What's the scoop with SYM-USA?

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:21 am

What's the deal with SYM-USA aka Carter Brothers? It doesn't look like they want to sell scooters in California. They don't seem to be pressing forward on their applications to the CARB for they SYMba or the Fiddle II. It's going on 2 years.

There would be demand for the SYMba especially in SoCal.

I was wondering out loud at my favorite scooter shop about what would happen it Flyscooters beat SYM to the market with their Fly Scout? My favorites salesperson said that they would not be very happy.

There were rumors about earlier this year that SYM (Taiwan) was not happy with Carter. But those were quickly dismissed by both sides.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:50 am

Maybe the Fiddle/Symbas are in line after the 4T Stella?

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:28 pm

I wasn't aware the Symba wasn't available there, that's weird. I think I read something a while ago about trouble with the Fiddle II, from what I've heard about the Fiddle II, California's not missing much, but the Symba's a bummer.

Carter is a kart company and the conventional wisdom is that they treat scooters as a red-headed stepchild even though I imagine they've made more money on scooters than karts for a few years now. SYM scooters are pretty great, but I've been pretty unimpressed with Carter Brothers. I'd bet the rumors are true and the denials were just PR spin/damage control.

TGB and Cobra had a similar public falling out, a TGB rep told me they were dissatisfied with Cobra and were going to come into the US on their own, then I went to the Cobra booth (right next to the TGB booth) and they said they had no idea. When I reported on it on 2SB, Cobra freaked out and threatened me and bullied me into apologizing and publishing a 'correction,' TGB just kept their mouths shut, and then a couple days later, I found out that I was right and Cobra knew the truth all along. As it ended up, neither company made any move, so they're both still floundering along in the US market. I imagine it's probably the same deal with Carter/SYM, neither company is pleased with the other, but the path of least resistance is appealing.

Mike @ NoHo Scooters · Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:22 pm

I was one of the dealers that originally pushed Carter Bros to bring in the Symba. They were supposed to have CARB approval one year ago and this still has not happened. I did recieve a call from my rep last week that they should have a signoff from Sacramento in a week or so, but im not holding my breath.

We had alot of interest in the Symba and we could have sold a bunch in the last year or so. I still have a list of about 30 people to call and im sure most either forgot or bought something else. I still have a bunch of Symba accesories on the shelf that I ordered last year, so im ready when they get here.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:20 am

Mike @ NoHo Scooters wrote:They were supposed to have CARB approval one year ago and this still has not happened. I did recieve a call from my rep last week that they should have a signoff from Sacramento in a week or so, but im not holding my breath.

Yeah, r-i-g-h-t.

Roose Hurro · Post by **Roose Hurro** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:36 am

Though I'm far from having the money to afford one, I've had my eye on the Symba for some time, with no good news, so far. My local dealer has one on display, but they can't sell it, which, I imagine, hurts even worse for customers who sit on it and fall in love.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wheelz · Post by **Wheelz** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:51 pm

that's it, I want my own thread about what sym owes us for waiting for the Symba

Just Kidding, kinda rabble rousing if you will.....

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:12 pm

that's it, you're banned.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:20 pm

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:21 pm

They're all absolutely right, we are *terrible* moderators. Eric's gonna fire us all when he gets back.

Wheelz · Post by **Wheelz** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:30 pm

illnoise wrote:that's it, you're banned.

and it only took a year or so....

polianarchy · Post by **polianarchy** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:12 pm

Lostmycage wrote:oops

HAHAHAHASHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Dibber · Post by **Dibber** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:35 am

I was considering buying an HD200 this year, but held off to see what is in the future. Reading SYM Forum, there is a lot of traffic about a large shortage of belts in the US, but Canada seems to have a good stock. Is Carter not carrying a good supply of parts, is there a financial problem, can we trust they will be here in the near future? Only time will tell, but one thing for sure, something needs to be done.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:34 am

I've got 14000+ miles on my original belt. Honestly, I'm not too concerned about the belt shortage. When I've needed parts (filters, pads and the like), they have been available. I think there is a lot more hand wringing going on than anything else.

Vic · Post by **Vic** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:25 pm

Syd wrote:I've got 14000+ miles on my original belt. Honestly, I'm not too concerned about the belt shortage. When I've needed parts (filters, pads and the like), they have been available. I think there is a lot more hand wringing going on than anything else.

Agreed. I have an RV 250, it is a comfortable scooter and more than capable of anything that I have any desire to do (other than perhaps tow a trailer like a big cruiser, but I can't afford a trailer anyway).

I think pretty much any scooter brand is going to have supply issues from time to time, that is jsut part of the deal. Hopefully, you can get your parts before you are going to be needing them and before it becomes an urgent situation.

I have a friend that rides a Vespa GT and she was just caged for 2 weeks because she needed a new gasket of some type. They knew about it ahead of time and ordered it, but could not get the part in, after a fwe weeks of waiting the scooter was sounding so bad that she had to stop riding it completely while waiting for the part to arrive which took another 2 weeks.

I hope that the parts that I need will be available before I need them, if not, I am going to be finding something else to use for transportation until it arrives. It sucks, but that is just the way it is.

-v

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:14 pm

SYM is in good shape and available worldwide, even if Carter Brothers dropped the line tomorrow and no one picked up the distributorship, SOMEONE (Scooterworks or one of the other big shops) would be able to source the common wear parts, and other parts could be tracked down in Europe. It's not like Italjet, where no one ever got any spares for them, anywhere.

In fact, PGO isn't nearly as strong outside of Taiwan and the USA as SYM, TGB, and Kymco, I'd be way more concerned about finding PGO parts in the future if I didn't know that Genuine was on solid ground and committed to supporting the bikes for the long haul.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:33 pm

I'll save everyone the trouble.

I think Genuine should communicate that fact to every current owner in the US!

Oh, no! Should my friend go out and stock up on headlight rings now, in case he drops his Buddy?

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:03 pm

Syd wrote:Oh, no! Should my friend go out and stock up on headlight rings now, in case he drops his Buddy?

No, you should tell your friend not to drop his Buddy.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:31 pm

http://www2.dothaneagle.com/dea/news/lo ... ty/166247/

That may affect the parts supply for SYMs. Wow.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:40 pm

You are just trying to be annoying, aren't you, Illnoise??? I just bought an HD200 this last Thursday! You could have told me BEFORE I bought it...

Bum'r

--Keys

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:57 pm

Just heard five minutes before I posted it. Sorry!

At least you have a great bike you'll enjoy. Like I said before, worst case (and this may be worst case!), SOMEONE will make spares available, somewhere.

Despite the implications of the story and some of Carter's advertsing, I'm sure they didn't manufacture SYMs there (they're made in Taiwan) so it shouldn't affect production of SYM scooters. I don't know for sure if that's where they actually warehoused bikes and parts, I'd imagine it is, but I don't know.

There's nothing on Carter, SYM-USA, or CarterSYM sites about it.

Though they did just announce a big price cut, and they've redesigned the main SYM-USA site since last time I checked, "borrowing" Genuine's hand-drawn headline look, ha.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:25 pm

Most Sym's are GY6 variants anyway, so parts are easily obtainable.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:47 pm

Carter Bros. is simply the distributor for SYM in the US and it's important not to confuse the two.

That said, who dropped the ball on getting the Symba (and the Fiddle II 125) into CA? Most companies know it can take six months or more. I have to wonder if the Symba didn't need some adjustments to meet the state's often ridiculous requirements.

You know that evap system that impairs the functioning of every bike it's installed in and is the first thing owners of most scooter makes/models disconnect or circumvent? It's required solely by CA. To meet the state requirements, it needs to be built in a way that (in most scooters) usually results in stalling and poor performance. On top of that, its benefit is minimal if any exists.

The point of that rant is that all sorts of issues and technicalities could have delayed the Symba. Sure, Carter Bros. should have submitted it for testing earlier and then got stuck in some kind of red tape limbo. But the ongoing delays are due to reasons wholly unknown to anyone outside Carter, SYM and CARB. In the meantime, many bikes have been submitted and passed, including the Stella.

irishtim · Post by **irishtim** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:17 am

I love my Symba. It's been great!

Carter Bros. stink like doggy-doo however. Talking to their personnel one gets the feeling that they're almost embarassed to handle scooters. Their buyer-incentives are exceedingly lame as well. If it weren't for the efforts of dealers (e.g. POC) Sym wouldn't be making an excellent name for itself.