Well, a scooter left me stranded AGAIN!!!

[neotrotsky]

You think buying a modern scoot under 3k miles would be a good thing and something predictable, right? Well, not when it's *my* bike.

Riding along to class, and all of the sudden I lose power. I back off the throttle and the engine dies out. Able to get it out of the road, but when I try to start it, the kickstart and electric start spin freely without any feeling of compression. No chugging from the starter, but a free spinning cooling fan, and no resistance at all on the kickstart. Spark plug is still in, and no sign of a blowout on the exhaust side.

Footed a 100 buck towing bill and have to wait a WEEK to get a diagnosis from a local scooter shop, because the one in Tempe (the only Genuine dealer) never returned my call when they found out that my warranty didn't belong to me since I wasn't the original owner. Then again, the local Genuine dealer hasn't exactly been the most accommodating and I've had previous problems with their "mechanics" (which is more of a revolving door of MMI grads). But, the other shop, while small, overloaded and a bit slow, does great work on bikes and did my P200e and my old GTS250 Vespa right.

So, any guess? This kills us since we rely on the cheap gas and that bike as a 2nd mode of transport since me and my wife are in different directions. She's even agreed to the thought of a spare 50cc scoot to keep as a backup we can both ride (and is pretty cheap). So, anyone have a 50cc Buddy or Metro they don't want?

[SuperFlyBuddy]

...me and my wife are in different directions.

Haha, spoken by many married men over the ages.

Oh, and I guess a busted valve. Did you pull the plug and put your finger over the hole and run the starter? That would quickly tell you if you have compression.

[jprestonian]

If it's a Rattler 110, I doubt there's a valve issue. :)
.

[Lostmycage]

If it's a Rattler 110, I doubt there's a valve issue.
.

If there is, it's a *BIG* issue.

[keith1295]

There is a Buddy for sale at Victory BMW in Chandler.....

[pattio]

How did the plug look after the failure? Usually when you get a seizure the plug will show signs of lean running, and sometimes even have flecks of aluminum on it if a hole has blown in the piston. Next comes a compression check. Owning a compression checker is a good idea for any two-stroke owner. As a former P200 owner, you probably already know that the next step is to pull the head and have a look, although that is not really a side-of- the- road option on a Rattler the way it is on a P. Best of luck getting it worked out.

[agrogod]

Sounds like the rings gave out. Shouldn't cost to much to fix that, well as long as they didn't disintegrate .

[viney266]

Needs a new top end I'll bet. Slap a piston and rings in there ( hopefully the bore is okay and a hone will get it) and ...drum roll. Figure out why it seized. I'd go up one size on the pilot and main both at first. But, a good shop will be able to tell you what happened. The piston tells all (said in creepy voice)...That way it won't do it again.

[neotrotsky]

There is a Buddy for sale at Victory BMW in Chandler.....

I saw that Buddy for sale: 1600 for 29,000 miles. I'm better off fixing the Rattler and looking for something cheaper private party. That's too much for an 06 with that many miles

[neotrotsky]

I wasn't able to pull the plug because, unlike the P, I don't carry as many tools with me and the engine on this scoot isn't as easy to get to. But, I'm just pissed that a bike with only 2900 miles is proving to need a new top end. I know it was used as a shop "rental" bike and was probably hot rodded all to hell by others. I'm just MAJORLY pissed at myself that I didn't buy a Buddy last fall and instead insisted on sticking with 2-strokes. This is just not another cost we can afford. Hopefully a new top end can get in under 500 bucks. Otherwise I may just sell the bike for parts. The rest of the bike is in PERFECT shape, but I really just don't dig the Rattler but got it because it was a great deal (at the time).

If I had a Buddy 125/150 to trade it for, THEN I would have no problem getting the engine ground-up rebuilt for a good trade. Right now... I'm just not thrilled with any of it

[pattio]

Yeah having your 'reliable' vehicle let you down _so_ sucks. fwiw even if you had a spark-plug wrench with you it wouldn't have changed the picture much, a new plug isn't going to get a seized bike to run again, but its helpful to be able to learn what you can for troubleshooting, and while pulling the plug to look at it you also touch & verify that your spark-plug cap is firmly on and that the plug hasn't worked loose. I hope your shop can get you back on the road, I know at my old shop we quietly went the 'extra mile' for customers we knew needed their scoots urgently for transportation.

[rsrider]

They're making deals on Buddy's at Kawasaki of Santa Barbara. I was there today getting a quote on a Psycho ($3800 OTD, don't know if that's good or not) and they had 09 125's for $1400, don't know how much OTD. they would probably ship one to you if you're willing to buy.......................

[scootavaran]

Theres a 2008 Metro for only $1550 and only 155 miles down here in Bisbee.

http://sierravista.craigslist.org/mcy/2870806871.html

and dont forget this one.
http://sierravista.craigslist.org/mcy/2811451007.html

[neotrotsky]

Just started looking. There was a lead on a Piaggio Fly 50 for only 1100 at Chandler Vespa, but it's no longer there We're still split on what to do: Rebuild and ride the Rattler, buy a new bike and rebuild and sell the Rattler, or just sell the rattler for parts and don't bother getting it 100%. The Rat isn't a bad bike. Not at all!! But, it's just not what I want and this fiasco is just too much. I'm just fed up with my zero luck with 2-strokes blowing out for no reason right when I get my hands on them.

ALMOST got tempted by a '70's Honda CB 360T for only $1600. 5k original miles, new chain/brakes/carb rebuild and looking good for it's age! But, I should know better... But, it needs to be Phoenix local-ish since we don't have a way to tow and zero time to hunt for a bike. I've got my feelers out

[SuperFlyBuddy]

If it's a Rattler 110, I doubt there's a valve issue.
.

Oh yeah, 2 stroke...

I guess busted piston return spring then.

[Tom]

They're making deals on Buddy's at Kawasaki of Santa Barbara. I was there today getting a quote on a Psycho ($3800 OTD, don't know if that's good or not) and they had 09 125's for $1400, don't know how much OTD. they would probably ship one to you if you're willing to buy.......................

Oh man, I might have to go look at those..

[Dooglas]

Gosh neo, rotten luck alright. Whatever I might say that would sound a little critical, you've already said yourself . Seems like you are still on that search for a reliable daily rider. I have two suggestions from personal experience. Both obvious. The first is that Buddy's are a good buy and a reliable ride. Find a good used 125 or 150. The other is in the world of motorcycles. Look at a Honda Rebel or equivalent. Almost any one of the late model 250 Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, or Yamaha road bikes. Reliable, good performers, and real bargains when bought used. (heck, for the sake of argument, I recently bought a late model Suzuki S40 - a superb little 650 thumper that does just about everything. Got it with 1500 miles at under $3K. Used motorcycles can be incredible values.)

[Wheelz]

$500 for a new top end that seems a bit steep to me...
Sorry for the bad luck Neo. From what you describe that is exactly what happened to mine, I didn't have a whole lot of miles on it then either but, after the fix, I got another 20k out of it before my next major enigine issue.

[ericalm]

$500 for a new top end that seems a bit steep to me...

With installation, it's pretty reasonable! Depends on how much needs replacement, though—it could run much higher.

[neotrotsky]

Gosh neo, rotten luck alright. Whatever I might say that would sound a little critical, you've already said yourself . Seems like you are still on that search for a reliable daily rider. I have two suggestions from personal experience. Both obvious. The first is that Buddy's are a good buy and a reliable ride. Find a good used 125 or 150. The other is in the world of motorcycles. Look at a Honda Rebel or equivalent. Almost any one of the late model 250 Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, or Yamaha road bikes. Reliable, good performers, and real bargains when bought used. (heck, for the sake of argument, I recently bought a late model Suzuki S40 - a superb little 650 thumper that does just about everything. Got it with 1500 miles at under $3K. Used motorcycles can be incredible values.)

The problem with all of those: Too expensive. This transportation fiasco has left us totally tapped for cash. I have less than a grand after today's incidents to figure out transportation (there's been ALOT of other things falling apart lately). Right now, none of those bikes are in my price range. I'm simply stuck with the Rattler: A bike that *may* be a good bike to everyone else on the planet, but one I dislike and I cannot be rid of, even if the engine is completely redone by my bets.

And, the kicker is that the reason I settled on a "modern" scooter was because this month we are moving from one city in the valley to the other, and I have full time school along with a more than full time schedule at the theater. Having two sets of wheels is critical, and this has come at the worst time. And, where I am living now doesn't allow me to do ANY form of maintenance on my motorbike. This means that I even get nasty letters taped to my door from the apartment complex management when someone rats on me for filling the oil reservoir on the scooter This complex is evil.

[Love2Fish]

They're making deals on Buddy's at Kawasaki of Santa Barbara. I was there today getting a quote on a Psycho ($3800 OTD, don't know if that's good or not) and they had 09 125's for $1400, don't know how much OTD. they would probably ship one to you if you're willing to buy.......................

The 2009 125's are listed in an on-line ad for $1499 at Kawasaki of Santa Barbara.

I called last week and they want almost $2500 out the door. I feel that is very dishonest to lead people to believe the bike is $1500 and then increase the price to $2500. Not cool. I realize there is sales tax but that only comes to $162 but $2500?

[michelle_7728]

So they want about $800 to prep the bike? Is that the going rate these days?

[Love2Fish]

So they want about $800 to prep the bike? Is that the going rate these days?

I was told by a dealer today that the freight charge for 09's was $150. Now it's jumped up to $280. I've seen a picture of what the bike looks like in the box from the factory. It looks fully assembled and ready to ride, except for minor packing stuff like wrapping of the seat, etc.

[TVB]

I've seen a picture of what the bike looks like in the box from the factory. It looks fully assembled and ready to ride, except for minor packing stuff like wrapping of the seat, etc.

In addition to the final steps of assembly, there's also some work involved in getting the engine ready to run (e.g. adding fluids) and testing.

[ericalm]

So they want about $800 to prep the bike? Is that the going rate these days?

In California, OTD price also includes taxes and registration, which is A LOT. The state has raised the costs several times over the past couple of years.

[Plisar]

Still a lot for dealer/state fees. Vespa Motorsport is only about 500-800 at most. Probably less. They're a good basis of comparison because it doesn't get anymore honest than those guys.

[siobhan]

neo, first, I'm sorry for all the issues you've had with your various bikes. That sucks.

Some thoughts on bikes for under a grand.

Two words: Honda Elite
I suspect that bikes hold their value in Arizona better than in the frigid northeast, but I just did a quick look at the Phoenix CL and there were a bunch of Honda Elites for under a grand. Most of those were 80cc bikes and I don't know if that would be enough get-and-go for you, but there were a couple of 125/150s.

Consider a Honda Trail (CT90 or CT110). They're a hoot to ride, can haul a lot on the flat back rack, and good specimens can be had for under $1k. Oh, and get insane gas mileage and keep their value so you can turn around and sell it for what you have in it.

You do live in a place with some mighty fine off-road riding. Have you considered an older, small dual-sport, like a DR350?

I would also recommend that you tell every person you meet that you're looking for a reliable bike for under $1000. Someone will know someone who...

If it's 15 years or older and doesn't have title, you can always register it in Vermont and transfer registration over to Arizona (this is common practice).

Good luck. Remember, you meet the nicest people on a Honda because they're out riding and not swearing and cursing in the garage over a bike that won't start.

[Keys]

Jared, this happened twice to me. Discovered the factory recommended spark plug is too hot for this climate. Changed from a "7" bpr to an "8" br (not a projector plug) and never had another issue not of my own creation.

[neotrotsky]

Jared, this happened twice to me. Discovered the factory recommended spark plug is too hot for this climate. Changed from a "7" bpr to an "8" br (not a projector plug) and never had another issue not of my own creation.

Noted. Thanks! If I hold onto it I'll make sure to run a cooler plug.

[neotrotsky]

Well,official diagnosis: hole in piston.

It seems that the scooter I bought (which was claimed to only have an aftermarket variator) was a bodge job of an attempt to "hot rod" the scooter but came out half cocked. It had the wrong spark plug in it, no lower cylinder gasket and a bunch of wear on the engine that should not of been on a scooter with only 2800 miles. The dealer who sold me this bike shall remain nameless, since being in California and being well liked means what I say wont matter two whit's. But all I know ie that I got fucked on a scooter that was said to be 'nearly stock' . Doubtful I will rebuild the bike. 2nd attempt to buy from a dealer or 'builder'. Second time I have been screwed. With over $800 in parts and laborious just to get the bike to stock, this has been the biggest waste of time on a scooter I don't even care for

[Swordsman]

That.
Totally.
Sucks.


~SM

[RoadRambler]

^What Swordsman said. Man, feel for you big time.

Do you think it would be worth running your findings by the dealer who sold you the bike to see what he says? Of course it would feel risky to deal with him at all at this point, but if he offered you a really good trade in on something new, you could take it elsewhere for service after you got it. Since you say he is well liked, he should have some motivation for helping you out on your purchase that didn't last but what, 2 months? to keep his good reputation.

[neotrotsky]

At this point, it isn't even worth the time for me. At the end of the day I have a bike that is worthless and frankly I am done trusting any dealer with anything that is not new out of the crate where I can properly maintain it. I will email him when I get my proper laptop back on Saturday, but he was pretty clear it was an 'as is' affair. This was a used bike and being in another state I am pretty sure I don't have much a leg to stand on.

That being said, the Urban Commuter in Tempe have been great guys in trying to get my scooter up by the best means possible since I cannot get the time or space to fix it myself. Especially since the local Genuine dealer is probably the 2nd worst bike dealership in the state. Ultimately I would like to get a Buddy 125 or a new Stella 4T but that would require selling this scooter once it has completely rebuilt to stock and a trip down to Tucson. Two things that are not in the budget until at least August

[Edwub]

How could the dealer not know of the engine conditions? Or attempted modifications? Do they not inspect the vehicle they purchase before trading it to you? Did he tell you about any of these? What did he say about the condition? Did you ask about it?

If he misrepresented the vehicle, deliberately withheld information, whatever - aren't there consumer protection laws? Obviously what you purchased was not what you expected, and now it's a lemon. I'd take a quick look to see if you're protected by law, and then talk to the guy again. I don't think 'small claims court' is the appropriate place, but there's got to be something similar.


From what I've read of your posts, if you are in fact being completely screwed over by this guy, I just don't see how you're left without options. Especially as the lemon'ing of this vehicle wasn't due to a generic machinery failure, but by specific modifications and fiddling of previous owners that was not appropriately disclosed, I'm pretty sure there are laws on your side...

[Syd]

Have you even talked to the dealer? If he's well liked here, maybe he'll make it right. What do you have to lose? You very obviously feel like you got screwed anyway.

[ericalm]

How could the dealer not know of the engine conditions? Or attempted modifications? Do they not inspect the vehicle they purchase before trading it to you? Did he tell you about any of these? What did he say about the condition? Did you ask about it?

If he misrepresented the vehicle, deliberately withheld information, whatever - aren't there consumer protection laws? Obviously what you purchased was not what you expected, and now it's a lemon. I'd take a quick look to see if you're protected by law, and then talk to the guy again. I don't think 'small claims court' is the appropriate place, but there's got to be something similar.

From what I've read of your posts, if you are in fact being completely screwed over by this guy, I just don't see how you're left without options. Especially as the lemon'ing of this vehicle wasn't due to a generic machinery failure, but by specific modifications and fiddling of previous owners that was not appropriately disclosed, I'm pretty sure there are laws on your side...

Most consumer protection laws would not apply to a used vehicle. If the dealer was intentionally deceitful about the condition of the scooter, you might be able to go after them, but it's a tough thing to prove.

A thorough inspection wouldn't reveal all the things that are now wrong with the scooter or causing problems. The spark plug should have been checked, but it's not like a dealer should have to do a complete engine teardown of a used vehicle that seems to run well.

Could be the original purchaser hoodwinked the dealer, too, and didn't tell them of all the modifications.

[neotrotsky]

The bike was a shop-only bike and they insist that it was only owned by the shop. So, it's all their fault in what was done to the bike before I got it. Just got back from the shop (as in the shop in Tempe that is repairing it) a few hours ago and put a payment on the parts to get the engine rebuilt. Just a tick over $500 to correct the damaged of one bubba'ed up engine! And, there really is no sense on going back to the dealer since they already BS'ed me about the warranty and the fact that the bike is actually an '08, but they titled it as a '10. I was willing to overlook even that fact but it just seems like every aspect of this bike has some lie behind it. Why believe that they would say anything honest after all this mess?

I'm just so over this entire thing. I know that I'll have a shiny bike with an all new top end that is STOCK, a new set of roller weights, and what amounts to a brand new rattler since the chassis only has (well, to my knowledge) 2800 miles total. But, this bike has left such a stink in our lives that I'd be happy to see it go. The ONLY reason I'm keeping it right now is because I know it will now be dead reliable now that it's back to Genuine scooter specs. Otherwise, the moment I find another Stella or Buddy 125, this thing can see the door asap.

This whole thing has really taken the fun entirely out of this bike. Especially after dealing with the DMV to get the bike re-titled to the correct year

[ericalm]

The bike was a shop-only bike and they insist that it was only owned by the shop. So, it's all their fault in what was done to the bike before I got it. Just got back from the shop (as in the shop in Tempe that is repairing it) a few hours ago and put a payment on the parts to get the engine rebuilt. Just a tick over $500 to correct the damaged of one bubba'ed up engine! And, there really is no sense on going back to the dealer since they already BS'ed me about the warranty and the fact that the bike is actually an '08, but they titled it as a '10. I was willing to overlook even that fact but it just seems like every aspect of this bike has some lie behind it. Why believe that they would say anything honest after all this mess?

I'm just so over this entire thing. I know that I'll have a shiny bike with an all new top end that is STOCK, a new set of roller weights, and what amounts to a brand new rattler since the chassis only has (well, to my knowledge) 2800 miles total. But, this bike has left such a stink in our lives that I'd be happy to see it go. The ONLY reason I'm keeping it right now is because I know it will now be dead reliable now that it's back to Genuine scooter specs. Otherwise, the moment I find another Stella or Buddy 125, this thing can see the door asap.

This whole thing has really taken the fun entirely out of this bike. Especially after dealing with the DMV to get the bike re-titled to the correct year

Good grief, man. Sucks.

[Skootz Kabootz]

Wow. What a drag. I hope it is friggin perfect when you get it back! And if you do eventually buy another bike instead, that one is the deal of a life time. I think you've earned it!