filler up!

jediblues · Post by **jediblues** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:40 am

maybe i am blind or the fact that it's 138 am but how much fuel does the buddy take??

bwilms · Post by **bwilms** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:24 am

The most I've filled up with is 1.3 gallons. On average, I put in a gallon each time I fill up.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:13 pm

I’m too scared to go any lower so the most I’ve have put in is 1.2 gallons but most of the time its about 1 gallon for me as well

rossini · Post by **rossini** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:49 pm

Is the general consensus that 87 octane is the most optimal gas for the Buddy 125?

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:20 pm

I read somewhere, perhaps in the glorious manual, that fuel capacity is 1.6 gallons. I've ridden with the gas gauge well into the red but not quite on the "E" peg. The most gas I've ever been able to put into the tank is just under 1.4 gallons. When I fill up, I typically add a gallon as fast as possible then pull the pump most of way out of the tank and fill to just under the brim by eye. My guess is, like most two wheeled vehicles, the stated fuel capacity is slightly exaggerated and is closer to 1.5 gallons.

So far I've only used premium, which is 91 octane in Colorado. Once we hit warmer weather I'll experiment with lower octanes.

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:35 pm

rossini wrote:Is the general consensus that 87 octane is the most optimal gas for the Buddy 125?

From what I have read by those who know way more about it than I, there is no advantage to using a higher octane gas than the regular 87 recommended for our engine.

I can also tell you that my father, a chemical engineer for Exxon research his whole career and paid to know these things, never puts higher octane gas than recommended in his own vehicles.

lou76 · Post by **lou76** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:45 pm

as has been discussed elsehwere, the octane reffers to the gas' ability to resist ignition, allowing for more compression for today's high compression engines... the b125 is not one of those high compression engines, so it doesn't require the higher octanes...

markontour · Post by **markontour** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:39 pm

I've only filled up once, but I've put 93 octane in and my scoot will get nothing but the best.

I put 1.5 gallons in my scoot.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:22 am

I would recommend NOT using the higher octane gas. All you will gain from it is more heat. Not neccessarily a good thing in an air-cooled engine.

--Keys

pesqueeb · Post by **pesqueeb** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:16 am

My local Scooter shop stated most definitely to use the "good" stuff when we bought our scoots. Whether or not it actually makes a difference, I don't know. But really, when it cost you 3 bucks to fill up for the week with the high octane stuff, why be cheap? Keys makes a good argument about heat however. I wonder what the difference in actual temp values are. Somewhere out here we've got to have some sort of mechanical or chemical engineer who can clear up the regular/premium argument.

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:00 pm

pesqueeb wrote:My local Scooter shop stated most definitely to use the "good" stuff when we bought our scoots. Whether or not it actually makes a difference, I don't know. But really, when it cost you 3 bucks to fill up for the week with the high octane stuff, why be cheap? Keys makes a good argument about heat however. I wonder what the difference in actual temp values are. Somewhere out here we've got to have some sort of mechanical or chemical engineer who can clear up the regular/premium argument.

1. Good stuff doesn't have to mean high octane. It could just mean don't buy cheap no name gas. I wasn't there so I don't know what he said, maybe he specifically mentioned octane. At any rate, a guy at the shop doesn't necessarily have to understand how octane works to sell or repair a scooter.

2. My father is a chemical engineer, as I stated previously. He was Chief Engineer in charge of research for Exxon Chemical. I have to asume he knows what he is doing in this case. He never puts higher octane fuel than rated in any engine, whether car, boat, or lawn mower.

3. I always put 87 octane in my BD125 and it has run great so far from 15 degrees F to 65 degrees F. No hesitation, pinging, or poor performance.

mybuddy · Post by **mybuddy** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:32 pm

On average I have been putting in a little over a gallon. After I bought the Buddy last summer I bought a 5 gallon gas tank and a little hand pump from the tractor supply store. Riding 40 miles a day back and forth to work, it makes it easier to fill up at home instead of having to go to the gas station all the time.

I have been putting the higher octane gas in my scoot ever since buying it and have no problems yet with it.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:45 pm

Even though we get great gas mileage on our little scoots – wouldn’t have been better to have a larger gas tank – so we would get the range of automobiles – 3 gallons would have done it.
Anyone thought of or have added an auxiliary gas tank?

polianarchy · Post by **polianarchy** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:29 pm

I have been letting the needle middle out in the red "E" zone, and have refueled with 1.3 gallons...by eye, and by the auto-stop in the pump.

I asked the regular vs. premium question in an earlier thread, and the opinions varied (as they do in this thread). I say, test it out on your own scooter. I personally did not like the extra "pep" I perceived the premium gas giving my scooter. It felt a bit more twitchy than with the regular octane. I prefer the regular unleaded gas from Hess on Broad & Bainbridge Streets.

markontour · Post by **markontour** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:08 pm

lobsterman wrote: 1. Good stuff doesn't have to mean high octane. It could just mean don't buy cheap no name gas. I wasn't there so I don't know what he said, maybe he specifically mentioned octane. At any rate, a guy at the shop doesn't necessarily have to understand how octane works to sell or repair a scooter.

2. My father is a chemical engineer, as I stated previously. He was Chief Engineer in charge of research for Exxon Chemical. I have to asume he knows what he is doing in this case. He never puts higher octane fuel than rated in any engine, whether car, boat, or lawn mower.

3. I always put 87 octane in my BD125 and it has run great so far from 15 degrees F to 65 degrees F. No hesitation, pinging, or poor performance.

Very interesting info. I have a chemical engineer friend at Shell who only uses the high octane. I will need to do more research. I do agree about not going to the cheap ass stations, I mean my scoot is brand new and gets great mileage and I am willing to baby her. I will be getting a "hogg" (not really, just a regular cycle) soon, and I'll probably pose the same question from the guy I am buying from. I wonder if being in Houston (and our awesome--read insane--heat factor) makes a difference.

markontour · Post by **markontour** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:24 pm

Definitive info (well, maybe)...

http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/tra ... emium.html

Summary of this very short article is: There is no benefit if the octane is higher than what the engine needs.

I suppose that means we need to know what the engine needs.

pocphil · Post by **pocphil** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:12 pm

I am offically charging 1 Beer for every time I post this to some scooter forum. So, because I love the Modern Buddy forum so much I will consolidate it and we'll call it a freebie.

Laymans Guide to Octane

1 - OCTANE is the resistance to detonation. High compression engines cause fuel to pre-detonate - this is called KNOCK. It is dangerous to your motor.

2 - Scooters (all that I'm aware of) use notoriously LOW compression engines. 87 Octane has been shown to be fine. In high altitude areas I've even run 85 Octane in my race scooter and it did not knock one bit.

3 - HIGH OCTANE does not equal "Clean" or "Power" - Running a motor designed for 87 Octane fuel on 92 will actually make it run poorly, less power and worse mileage. The detergent additives are specified by the company selling the fuel and they are consistent from 86 - 94 octane.

4 - If your Jaguar, Snowblower, JetSki, Scooter, weedwacker etc. runs fine on 87 Octane without knocking or running on after you turn off the key, keep using it. Keep in mind modern vehicles are designed to run on a WORLD of different fuel qualities. The worst fuel you can pull from a pump in the US is going to be much better than the best fuel you can pull from a pump in India etc.

5 - Octane is not Octane. The numbers we use in the US are based on an average of 2 different testing methods. The number found In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the octane that would be shown on the pump is the Research Octane Number but in the United States and some other countries the headline number is the average of the RON and the Motor Octane Number. So, the gas we call 87 Octane R/M is actually written in most owners manuals as 92 or 93 Octane (RON).

If not specified assume the Octane number in the manual is a RON number. As most vehicles (scooters) are not manufactured in the US.

Here is our "real world" application data:

In 1999 the Ohio Department of Agriculture conducted a test of 1000 gas stations. 85% Of these stations were pumping non-premium octane fuel from their premium pumps. Audits of these stations were conducted and it was seen as a regular practice for stations to have "Regular" account for approximately 82% of their monthly sales. Yet it accounted for over 95% of the fuel they ordered from their supplier. Unless they were giving away thousands of gallons of 87 Octane fuel, it was quite obvious they were selling the 87 out of the higher octane pumps.

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:23 pm

pocphil wrote:I am offically charging 1 Beer for every time I post this to some scooter forum. So, because I love the Modern Buddy forum so much I will consolidate it and we'll call it a freebie.

pocphil,

Excellent, excellent information.

If I see you at WKRP I will gladly buy you a beer.

Also, I am glad I don't buy Premium gasoline for my scooter or our Subaru Outback, since I live in Ohio.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:05 pm

Thanks to pocphil for the layman's guide. I guess I've heard most of that before, except number 2. For some reason, I seem to remember my Aprilia owner's manual recommending premium gas, but perhaps not. And I thought the wondrous Buddy manual recommended premium as well, but perhaps not.

I certainly don't advocate wasting money on gas you don't need. Buy from a reputable source and buy the lowest octane you can while still avoiding pre-detonation. All I was saying in my post above was that I was going to wait for warmer weather to test different octane levels for knocking. But I will definitely test all octanes and switch to the lowest octane that runs without knocking.

And while we're on the subject, what does everyone think about using a stabilizer in the cold months? If you do, which brand do you use? And how about additives to clean your fuel line, especially after the long winter when you may have had stabilized gas sitting in your tank for 2 or 3 months?

DaBinChe · Post by **DaBinChe** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:17 am

markontour wrote:I've only filled up once, but I've put 93 octane in and my scoot will get nothing but the best.

I put 1.5 gallons in my scoot.

in this case the best is the recommend octane if you go higher then it is no longer the best

plus gas is gas it has a molecule structure that defines it, like water is h2o, only difference between station no-name and station brand name is the additives that is put in, like different brands water taste different cause of different minerals put into it.

All your gasoline will come form the same refineries in your area. Here in the Bay Area for example there are only a few refineries that ALL the gas stations gets their gasoline from. What you have to understand is that gasoline like ALL energy is traded and passed around. These companies just sell back and forth to each other so their is no difference in in the gasoline except the additives that are added once the gas is ready to be truck out to the gas station

GenuineSlacker · Post by **GenuineSlacker** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:23 am

That about sums it up. Are we still discussing things?

DaBinChe · Post by **DaBinChe** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:34 am

gt1000 wrote:
And while we're on the subject, what does everyone think about using a stabilizer in the cold months? If you do, which brand do you use? And how about additives to clean your fuel line, especially after the long winter when you may have had stabilized gas sitting in your tank for 2 or 3 months?

use seafoam for a stablilizer and fuel system cleaner

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:20 pm

Last bit from my Dad:

Dear Kev,
Going to higher than needed Octane fuel neither helps nor hurts - but, it costs a bit more. No advantages ever found unless the company puts different additives in their premium grade. Even then, doubtful advantage.
If RQ is RON, you can check the RON on some fuel pumps because they show you the formula components in (RON+MON)/2.
Much love, Dad
Happy Scootering!

So, we could just look at the pump, but mostly my Dad agrees mid grade is best for our scooter.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:45 am

Wow. MY dad never calls ME Kev. Of course, if that were my name, he might...

--Keys

Sailn · Post by **Sailn** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:19 pm

Gas is gas...at least to the distribution terminal where all the super cool high tech sounding adatives are put in. In fact, the fuel sold an Exxon station may not be made from Exxon crude or even refined by them. All the fuel is comingled in pipeline. This is supported by the fact that they don't even use pigs (big plugs that flow down the pipeline to seperate idfferent batches of fuel anymore.

It is just like the electric grid. There is absolutly no way to know if youe electrons are from wind, solar, coal or nuclear.

PasadenaSue · Post by **PasadenaSue** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:45 am

Thanks for the thread on petrol. My manual just says "UNLEADED ONLY" under fuel - big help that is! Looks like I'll be running 87 octane.

Phuket · Post by **Phuket** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:52 am

When I've gotten gas, the nozzle autostops at about .85 gallon, and I am afraid to put too much gas in. (I was just on E when I filled up.)

When you do fill up, how full is full? I'd like to get it as full as I can without being dangerous, or heaven forbid, having gas spill into my pet carrier.

I have a 12 mile roundtrip commute, so I get gas quite frequently.

Thanks Buddies!

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:41 am

It's too full when the gas starts overflowing out into the baggage area, so I suggest filling until that starts happening, going back in time a moment and stopping right before it happens again.

Seriously though, the pattern I have settled into is to ride well into the red zone and then add 1.2 gallons. Maybe not real accurate or maximum efficiency, but it seems to work. Most of the time, the difference between the 1.2 gallons I buy and the max that might have gone in before overflow has got to be pretty slight. So what if I could have added another tenth of a gallon?

Now, if you are riding the Lake Erie Loop or out on the plains where gas stations are few and far between, maybe it might be more important. You really just need to pay attention since the Buddy has no "reserve".

Kurzer · Post by **Kurzer** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:25 pm

pocphil, I now know more about gasoline than I've ever wanted to know

very good info. I had not known all that before, but, I did notice a drop in performance when I tried a tank of 92. So it's 87 from now on

Elm Creek Smith · Post by **Elm Creek Smith** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:31 am

Well, when I ran out of gas it took 1.642 gallons to fill it up.

ECS

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:22 am

Elm Creek Smith wrote:Well, when I ran out of gas it took 1.642 gallons to fill it up.

ECS

Thanks for posting this, it's a real public service announcement. Makes me think I can nurse a little more mileage out of the red zone.

Elm Creek Smith · Post by **Elm Creek Smith** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:58 pm

gt1000 wrote:
Elm Creek Smith wrote:Well, when I ran out of gas it took 1.642 gallons to fill it up.

ECS
Thanks for posting this, it's a real public service announcement. Makes me think I can nurse a little more mileage out of the red zone.

Did you miss the part about running out of gas? Pushing your bike a quarter of a mile then coasting downhill to the gas station is a helluva way to extend you mileage.

ECS

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:00 am

Hmmm, I filled up with the scoot just into the Red E tonight and put in less than a gallon. I'm thinking I'll put some gas in my little gallon jug and keep it in the back next time to see how far into the E I go before I run out. I'd like to be able to figure out my gas mileage, even if it is not completely accurate. Since I went 110 miles before filling up (and I put less than a gallon in at fill up), I figure I'm getting pretty good mileage....

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:08 am

The very first time I had gas poured into my scooter was when a local radio station and scooter dealer was having a promo to give away free gas to scooters. The guy from the dealership filled it up by just looking at the dial on the pump, overfilled it, so we had to wipe the excess off.

After that incident, i always just put in 1 gallon when the meter is anywhere in the red E zone. Then, i take the nozzle out and just slowly put in fuel until i can see it close to being full. Unless its nighttime, this is extremely easy to do and see exactly how much more fuel you can put in w/o going over.

That's it

KidDynomite · Post by **KidDynomite** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:06 am

I've put 1.58 into my tank. I only fill it like that in the daytime. Otherwise, I only put about 1.3 in and move on.

ThisDude · Post by **ThisDude** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:06 am

The way I determine when to fuel up is when I first get into the red zone I know I'll only have about 30 miles before I'm empty and when I fill up it's almost always at 1.4 gallons so I cut it pretty close but I'll have about 20 miles or so worth of reserve. Just in case too I always carry an emergency quart of gas in a small plastic canteen, just gotta remember to never drink from it.

trevo_man · Post by **trevo_man** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:45 pm

I have been filling up with regular (85) for months and my buddy has a bit of ping after I shut it off. I decided to try a tank of plus (88 ) this time to try and reduce it, but ran into a few problems. My buddy had a really hard time starting at the gas station. I may have flooded it, but I filled up the same way I do every time and it has always fired up with no problems. Also, on my way home when I hit 50 mph the throttle cut out twice. Each cut out was only a second or two long, but when you are trying to accelerate and nothing is happening it's a big deal. Can these things just happen when you switch Octane, is it just the engine adjusting to the difference in fuel?

Also, upon examining the little metal engine specs plate underneath my scoot, it reads "Fuel: 92 RQ Unleaded or higher" Now what does that mean?

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:25 am

trevo_man wrote:Can these things just happen when you switch Octane, is it just the engine adjusting to the difference in fuel?

Lots of discussion here at MB on octane, you can search for what pocphil had to say, short version is middle grade is probably what is intended for the Buddy 125 but lots of folks use the low end without too much trouble.

I'm no scooter mechanic, but I'd say your problem isn't changing octane levels.

jennabugblue · Post by **jennabugblue** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:44 am

jediblues wrote:maybe i am blind or the fact that it's 138 am but how much fuel does the buddy take??

ok so i went to the scooter store of Boise cause i was pricing out new scooters but the brochure says it takes 1.7 gallons...thats up to 170 miles. yay i can multiply!

StL_Stadtroller · Post by **StL_Stadtroller** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:50 pm

trevo_man wrote:I have been filling up with regular (85) for months and my buddy has a bit of ping after I shut it off.

say what??

Are you talking about the normal, heat-expansion / cooling noises motors make?

Or is your motor dieseling after you shut it off?

Or are you maybe saying that it backfires after you shut it off?

the "ping" that people talk about in relation to octane is the (normally inaudible) sound of fuel pre-igniting in the combustion chamber too soon - ie. before the spark.

ryder1 · Post by **ryder1** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:55 pm

I was told to buy premium gas too. Something to do with gunking up the carb with cheap gas.

I put a cheaper brand of gas in the buddy and it doesn't start up immediately with one try until I emptied the tank and put the good stuff in then buddy is back to starting up.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:21 pm

Motorsports told me to run premium also. However, my Buddy does just fine in mid-grade and regular.

aquafina · Post by **aquafina** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:33 am

Silly question: I filled my tank for the first time today (brand new rider) and I couldn't figure out how to work the thing! The pump would stop on me but I know for certain it is not full! Do I push down and tilt or just push down? I thought it would be like a car...

The Ninja · Post by **The Ninja** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:23 pm

Aquafina, No need to realize that a scooter gas tank is more shallow then a car tank. If the nozzle touches gas in your tank it will trigger the overflow stop.

I just filled up this week and you need to hold the nozzle up in the filler neck. Just go gentle on the trigger. Once it clicks pull the nozzle out a bit further. I normally fill mine to right where the tank's neck begins.

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:27 pm

Yeah, I fill mine up that same way The Ninja described- to just under the inside lip.

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:03 pm

Ms. Milan wrote:When I first saw the title of this tread, I though you all would be talking about cars. I spent $45 dollars filling up my Element yesterday. I about died. I live in a small town, so if I need to pick up something at the market this summer, and because I have to small boys (3 and 5), I will be using my bicycle. I would love to be able to make local rides to the market on the scoot. Anyone seen a buddy with a sidecar? The speedlimit in my town is 25mph. So its not about speed. Just safety.

Mike at NoHo Scooters did mount a sidecar to a Buddy but to my knowledge it was never deemed stable or even usable.

How often do you need to carry something in the back of the Element? I had a friend who was spending so much on gas because of her commute that she actually saved money by getting a second car with much better gas mileage and using her Excursion only when needed. (It was a long commute—she was spending about $600/month on gas!)

5 bud7 · Post by **5 bud7** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:55 pm

trevo-man found a plate that states-fuel 92 rq unleaded, I have one also,so I assume it is on all american buddy's Isn't that our premium?

aquafina · Post by **aquafina** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:19 pm

Thanks Ninja.

nissanman · Post by **nissanman** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:00 am

Uh-oh, the fuel debate continues on. Since a message board is all about .02 from everybody... use the .02 with the best exchange rate. Since POC Phil sells, services, races and modifies scooters I'll take his advice on what fuel works best in them. Since Bobcat20 sells insurance, he's a good source for insurance information. Krusty is quite the animator... what looks good with my scoot? I sell cars and everybody else has at least one thing they know about, I mean really really know about. Everyone's input is valuable and might bring up points of view not thought of before. But I gotta think the POC Phil's experience means that he's had the fuel debate with plenty of people over the years far better to debate with than me, as I said I'll take his word on it.
Sooooooooo what really matters is the Buddy has a 1.6 gallon gas tank on it. Remember Fill, ride, repeat. If enough enjoyment wasn't had Fill, ride, repeat again.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:32 am

5 bud7 wrote:trevo-man found a plate that states-fuel 92 rq unleaded, I have one also,so I assume it is on all american buddy's Isn't that our premium?

I could be totally off on this, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that octane ratings were not consistent internationally...? Or was that the crack talking?

Modern Buddy

filler up!

filler up!

OCTANE psychosis

Re: OCTANE psychosis

Re: filler up!