go out on a limb to import this product, they have to sell a certain number a year to retain the right to sell them and they have to budget expecting to make a certain amount.

I think its disrespectful to "bargain" with a small business person.

I paid sticker. I also got white walls, crash bars, a rear luggage rack, gloves, a jacket, a front luggage rack, and I didn't ask for or expect a break. I did research before hand and learned that my scooter shop charged the exact same price for accessories that the least expensive online retailer charged, so I was excited that I got a deal on the add ons, and they we're installed for free by the shop, put on correctly, and there was no shipping nightmare.

That's just me.

There was no closeout price on my creme buddy, and that's fine.

2950 out the door is an amazing price.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:20 pm

thepezident wrote:I'm not saying I want to nickel and dime the dealer. I was just asking if it's like a car and it's understood that no one pays sticker price. The MSRP is just that...the suggested price.

So I was looking to know what is the acceptable bargaining range?

It's not like a car at all, actually. Unlike cars, the markup on these scooters is pretty low. The MSRP is actually base price; additional set up, prep, registration and other fees vary by dealer and state. But what it comes down to is that set up fees are a standard practice and that a reputable dealer doesn't use this to pad the price and bump up their profits.

These fees should include shipping plus the time spent "prepping" the scoot: uncrating, assembling whatever needs to go on there out of the crate, inspecting, charging and installing battery, doing the pre-delivery inspection and so on. This is time consuming, especially since many dealers are small mom & pop operations where "time is money" so to speak.

So, yeah, it's a little unusual to try to bargain in the price of the scoot. However, if you're buying a scoot, helmet, accessories, etc., I don;t think it's unreasonable to ask if the dealer can offer you some kind of discount or bargain. The key, though, is to be polite and not go in with the expectation of saving hundreds of dollars or the attitude that you're entitled to a discount.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:47 am

funny this thread is alive today. I just got back from talking to my dealer about another scooter.

Scooters price is determined by cost & margin only. Fees are another way to increase dealer margin. Because all of scooter and motorcycle dealers charge "Destination" and "Dealer Prep" fees there is no incentive to stop. In the loan business they use to call those garbage fees.

Cost to dealers can depend on the incentives to the dealer to sell a certain amount of bikes.

I asked about what was involved with the setup of the Buddy. Someone told me, put on the tires (air too), put in a charged battery in, put the mirrors on and gas it and start. Then adjust.

Bargain the best you can and get the most you can. Its all part of the game.

louie · Post by **louie** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:12 pm

we all have options. buy, don't buy.
my earlier reference to bogart sized set up and tax is a reference to the name and location of the dealer and there other brands of vehicles; triumph, bmw, klm, and vespa.
i wish we payed a living wage for all the products we buy.

truckasaurus · Post by **truckasaurus** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:57 am

ericalm wrote: It's not like a car at all, actually. Unlike cars, the markup on these scooters is pretty low.

Actually, the markup on cars is very low... usually around 10%. Dealers generally don't make money on the sale of new cars, they make money on the financing and service. Because of the difference between retail and wholesale, they actually make more (per unit) on used cars than they do on new ones. Mainly because of internet sites, most consumers are pretty savvy, most getting the deal just a tad over invoice.

If you qualify for 8% financing, for example, and they can trick you into taking 9%, they'll make several thousand dollars in kickbacks from the bank. Wanna put the screws to a car dealer... tell them you have bad credit and need the car as cheap as possible (works best for used cars), then agree to the ridiculous interest financing and pay it off (or refinance elsewhere) when you get the first bill. Most banks hold back their kickbacks until the loan has been active for 3-6 months.

Eddy Merckx · Post by **Eddy Merckx** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:21 am

If your dealer does not make a healthy profit he / she can not stay in business very long, or for that matter ever give their employees a resonable raise, I work in a two wheel retail store and the NET PROFIT is far lower than the average individual has any idea of, I for one have no issue with my scooter dealer making a profit off me, its how capitalism works, its how we all get to go on vacation, its how we can afford to invite our friends over to grill up some good steaks and not charge them for it...................JMO of course, feel free to disagree at your liesure...

ps. sorry about the rant, no offence intended toward anyone.....again JMO...

FA-Q · Post by **FA-Q** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:55 am

The profit on a scooter is low. You do have to uncrate , store , set up, order, stock parts, lots of paperwork, pay rent, insurance, pay many other bills bla bla bla. There are many things that ad up quickly.
Only if you run a business will you know how it all shakes down. Scooter shop owners love scooters but still have to make a buck. Trust me when I say that most scooters are a good deal. I would still see if you can shave off a few bucks though.

Buddy_wannabe · Post by **Buddy_wannabe** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:00 am

The place I got my scoot sells them at list price, then they give you 10% off any accessories for a year .... they dont budge much on price ... they did derestrict mine for free

ovrkast · Post by **ovrkast** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:05 pm

Hi Molly-

I just recently purchased The Black Cat 50cc scooter, and it was $1799. Since it was a 50cc scooter it doesn't require registration or any type of DMV fees, so the only thing I paid for was assembly fees and sales tax.

Out the door was $2184.

Quo Vadimus · Post by **Quo Vadimus** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:16 pm

Maybe Genuine should continue its revolutionary mindset and just set an MSRP that includes dealer fees. They'd have better control of what people are actually paying, so folks on the forum wouldn't feel grumpy about paying $200 more than someone in the next state over did.

Of course, it's a lot less appealing to advertise a $3300 scooter than a $2700 scooter, when all the other brands' MSRPs will 'seem' cheaper.

bunny · Post by **bunny** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:26 pm

Of course, it's a lot less appealing to advertise a $3300 scooter than a $2700 scooter, when all the other brands' MSRPs will 'seem' cheaper.

Purely psychosociological manipulation, folks. Price points are to manipulate you into buying something at one price that you wouldn't have bought at a higher price. But in the extreme, if you opt for the lower priced point, you will spend that and more (often more than the original highest priced point) replacing the product.

The best example I can offer is OldNavy/Gap/Banana Republic. Same company. Same clothes. Same manfacturing countries, etc. Different price points. Different qualities of fabric. All made within inches of one another in some Vietnamese factory.

Yet we buy into it.

I for one have no problem paying a higher end price as long as I believe the product justifies the price. As a researching geek extraordinaire, I'll pay more for quality than I will for brand.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:33 pm

Quo Vadimus wrote:Maybe Genuine should continue its revolutionary mindset and just set an MSRP that includes dealer fees. They'd have better control of what people are actually paying, so folks on the forum wouldn't feel grumpy about paying $200 more than someone in the next state over did.

Of course, it's a lot less appealing to advertise a $3300 scooter than a $2700 scooter, when all the other brands' MSRPs will 'seem' cheaper.

Yeah, the thing is, other brands don't do this—including the brands sold right next to Genuines in some dealers or, worse, in competing dealerships. There's also the fact that some of the variation in OTD prices has to do with shipping. Shipping prices are going up with fuel prices. The other variables are labor for set up and pre-delivery inspection (PDI), taxes, and title/license/registration fees. These can vary within a state and certainly do between states. For instance, in CA a 50cc scoot needs to be registered and plated the same as a 125 or 150.

The only thing that anyone has any real control over is the labor fees for setup and so on and that's up to the individual dealer, not Genuine. But as more scooters sell, and demand is high, this occupies more of the mechanics' time and I think it's less and less likely we'll see this fee waived.

DennisD · Post by **DennisD** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:42 pm

Transportation costs vary depending on where you are in this great nation and they are only going up.

The dealer has to pay whomever is setting up the scoots after they arrive and prep them for sale. He has to pay his bills to keep the doors open and make a profit to feed his family and send those brats of his to college.

One scooter purchased from a large dealer went out the door with me with NO transportation or dealer prep charges. Another one included transportaton and dealer prep but they discounted it 50%.

Its part of buying NEW.
You can always wait and buy used to avoid those charges and get a better price - maybe.

Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

If you want more negotiating room, you will probably have to wait until the current "fad" fades.

Dennis

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:00 pm

Hey, folks, please leave out the political comments, even when you're just being sarcastic or making a joke. MB includes a broad array of beliefs on a lot of things and we don't need to sour friendly atmosphere by rankling other members or starting flame wars.

I've edited out political comments from one post and deleted another for this reason.

topic1.html

Thanks.

DennisD · Post by **DennisD** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:05 pm

Whoops, I have sinned again.

Sorry Eric, and I do accept the flogging. I even went back to edit but you beat me to it.

Dennis

bunny · Post by **bunny** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:11 pm

sorry about that...please forgive me. will not happen again.

DennisD · Post by **DennisD** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:22 pm

bunny wrote:sorry about that...please forgive me. will not happen again.

Ohhh yes it will! I told Eric the same thing and look what happened. He must keep a close eye out. Generally use the "time for meds" excuse but I think he's catching on.

Dang, I just told on myself.

Well, anyway, thanks for keeping the place civil Eric.

Dennis
Now wearing sack cloth and ashes