4-stroke, 50 state Stella at last… ?

[Kurt]

One thing that most people seem to miss is the reason WHY a 4-stroke Stella is needed.

As of the 2010 model year the national emissions standard enforced by the EPA will match the current California standard set by the CARB.

Stella is being billed today as "Too Hot for California", but next year it will be too hot for ANYWHERE unless serious changes are made. THAT'S why a 4-stroke Stella is needed.

[KRUSTYburger]

^ what he said...

as far as the Chetak is concerned, I would probably get one if they weren't so funky lookin. It's mostly the rearview
mirrors and the front turn signals... also the "neck" is long and skinny and the headset around the headlight is
weird too. Just my opinion though, they could be cool all Big Daddy Roth style with flat black and slime green.

[Kaos]

If it is anything like the Bajaj Chetek it sure to tank here in the USA. Thats all I keep thinking about when I hear about this new 4T Stel. Anyone have any engine specs?

J

Nothing wrong with Chetaks. They're dependable bikes, though a little bit slow.

[ericalm]

illnoise test rode one:

http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/05/the-new-stella-unveiled

STOKED.

[KRUSTYburger]

AWESOME!!! Love that "ivory" color too.

[Kaos]

Well so much for the "You'll never fit a 4 stroke in there!" crowd. Seems they've done it with very little modification(externally anyway)

I'd love to ride this in person and see how it compares to the 2-stroke Stella... Or the Bajaj for that matter.

[djelliott]

Well so much for the "You'll never fit a 4 stroke in there!" crowd. Seems they've done it with very little modification(externally anyway)

I'd love to ride this in person and see how it compares to the 2-stroke Stella... Or the Bajaj for that matter.

I ride my friends Bajaj Legend pretty often and that is a 4T as well. I think it moves about just fine. If it's anything like that it'll do well. I'd still get the 2 T myself.

[laxer]

Well so much for the "You'll never fit a 4 stroke in there!" crowd. Seems they've done it with very little modification(externally anyway)

I'd love to ride this in person and see how it compares to the 2-stroke Stella... Or the Bajaj for that matter.

I ride my friends Bajaj Legend pretty often and that is a 4T as well. I think it moves about just fine. If it's anything like that it'll do well. I'd still get the 2 T myself.

Although I love the Chetak, I can't get over the styling of the Legend. I'd personally just keep my eyes open for a used Chetak if I were in Cali, much less expensive and just as reliable as a Stella.

[ericalm]

Well so much for the "You'll never fit a 4 stroke in there!" crowd. Seems they've done it with very little modification(externally anyway)

I'd love to ride this in person and see how it compares to the 2-stroke Stella... Or the Bajaj for that matter.

I ride my friends Bajaj Legend pretty often and that is a 4T as well. I think it moves about just fine. If it's anything like that it'll do well. I'd still get the 2 T myself.

Although I love the Chetak, I can't get over the styling of the Legend. I'd personally just keep my eyes open for a used Chetak if I were in Cali, much less expensive and just as reliable as a Stella.

I have no experience with the Chetak, but have read and heard that some model years had some serious reliability problems.

Stella has a 2-year warranty with roadside assistance!

[djelliott]

Well so much for the "You'll never fit a 4 stroke in there!" crowd. Seems they've done it with very little modification(externally anyway)

I'd love to ride this in person and see how it compares to the 2-stroke Stella... Or the Bajaj for that matter.

I ride my friends Bajaj Legend pretty often and that is a 4T as well. I think it moves about just fine. If it's anything like that it'll do well. I'd still get the 2 T myself.

Although I love the Chetak, I can't get over the styling of the Legend. I'd personally just keep my eyes open for a used Chetak if I were in Cali, much less expensive and just as reliable as a Stella.

Oh yeah, that head set is terrible! That's the first thing to go. He's looking around for parts and we're figuring out how to rebuild it. If he can't get a more Chetak looking head set we're doing a bare bar and building a gauge cluster for him.

[illnoise]

The Chetak vs. the 4T Stella is a whole 'nother story, and I'm not really qualified to compare their performance, since I've (carefully) ridden each for a total of maybe 10 minutes.

BUT, consider this:

Stella 2: Almost entirely interchangeable w/30 years of vespa parts/accessories

Stella 4: Somewhere in between

Chetak: Entirely proprietary, and defunct after 3 years of production

If you're buying a PX, Stella, or Chetak, then you have to admit you have some allegiance to the Vespa design. The farther away you get from an actual PX, the farther away you're getting from 30+ years of Vespa P-series support, knowledge, and a parts supply that will probably exist long after we're all dead. Genuine is a great company with the brightest future in American scootering, but they're no Piaggio. and LML is <i>certainly</i> no Piaggio. I'm not talking about fandom or tradition or brand loyalty here, I'm talking about institutional memory. Even if the 4-stroke Stella is wildly popular, even if they sell a half a million of them over the next several years, that's still just a tiny fraction of the number of Vespa PX scooters out there. If the scooter market dried up in America overnight, you can still call any of thousands of scooter shops in Europe for a new Vespa PX exhaust or cylinder head or performance parts or a carbon fiber headset. A bit of that supply isn't compatible with the 2T Stella. A good deal more of it goes out the window with the 4T Stella. And it was never there at all with the 4T Chetak...

Not at all saying that to diminish the accomplishment and the impact of a 4-stroke Stella. There's a market for it, and it will do well, and Genuine will surely support it long after most of the other scooter companies in America are long gone. I'm just explaining why some people would see the 2T model as being superior to the 4T model.

As far as emissions, Genuine asserts that the current 2T Stella model will remain legal in 49 states in 2010. Comparing that to the Rattler is apples and oranges, though, every engine is different. Displacement, carburetion, vapor recovery systems, fuel systems, exhaust, compression, and many other factors determine amounts of emissions. A hundredth of a centimeter difference in the size of a carb jet passage impacts emissions. The assumption that ALL 2strokes will be banned in 2010 is just not true, though it is fair to say that it will impact the 2-stroke market.

As I understand it, some of the regs are based simply on emissions, so an efficient 2-stroke engine could meet those. Sadly, others are arbitrarily based on engine design and emissions systems, requiring things that may not be possible on some engine designs, especially older ones. I'm surprised as anyone that a 2T Stella would meet these allegedly-restrictive 2010 changes, but that's what Genuine told me, and they know this stuff way better than I do. But they also see a changing market and it's smart to change to adapt to that market, especially because Piaggio has abandoned their vintage design and there's still a market for it in these 'greener' times.

[rtaite]

there is one advantage to a 4T (all other factors being equal): longevity. 2 stroke carburetted motors generally require more frequent rebuilds. As many know, there are 4 stroke Honda motors from the old 50s Super Cub which may have over 50,000 miles on the clock which are still running strong. Certainly, 4 strokes are easier to make clean and they run very quietly for those who don't like the harsher exhaust note of a two stroke.

All this being said, I still think Phil went on the cheap by not requiring a direct injected 2T or a throttle body injected 4T to meet California's tough emissions. If you're going to go the 4 stroke route, why not go ahead and add EFI at the same time? Don't wait for CARB and the EPA to force you to clean up your act -- be proactive. EFI lengthens the time between services (by not fouling the oil as quickly) and it gives very gratifying power delivery off the line. In a four stroke, this might improve the rider experience for those who lust for the low end torque of a two stroke and feel robbed by this newest sacrifice to the gods of environmental protection.

Ralph

[illnoise]

I've always wondered that too... I actually asked them about fuel injection in general... They cited the added cost to the consumer (IIRC, at least $100 per bike), plus the cost of stocking additional parts and training dealers.

Obviously, many other companies are doing it, so it'll come eventually, though. (Maybe not to the Stella, but probably to the Buddy/PGO lineup). At this point, I guess the majority of Genuine customers maybe don't see the benefit (ecological/economical as well as improved reliability) and that MSRP bump would cut their competitive advantage in the market? I dunno, just speculating.

Bb.

[ericalm]

PGO already had injected versions of several of their scoots, so I agree with illnoise that we'll probably see those as Genuine models here first.

I don't know if LML has any fuel injected engines. There may have been a bit of a technology or engineering hurdle on that end, too.

[Kaos]

PGO already had injected versions of several of their scoots, so I agree with illnoise that we'll probably see those as Genuine models here first.

I don't know if LML has any fuel injected engines. There may have been a bit of a technology or engineering hurdle on that end, too.

Not just several of their scoots, the Buddy specifically as the iBubu. So it wouldn't be a big stretch to get an injected Buddy over here.

[djelliott]

Here's a link to the PGO EFI description.

http://english.pgo.com.tw/technology2.html

[gearhead]

interesting, i hope they keep this 4 stroke in production after they've decided that they will be making these for jan. 2010