Hi everyone! My name is David, I'm from Chicago and I just purchased my first scooter yesterday. I got a pretty fantastic deal on a 2009 Buddy 50 with under 500 miles.
I've been scouring the forums for the past hour, but I thought I'd post a new topic. I guess I'm looking for any tips or advice for a new scooter owner, specifically in Chicago.
I know my next steps on Monday include procuring insurance and finding a helmet.
I live in Lincoln Park, which is a relatively safe neighborhood, but I don't have a parking space at my building, so it looks like it's going to be a lot of street parking for me. Which brings up my next question; what are you guys doing for theft prevention in the city? U-Locks? Chain locks?
Sorry my thoughts are a bit scattered. If you have any advice at all, I'm open to hear it. Thanks!
Hi! Nice new ride! I am sure some people will give you some helpful answers to your questions. I am in the suburbs of Chicago myself. Driving a car in the city is adventure enough for me. Have fun with your new Buddy. Did you name it yet?
firstly, is chaining two scooters together an effective theft deterrent for the most part? and lastly, does anyone have an opinion of these, or any experience with them?
master lock street cuffs. i am thinking of cuffing two scoots together sometimes. effective?
maybe an answer to my question can add something to the thread for TS
dmsulli wrote:I got a pretty fantastic deal on a 2009 Buddy 50 with under 500 miles.
If it's been sitting unused that long, you may find that the battery is no longer in great shape, making it hard to start. The simplest (and most fun) solution to try for that is to give it some good long rides. The next step if necessary is hooking it up overnight to a charger such as the Battery Tender Jr. (You'll probably also want one of those for when the scooter gets stored for the winter.)
If it was left sitting with gas in it, you may also have problems with a gunked up carburetor, which might show up with stalling or just not getting enough power. Seafoam fuel additive might help with that.
Which brings up my next question; what are you guys doing for theft prevention in the city? U-Locks? Chain locks?
The main thing is that it's essential to chain your scooter to something, not just immobilizing the wheels. Two strong people can carry one of these to a waiting pickup truck.
If you have any advice at all, I'm open to hear it.
Have you had the scooter derestricted? Although it technically disqualifies it from classification as a "moped", it's an easy and very common modification that can get you another 10mph. Either way, riding a 50cc means learning some new ways to get around town. Try to stick to 25-35mph roads, especially at first. Scooters are supposed to be fun, and the best way to keep them that way is to keep the cagers off your butt.
JHScoot wrote:firstly, is chaining two scooters together an effective theft deterrent for the most part?
Maybe, if their handlebar locks are engaged or the wheels are immobilized. Then, instead of requiring two people to pick them up one at a time, you'd need four people, plus the extra hassle – and attention-grabbing spectacle – of moving them together. So it'd be substantially harder to steal them. But if they're out of sight, and the thief has time to round up some friends... not impossible.
If the handlebar locks aren't engaged, then all a thief would need is a second person to push the other scooter. That's not much of a deterrent.
Ulocks are pretty nice. I also like the stronger chains, but they are heavy and a PITA. Spend some $$ on decent security, but remember that given time and tools, if someone really wants it...
Esp. since you actually get humidity, I'd say go full face too, since it will help keep you warm when you want to push your cold weather riding boundaries/
Hey, i finally got my buddy last thursday uh yea and his name is Schnitzel now put 20 miles on him and he is sooo much fun !!!
And for his "birthday" i bought him racing stripes, those look awesome...
have the same question about the lock, what kind is the best? or easiest to use?
here at the mexican border, when its gone, its gone for good... so i wanna purchase a lock as soon as possible, tia
I guess the biggest thing I'm still worried about is parking. My building isn't going to have a place for me to park it, and I kinda knew that going in. Am I going to be freaking out every day and night if I park it on the street in Lincoln Park? I've already purchaed a Xena XX-6 disc lock with an alarm. I'm going to get a chain lock for it too to use in addition when that option is available.
Does anyone else solely park their scooter on the streets? Can anyone ease my fears?
JHScoot wrote:firstly, is chaining two scooters together an effective theft deterrent for the most part?
Maybe, if their handlebar locks are engaged or the wheels are immobilized. Then, instead of requiring two people to pick them up one at a time, you'd need four people, plus the extra hassle – and attention-grabbing spectacle – of moving them together. So it'd be substantially harder to steal them. But if they're out of sight, and the thief has time to round up some friends... not impossible.
If the handlebar locks aren't engaged, then all a thief would need is a second person to push the other scooter. That's not much of a deterrent.
is it very difficult / noisy to bust the handlebar lock?
dmsulli wrote:I guess the biggest thing I'm still worried about is parking. My building isn't going to have a place for me to park it, and I kinda knew that going in. Am I going to be freaking out every day and night if I park it on the street in Lincoln Park? I've already purchaed a Xena XX-6 disc lock with an alarm. I'm going to get a chain lock for it too to use in addition when that option is available.
Does anyone else solely park their scooter on the streets? Can anyone ease my fears?
i have read layers of security could work. even somewhat weak. several minor inconveniences that take time is too much work for lazy thieves
also a cover to keep it out of sight day after day from tempted eyes and passer by's. don't have a giant brand name emblazoned on the cover like Prima, Vespa, etc
JHScoot wrote:is it very difficult / noisy to bust the handlebar lock?
No too difficult. But it's easiest to lift the scooter into a truck, which is how they're often stolen.
Optimally, you want visual deterrents, physical deterrents and possibly some type of alarm. It's best to secure your scooter to SOMETHING that can't be moved. Wrapping a chain around it or immobilizing the wheels doesn't do much good.
So, 2 layers:
First a large chain to attach the scooter to something. A Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit is one of the best. I don't often have to park out in the open where I need to
lock up, so I have a Bull Dog U-lock and cable. Not as secure, but they do help me lock my gear to my scooter if I want to leave it. (Cable through the arms of the jacket and helmet visor.)
Second, an alarm disc lock. Xena is highly recommended, and we offer a discount for MB members. These both immobilize the front disc AND scream like hell if they're tampered with or moved. Add the cheap reminder cable which attaches to your handlebars. This adds a visual deterrent and keeps you from destroying your front disc by trying to ride off with the lock still attached.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
You DO need a city medallion, the scooter/motorcycle equivalent of a city sticker. They're like $50 and expire in June/July. Buy one now at the City Clerk or a currency exchange, then renew by mail when needed. If you're caught w/o one you get a ticket, and still need to buy one, with a late charge. Since you just bought your bike you can buy it now w/o a late charge.
You DO need up to date motorcycle plates and a motorcycle license. L-class for under 150cc, M-class for anything over 150cc. a Buddy is not a moped, mopeds have pedals and go 30 mph. Your bike is considered a full-fledged motorcycle by every law on the Illinois books and must follow all the same laws as cars.
The GOOD thing about the city medallion (actually a little metal tag now) is that it allows you to park in ANY residential parking area, which is really handy.
You can NOT park in Cubs/Bears/Sox restricted parking zones during a game.
You must pay full price to park on a metered block, and must park perpendicular to the curb. most meters have sticker-back receipts, tear off your half and stick the other half to your headlight.
You CAN NOT park on the sidewalk, or bike racks, or medians, or anywhere a car can't park, whether it's public or private property. You can get away with it in some residential neighborhoods, but all it takes is one angry neighbor to get ticketed every night for the rest of your life. NEVER try it in wicker park, the loop, anywhere busy with a lot of foot traffic. If you can't park somewhere safe and out of sight on your property with your landlords' permission, you're supposed to park on the street. And it's hard to lock it to something solid when you're parked on the street, which leads us to…
GET THE BEST INSURANCE you can afford. Scooters get stolen everyday, Comprehensive insurance is a must. Be sure your accessories are included.
Don't keep anything valuable in your 'pet carrier' (helmet bin) or topbox while your scooter is unattended. They're not secure at all.
DO keep your helmet in your pet carrier, not hanging from the helmet hook. Cubs fans LOOOVE to pee/spit/pour $8 beers in helmets.
DO NOT yank your plates while you're parked, thinking "they can't give me a ticket if I don't have plates!" (see below).
If you're breaking the rules, or even if the city thinks you're breaking the rules and you're not, the city can and will cut your chain with a plasma cutter, throw your bike on a flatbed on its side, and dump it at the tow yard next to the Metra tracks at Western and Grand. Then they'll charge you by the day to store your damaged bike and collect every fine/late charge they can get. So it's easier to just follow the law.
Use rivets or tamper-proof screws to attach your plate and city tag. Use ALL FOUR BOLTS on your plate. They can and do get stolen. Also use a razor blade to score a few lines in your registration sticker so it can't be yanked off easily.
DO learn to ride responsibly and never be aggressive, don't split lanes or try to pass people at lights. I've had people wave guns at me, get out of their cars and assault me, a friend was stabbed by a cabbie, it's not worth it, go with the flow, shrug off aggression, and try to relax. It's hard, I know.
Take a class, there are two great riding schools in Chicago, and a free-ish MSF course that's really hard to get into, but worth the effort. Also read the "Proficient Motorcycling" series. Then read them again and again. Memorize them and practice the exercises.
There is no helmet law, but if you have a family and friends that love you, I hope you'll consider a fullface. An armored jacket is handy, too, but DEFINITELY wear solid leather shoes and riding gloves are SUPER underrated, anyone who's landed on their hands even at 5mph will tell you, ha.
Sorry to be all doom and gloom, but it's a bit tough riding here, of course the good parts make it all worthwhile.
Check out Chiscooterlist and chiscooterevents on yahoogroups, and the Slaughterhouse rally list on facebook.
Go to Amerivespa in Lake Geneva in June, it's going to be huge (and of course Slaughterhouse here in Chicago over Labor Day)
Good to meet you, hope to see you around soon!
Bryan
2strokebuzz: When news breaks, we put it under a tarp in the garage.
illnoise wrote:DO keep your helmet in your pet carrier, not hanging from the helmet hook. Cubs fans LOOOVE to pee/spit/pour $8 beers in helmets.
I thought I was aware of all the hazards of owning/riding a scooter, but I must admit that someone pissing in my helmet was one that never crossed my mind.
illnoise wrote:DO keep your helmet in your pet carrier, not hanging from the helmet hook. Cubs fans LOOOVE to pee/spit/pour $8 beers in helmets.
I thought I was aware of all the hazards of owning/riding a scooter, but I must admit that someone pissing in my helmet was one that never crossed my mind.
Ralph
I think about this all the time which is why I bring my helmet with me if my pet carrier is full. People who live/have lived in big cities (I used to live in NYC) expect the worst from everyone and then smile when people behave nicely.
illnoise, you list is great. I love the scoring of the inspection sticker. I know a guy who steals other people's stickers for his unregistered bike and didn't think there was a solution.
uncleralph wrote:I thought I was aware of all the hazards of owning/riding a scooter, but I must admit that someone pissing in my helmet was one that never crossed my mind.
Better you find out about it here, rather than find out as you're putting on a urine-soaked helmet! : )
Even in a big city, it's probably not much of an issue but the OP said he lived in Lincoln Park, if he's anywhere near Wrigley (or any other sport arena or strip of bars) it actually happens a lot. Drunk sports fans never run out of ways to deface scooters. And of course it can fill up with rain, too. I never use the helmet hook except for brief stops.
Bryan
2strokebuzz: When news breaks, we put it under a tarp in the garage.
illnoise wrote:
You DO need up to date motorcycle plates and a motorcycle license. L-class for under 150cc, M-class for anything over 150cc. a Buddy is not a moped, mopeds have pedals and go 30 mph. Your bike is considered a full-fledged motorcycle by every law on the Illinois books and must follow all the same laws as cars.
Bryan, are you sure???? I was told by my scooter shop and in the State of Illinois BRC that under 50cc does not need a motorcycle endorsement in Illinois.
Man, the more I hear about Chicago, the more I am reconsidering moving there: Anti-scooter hooligans (from the homeland of Genuine scooters no less), anti 2A rights, anti-filmmaker (been hearing A LOT on other forums about the city's crack down on "illegal" filmmaking without permits on even YouTube uploads... they track them down!?!). I thought I survived NYC well. The sport "fans" and the city may be tougher than the drug gangs in South Phoenix
But, as for locks or any type of security, making it *look* difficult is the best option, because any lock can be defeated with a little thinking. I've personally busted off those "U-Locks" in about 4 seconds with just found materials. Column locks are just as easy with a good yank of the handle bars. The trick is to find a method of locking with as few points of purchase as possible. This means finding a lock that doesn't allow you to jam a pry bar in one part and use another as a fulcrum point. Those Master "cuffs" are an example of a good design, but not fool proof. The "fahgettaboudit lock" heavy chain is another good one I've used. Either one can be busted off in minutes, but it's better than seconds. And, add a bike cover and a very visible area and a bike thief will go for the easier target most of the time. Bike covers are a huge plus because a nice bike and a Chinese scooter look the same under a cover!
Lastly, make sure what you're locking to is tougher than your lock! I've seen people lay some heavy chains around a 1" square hollow tube garden fence. About 15 seconds with a hacksaw would make that a wash...
I actually took the effort to find a place where I could store my bike inside a secured gate and yard when moving just for the scooter. That being said, many people in many parts of the world store their scooters inside. I parked my Vespa in the lobby of the building I lived in while I was in Brooklyn
neotrotsky wrote:
Those Master "cuffs" are an example of a good design, but not fool proof...
yeah unfortunately nothing is. i ordered a pair and will post back itt to give impressions when they arrive, and how and where they fit on the scooter(s)
i feel encouraged by these vids. one guy seems a pro locksmith and it takes a skilled dude like him too much time to pick the lock on the cuffs. i mean he makes it look simple with the proper tools. but if the cuffs are situated a certain way, forget about it!
as another maker likes to say :p
cut? sure, second vid shows a cutting. but it takes a minute and makes a lot of noise. and again, just about any chain can be busted so its just as well imo
juls64 wrote:Bryan, are you sure???? I was told by my scooter shop and in the State of Illinois BRC that under 50cc does not need a motorcycle endorsement in Illinois.
Absolutely sure, I've been arguing this point for 15 years and I've done the research.
You do not need a L- or M-class endorsement for a MOPED (if you have a regular DL and are over 18):
(625 ILCS 5/1-148.2) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 1-148.2) Sec. 1-148.2.
Motorized Pedalcycle. A motorized pedalcycle is a motor-driven cycle whose speed attainable in one mile is 30 mph or less, which is equipped with a motor that produces 2 brake horsepower or less. If an internal combustion engine is used, the displacement shall not exceed 50 cubic centimeter displacement and the power drive system shall not require the operator to shift gears. (Source: P.A. 83-820.)
A Buddy 50 doesn't have pedals, puts out well more than 2HP, and travels well over 30mph, it does not qualify. Dealers (and to some degree manufacturers) often purposefully cloud the issue by not issuing an official HP spec, and many dealers, even ones we all like, very often flat out lie to customers about licensing and parking. A defunct dealership here used to issue laminated cards to customers listing a bunch of irrelevant laws to bolster your argument with the police, but as scooters grew in popularity, the police got smarter.
The Buddy 50, by Illinois standards, is a Class "L" motorcycle, and must observe the same laws as any motorcycle or car. The only difference between Class "L" and Class "M" is displacement and the size of the ridden test course. Once you hit 150cc, Illinois law makes no distinction between a Buddy and a Hayabusa (which is why everyone should take the test on a 150 and get a regular M license so you don't have to go back)
And Chicago laws trump Illinois law on some issues and is even more restrictive, especially regarding parking.
Trotsky, a lot of things about Chicago aren't great, but overall I love it here and wouldn't wanna live anywhere else. If you take the time to understand the rules, keep your bike legal, and use common sense, there's little to worry about. That said, the weather is not the best for scootering, keeping multiple bikes legal can get expensive, and parking/riding in heavy Chicago traffic is honestly not much fun, though I'd think that'd be the case in any major city.
2strokebuzz: When news breaks, we put it under a tarp in the garage.
illnoise wrote:Absolutely sure, I've been arguing this point for 15 years and I've done the research.
You do not need a L- or M-class endorsement for a MOPED (if you have a regular DL and are over 18 ):
(625 ILCS 5/1-148.2) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 1-148.2) Sec. 1-148.2.
Motorized Pedalcycle. A motorized pedalcycle is a motor-driven cycle whose speed attainable in one mile is 30 mph or less, which is equipped with a motor that produces 2 brake horsepower or less. If an internal combustion engine is used, the displacement shall not exceed 50 cubic centimeter displacement and the power drive system shall not require the operator to shift gears. (Source: P.A. 83-820.)
A Buddy 50 doesn't have pedals, puts out well more than 2HP, and travels well over 30mph, it does not qualify.
If you read the text carefully, you'll see it doesn't specify that it must have have pedals. They call it a "pedalcycle", but that's no different from states calling it a "moped" or even a "moss-covered three-handled family gradunza". What matters legally is what comes after the word "is"; that's the definition. So pedals are not required. Furthermore, a stock Buddy 50 might edge above 30mph, but if they went "well over 30mph", I might not have bothered having mine derestricted (and it'd presumably go "well over 40mph" afterward, which it has not). I'll take your word that the horsepower isn't even close, but that's the only point that clearly supports your argument; it isn't the slam-dunk you seem to think it is.
Now, I'm not a lawyer either, but I scored better than most practicing lawyers did on the LSAT, I have two lawyers in my family (one in Chicago), and my uncle was a state legislator. I can easily get a professional opinion on this if you'd like. And that's what really matters: not my amateur analysis of the statute or yours, but what the courts say. Are there people who've been convicted (upheld on appeal) of improperly registering a Buddy 50 (or similar spec scooters) as a "motorized pedalcycle"? Are there people who've been acquitted based on the fact that their bike is almost compliant? If so and if not, then those are the precedents you should be citing.
I'm not a lawyer and I don't want to go to court to find out what you can 'get away' with. If they call it a "pedalcycle" that certainly implies it has pedals.
All I know is that it's a favorite pastime in Chicago to try to fool yourself into believing whatever you want to believe about the law, and an even more popular pastime to feel sorry for yourself when you get busted for it. That goes for scooterists and politicians, and I never feel sorry for either, because the RIGHT way to do things is right there in front of you all along.
Ignoring the law for a minute, riding that 50cc scooter in traffic in Chicago is absolutely no different (and possibly MORE dangerous) than riding any motorcycle, so why wouldn't you WANT to learn how to ride properly and learn the rules and get a license? It sounds like the OP took a MSF class, so i'm confused about why he wouldn't have just taken the license test at the end of it. In any case, he learned some basic skills which is more than a lot of people do, so that's good.
2strokebuzz: When news breaks, we put it under a tarp in the garage.
It is completely legal for a scooter to park in residential streets without a permit. So parking shouldnt be an issue. I use a U-Lock on my Roughhouse, havent had any trouble with it.
illnoise wrote:I'm not a lawyer and I don't want to go to court to find out what you can 'get away' with. If they call it a "pedalcycle" that certainly implies it has pedals.
And so does calling it a "moped", like so many other states do. But that's not how the law works.
It is completely legal for a scooter to park in residential streets without a permit. So parking shouldnt be an issue. I use a U-Lock on my Roughhouse, havent had any trouble with it. :D
Right! which is awesome! but again, ONLY if you have the city medallion/tag thing proving you live in the city.
2strokebuzz: When news breaks, we put it under a tarp in the garage.
JHScoot wrote:my masterlock street cuffs have not come in yet
Amazon Super Saver Shipping is not what it used to be
w00t
just checked Amazon and they should be here tomorrow
Amazon Updates is not what it used to be
Well the Masterlock Street Cuffs arrived and I have the scoots chained together, Agility and Blackjack. I am impressed with this security item thus far.
It does take some acclimation. The cuffs must be fully closed with a snick for the lock cylinder to depress and engage. If it's not the lock will not set. So, it takes a bit of effort to lock it all down, but not too unreasonable
Unlocking is the same deal. The cylinder key does not go fully into the lock, or even halfway. Just barely in it goes. It then takes some finesse to turn the lock open. Looking at it first instinct is to simply jam the key in far as it will go and twist 'n wriggle. This is not very effective. One must gently place the key in the cylinder and give it a light twist. Do it "right and it opens very easily. Not quite right and a few wriggles may take place, or an entire reset / try again.
I will take a couple pics when able for those interested. I have one cuff around a wheel spoke on my Agility, and one around the fork(s) of the BJ. I don't know if around the forks is effective, as forks can be removed and replaced. But the Buddy frame is well hidden and tight against the panels. Its too tight to slide even a cuff through.
Is cuffing or chaining to the center stands just as well as the forks, better, or don't do it?
Have fun with your new Buddy. Did you name it yet?
put 20 miles on him and he is sooo much fun !!!
